Political Crossfire Forums

[mathurin]

i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

[Shady]

mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

Hmm...I suppose the "correct" action would be to die rather then to pretend otherwises. However if God is as just as people claim, it would seem reasonable that he would accept you if you truly believed in him as opposed to the pretensions of following the other religion.

[Shady]

Now what would be interesting is if they forced a knife to the neck of your wife and children and forced you to convert to Islam or let them die. In that case it's not simply yourself that you are attempting to save but rather the lives of your family. Again, I'm no theologian but it seems reasonable to me that if you held true faith in God regardless of your outwards claims you would still be saved. But it is quite the interesting theological conundrum.

[melchizedek22]

Pat Robertson pretends to be Christian ,but gets on TV (Tax exempt)
and preachs right wing Republican Politics,does that count? :wink:

[Shady]

melchizedek22 wrote: Pat Robertson pretends to be Christian ,but gets on TV (Tax exempt)
and preachs right wing Republican Politics,does that count? :wink:

I'm not sure that's relevant. Regardless anyone that claims he can bench 500 pounds at 70 and has a direct channel to God is a bit looney.

[LetsGetReal]

I'd rather die...

[Shady]

LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

But would you sacrfice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates?

[cap'n queasy]

mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ.

[LostSoul3412]

LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

Agreed. To lose faith is to lose a part of life.

Shady wrote: But would you sacrifice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates?

This, however, would be the exception. I would sacrifice my life for those I love.

[LetsGetReal]

Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

But would you sacrfice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates? I live in the real world, not the imaginary sorry.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

LetsGetReal wrote: Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

But would you sacrfice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates? I live in the real world, not the imaginary sorry.

Yes, and in the real world we never have to make sacrifices for the ones we love.

[Shady]

LetsGetReal wrote: Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

But would you sacrfice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates? I live in the real world, not the imaginary sorry.

So you answered one hypothetical....but not the other?

[Enoch]

cap'n queasy wrote: mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ. mathurin raises an interesting point. I, too, had considered what the expressed conversion truly meant.

While not a Christian, and thus with a different set of spiritual beliefs, I find this to be a bizarre thing for the extremists to want. I could claim to be Muslim, but it would not be true. I am Wiccan, and nothing will change that. If a gun was held to my head or to the head of my loved ones, sure I would probably claim that I am converting. But, that would purely be words and not what my heart said.

So, does Christianity teach that words equal intent? Not trying to argue anything here, just curious. If a Christian claims to convert, but his or her heart is still Christian, does that make a difference?

[Babylon_Horuv]

LostSoul3412 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

Agreed. To lose faith is to lose a part of life.

Shady wrote: But would you sacrifice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates?

This, however, would be the exception. I would sacrifice my life for those I love.

yes, but would you sacrifice your faith?

[Babylon_Horuv]

cap'n queasy wrote: mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ.

Very good point, and, as is mentioned in the bible, one can never know when the tribulation has arrived. I am not a Christian, but it seems to me that if you truly beleive in Christian tenents, and you are not bringing torture upon your family or loved ones, that you would welcome the death as simply the journey neccessary to reach heaven. I don't mean to attack the faith of those who would prefer denying their god to dying, but it seems almost as if the terrorists are giving you a gift by offering you the opportunity to die for your faith, guaranteeing your entrance to heaven.

[LetsGetReal]

Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

But would you sacrfice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates? I live in the real world, not the imaginary sorry.

So you answered one hypothetical....but not the other? No, your question poses the responsibility on the person who decides whether to profess another faith and not the people who are doing the killing. This is a common tactic of the left, to accuse the people who are doing the right as partly wrong. And that is an imaginary world, a world created by the sympathizers of the wrong doers to show that its not all their fault. Thats why I won't answer it. :wink:

[LetsGetReal]

Enoch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ. mathurin raises an interesting point. I, too, had considered what the expressed conversion truly meant.

While not a Christian, and thus with a different set of spiritual beliefs, I find this to be a bizarre thing for the extremists to want. I could claim to be Muslim, but it would not be true. I am Wiccan, and nothing will change that. If a gun was held to my head or to the head of my loved ones, sure I would probably claim that I am converting. But, that would purely be words and not what my heart said.

So, does Christianity teach that words equal intent? Not trying to argue anything here, just curious. If a Christian claims to convert, but his or her heart is still Christian, does that make a difference? A girl in the columbine shooting was asked if she believed in god with a gun to her head. She said yes and the killer stated, "well i'll send you to meet him."(or something like that) I'd take that is a great way to profess ones faith.

[Enoch]

LetsGetReal wrote: Enoch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ. mathurin raises an interesting point. I, too, had considered what the expressed conversion truly meant.

While not a Christian, and thus with a different set of spiritual beliefs, I find this to be a bizarre thing for the extremists to want. I could claim to be Muslim, but it would not be true. I am Wiccan, and nothing will change that. If a gun was held to my head or to the head of my loved ones, sure I would probably claim that I am converting. But, that would purely be words and not what my heart said.

So, does Christianity teach that words equal intent? Not trying to argue anything here, just curious. If a Christian claims to convert, but his or her heart is still Christian, does that make a difference? A girl in the columbine shooting was asked if she believed in god with a gun to her head. She said yes and the killer stated, "well i'll send you to meet him."(or something like that) I'd take that is a great way to profess ones faith. Interesting, but doesn't answer my question.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

LetsGetReal wrote: Enoch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: mathurin wrote: i was thinking specifically about some news guys who were kidnapped and forced to convert to islam, i dont know the details, but, so long as one is not required to expressly renounce christianity, is it "kosher" (wrong word i know) to read up on and go through the motions of adopting islam to keep a knife away from your neck


a similar situation was very vaguely reported, where someone was forced to pray or die in an islamic country, since this action did not mean renouncing christ, or indeed even praying to allah, as who knows whom you are praying too in your mind



i am just wondering how much wiggle room there is for the traveler who doesnt wish to die. not that i intend to go to that region myself

If that was happening all over the world it would be the tribulation.
I wouldn't deny Christ. mathurin raises an interesting point. I, too, had considered what the expressed conversion truly meant.

While not a Christian, and thus with a different set of spiritual beliefs, I find this to be a bizarre thing for the extremists to want. I could claim to be Muslim, but it would not be true. I am Wiccan, and nothing will change that. If a gun was held to my head or to the head of my loved ones, sure I would probably claim that I am converting. But, that would purely be words and not what my heart said.

So, does Christianity teach that words equal intent? Not trying to argue anything here, just curious. If a Christian claims to convert, but his or her heart is still Christian, does that make a difference? A girl in the columbine shooting was asked if she believed in god with a gun to her head. She said yes and the killer stated, "well i'll send you to meet him."(or something like that) I'd take that is a great way to profess ones faith.

While initial rumors did claim that teenager Cassie Bernall was shot after professing faith in God, she did not say this. The official investigation attributes the quote to another student, a survivor of the shootings. Eyewitness accounts say that this exchange did not take place.

Just another example that in the minds of many people, myth is often stronger than reality.

[Muslima]

As a Muslim, I do condemn that incident. Religions come through convincing not knives on your throat.

If you are really sure that your religion is the right one for you, then don't change it, even if you die.

There is this story that happened during one of the paroah`s lives (I am not sure if it is mentioned in the quran), where he killed three or four boys in front of their mother by throwing them in a boiling liquid, just to make her confess that the paroah was God. She refused and died the same way her children died. She was promised the best of the best heaven from God.