Political Crossfire Forums

learn to swim · Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:22 am Post subject:

foadi wrote: learn to swim wrote: If you don't think some sawed off loud mouthed Drill in the US Army doesn't enjoy smoking noobies to the point of puking or passing out then you must not understand why we are such a great military.

Our military does all the same things my friend.
Nonsense. Most people in the US military are there because they signed up voluntarily. That is not the case in Russia.

Nonsense? Once you join you are in my friend. voluntary or not - you get put through the paces.

You guys believe wht you want. there is a reason why our fine men and women of the US military are so squared away and can handl;e huge amounts of pressure. It isn't because they were "told" to handle it. they trained to handle it.

The russian army is the same. I cannot speak first hand but watching that video doesn't "surprise me".

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

foadi wrote: You guys do realize that most of those guys were conscripted and didn't chose to be there, right?

:flwr: I love your avatar. :wink:

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

learn to swim wrote: If you don't think some sawed off loud mouthed Drill in the US Army doesn't enjoy smoking noobies to the point of puking or passing out then you must not understand why we are such a great military.

Our military does all the same things my friend. Maybe not as crude and as disorganised but you will have gotten your ass beat down and your mind completely spent before you get to be - Army or Marine Infantry.

It is the only way they know you have a chance at holding up in real life stress that you will see on a battlefield.

Then why so many of them come back from the war totally screwed up?

P.S. I do understand they want their soldier to be strong...

learn to swim · Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:44 am Post subject:

Claudia Schiffer wrote: learn to swim wrote: If you don't think some sawed off loud mouthed Drill in the US Army doesn't enjoy smoking noobies to the point of puking or passing out then you must not understand why we are such a great military.

Our military does all the same things my friend. Maybe not as crude and as disorganised but you will have gotten your ass beat down and your mind completely spent before you get to be - Army or Marine Infantry.

It is the only way they know you have a chance at holding up in real life stress that you will see on a battlefield.

Then why so many of them come back from the war totally screwed up?

P.S. I do understand they want their soldier to be strong...

The better point is they made it back home alive. That isn't by accident.

As for being screwed up - imagine being in a war and then I guess you have your answer. No mental conditioning can prepare a man to deal with the horrors of war - it can only prepare him to stay alive and get his ass and his buddies ass back home safe. I wold argue that the ones that come back "screwed up" is a small amount. The simulated training both physical and mental gets you pretty damn prepared for what your job will be.

ramashkagromik · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 233 Location: Kiev

learn to swim wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: learn to swim wrote: If you don't think some sawed off loud mouthed Drill in the US Army doesn't enjoy smoking noobies to the point of puking or passing out then you must not understand why we are such a great military.

Our military does all the same things my friend. Maybe not as crude and as disorganised but you will have gotten your ass beat down and your mind completely spent before you get to be - Army or Marine Infantry.

It is the only way they know you have a chance at holding up in real life stress that you will see on a battlefield.

Then why so many of them come back from the war totally screwed up?

P.S. I do understand they want their soldier to be strong...

The better point is they made it back home alive. That isn't by accident.

As for being screwed up - imagine being in a war and then I guess you have your answer. No mental conditioning can prepare a man to deal with the horrors of war - it can only prepare him to stay alive and get his ass and his buddies ass back home safe. I wold argue that the ones that come back "screwed up" is a small amount. The simulated training both physical and mental gets you pretty damn prepared for what your job will be.

In US military you only struggle for 3 month, un Russian for at least 12. And besides, TRUST ME ON THIS, US military is not as cruel and as serious as the RUssian military.
Have you seen russian special force in action (AMON) they are, nicely speaking, a bunch of fuking angry wolfs that will bite your head of if you get them mad. These guys are inhuman, they are fuking crz.

Watch this, they just beat an innocent guy, this hapnes often, they just wanted him to say that AMON is the best in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N8zPBLCB-4

antonio62 · Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:05 am Post subject:

foadi wrote: You guys do realize that most of those guys were conscripted and didn't chose to be there, right?

Which makes it wrong. That is the way to get a well trained army but when they are conscripted they should not be trained like that. A consricpted army shouldn't be trained much to be honest its not a good idea. Here in lies the reason consripted amrys are not of even close to the quality an elite army is.

Grond · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 46

ramashkagromik wrote:
In US military you only struggle for 3 month, un Russian for at least 12. And besides, TRUST ME ON THIS, US military is not as cruel and as serious as the RUssian military.

-??????!!!!!!

ramashkagromik wrote:
Have you seen russian special force in action (AMON) they are, nicely speaking, a bunch of fuking angry wolfs that will bite your head of if you get them mad. These guys are inhuman, they are fuking crz.

Watch this, they just beat an innocent guy, this hapnes often, they just wanted him to say that AMON is the best in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N8zPBLCB-4

Bud,

first of all, the correct name of Russian Special Units of Police is OMON i.e. Otryad Militsii Osobogo Naznacheniya.
Second : who are you to teach forum members 'which army (or police uinits) is best and which army is worst'??? Did you carry any military service in Russian or American armies? I bet, no. Any weak bookworm may say ugly words about Army but this is just laughable :wink:

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

learn to swim wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: learn to swim wrote: If you don't think some sawed off loud mouthed Drill in the US Army doesn't enjoy smoking noobies to the point of puking or passing out then you must not understand why we are such a great military.

Our military does all the same things my friend. Maybe not as crude and as disorganised but you will have gotten your ass beat down and your mind completely spent before you get to be - Army or Marine Infantry.

It is the only way they know you have a chance at holding up in real life stress that you will see on a battlefield.

Then why so many of them come back from the war totally screwed up?

P.S. I do understand they want their soldier to be strong...

The better point is they made it back home alive. That isn't by accident.

As for being screwed up - imagine being in a war and then I guess you have your answer. No mental conditioning can prepare a man to deal with the horrors of war - it can only prepare him to stay alive and get his ass and his buddies ass back home safe. I wold argue that the ones that come back "screwed up" is a small amount. The simulated training both physical and mental gets you pretty damn prepared for what your job will be.

Agreed, although i think the numbers might be higher.

learn to swim · Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:08 am Post subject:

ramashkagromik wrote:
In US military you only struggle for 3 month, un Russian for at least 12. And besides, TRUST ME ON THIS, US military is not as cruel and as serious as the RUssian military.
Have you seen russian special force in action (AMON) they are, nicely speaking, a bunch of fuking angry wolfs that will bite your head of if you get them mad. These guys are inhuman, they are fuking crz.

Watch this, they just beat an innocent guy, this hapnes often, they just wanted him to say that AMON is the best in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N8zPBLCB-4

Yeah- :roll:

Research:

Navy Seals
Delta Force

All I can say is be glad you have a tough military. Be gald there are peole that protect you that put up with that crap - when the $hit hits the fan they are the ones that will take care fo business.

ramashkagromik · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 233 Location: Kiev

Grond wrote: ramashkagromik wrote:
In US military you only struggle for 3 month, un Russian for at least 12. And besides, TRUST ME ON THIS, US military is not as cruel and as serious as the RUssian military.

-??????!!!!!!

ramashkagromik wrote:
Have you seen russian special force in action (AMON) they are, nicely speaking, a bunch of fuking angry wolfs that will bite your head of if you get them mad. These guys are inhuman, they are fuking crz.

Watch this, they just beat an innocent guy, this hapnes often, they just wanted him to say that AMON is the best in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N8zPBLCB-4

Bud,

first of all, the correct name of Russian Special Units of Police is OMON i.e. Otryad Militsii Osobogo Naznacheniya.
Second : who are you to teach forum members 'which army (or police uinits) is best and which army is worst'??? Did you carry any military service in Russian or American armies? I bet, no. Any weak bookworm may say ugly words about Army but this is just laughable :wink:

don't be cheap, and correct my typing, i got a lot to type so i don't mind spellcheking. and im not telling you that omon is best, im telling you that they are beast, they are inhuman, even offduty. No i wasn't in the Ukrainian military (not russian), but i knew member of omon and they weren't nice people. They were aggresive with their wifes and could not live a normal life. That is the problem. I do not dismiss myself as a bookworm, but i'll tell you this: Its the bookwarms that run the military and not dogs like you that will blindly die on command. These guys were filming this, they were doing it for fun. THEY only did BODY SHOTS so that the officers would not notice the beating and squeeling is always out of question for a true soldier. Those guys are maniacs, they are the ones that will take a bat and hit a pregnant woman's face when they are drunk. I had experience with those kind of people, they are called "biki" in russian (bulls). They drink vodka and drive a tractor basicaly, they beat up random college students for fun, they should all burn, and you, Grond, from no country, is no better protecting them. :!:

Grond · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 46

ramashkagromik wrote:
don't be cheap, and correct my typing, i got a lot to type so i don't mind spellcheking. and im not telling you that omon is best, im telling you that they are beast, they are inhuman, even offduty. No i wasn't in the Ukrainian military (not russian), but i knew member of omon and they weren't nice people. They were aggresive with their wifes and could not live a normal life. That is the problem.

Cease your baseless verbal diarrhoea, please :-D :wink: I also know members of local OMON and they are normal humans, all have families.

ramashkagromik wrote:
Those guys are maniacs, they are the ones that will take a bat and hit a pregnant woman's face when they are drunk. I had experience with those kind of people, they are called "biki" in russian (bulls). They drink vodka and drive a tractor basicaly, they beat up random college students for fun, they should all burn, and you, Grond, from no country, is no better protecting them. :!:

Mate, the slang term "byki" (not 'biki') stands for street hooligans or group of criminals. You've just made another one misspelling. So, what country are you from, frankly? :P

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

I don't see what the big deal is. I was expecting something terrible.

That's how you toughen up a bunch of Kitty Cats. There's really no other way to do it.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: They drink vodka and drive a tractor basicaly, they beat up random college students for fun

Rednecks? :lol:

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

cap'n queasy wrote: I don't see what the big deal is. I was expecting something terrible.

That's how you toughen up a bunch of Kitty Cats. There's really no other way to do it.

Speaking like a true military...

SpartanPhalanx · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2062 Location: Montreal

learn to swim wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: One day in the battle field, these soldiers will turn around at the first chance they get and shout their trainers...That's what i would do...There's no need to beat these guys to bond with them, they should teach them that on the battle field all they have is each other, and that's more than enough to bond if you ask me...

I know they are all body shots but it's little too much and what bug's me is that they are doing it for fun, that why they have a camera.

If a was in that group I'd tell the group next time they come in, we get them and do a little beating of our own...hell! I'd get ride of them, it's late at night, no one would know, and then we can bound.

:wink:

Yeah - telling guys to bond works well. :roll:

You have to make them bond. Going through that crap together makes you bond. You learn how to support each other and how to keep each other motivated. You learn that if you do not get up the whole group will be punished.

You don't teach stuff like that by word of mouth.

I don't think the soldiers in the U.S or Britain who fought the Nazis in WWII had anything like the treatment seen here ..... yet they managed to fight and die just the same as everyone else, and still manage to defeat the Nazis.

There are many ways to teach young recruits mental toughness . Physical violence of the sort seen here may work for some, but you can get a whole lot more out of young men by challenging them mentally.

If you look at some of the toughest training methods in the world employed by the British Royal Marines or the SAS, the kind of mental toughness they have is achieved by means other than physical violence.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

antonio62 · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

The allied soldiers in WW2 were very poor quality. Most didn't evn fire there gun and those that did wouldn't fire at the enemy. About 25% p*ssed or sh*tted themselves during battle.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

antonio62 wrote: The allied soldiers in WW2 were very poor quality. Most didn't evn fire there gun and those that did wouldn't fire at the enemy. About 25% p*ssed or sh*tted themselves during battle.

Many of them were untrained or undertrained due to the "repple-depple" resupply system in place.

sandrodz · Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 22 Location: Budapest

come on that's nothing horrible there... just a bunch of soldiers doing what they have to... its army, its camping for kids or somthin.

Grond · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 46

SpartanPhalanx wrote: There are many ways to teach young recruits mental toughness . Physical violence of the sort seen here may work for some, but you can get a whole lot more out of young men by challenging them mentally.

If you look at some of the toughest training methods in the world employed by the British Royal Marines or the SAS, the kind of mental toughness they have is achieved by means other than physical violence.
Sorry, I don't buy it.

What 'mentally toughest training methods, other than physical violence' did you mean? Could you back your statements by more specific clarifications?

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject:

If you're going for the SAS, you're already a trained soldier, so officers and NCOs don't need to kick the s**t out you to make themselves obeyed. I don't know what it's like generally, but I'm told the army doesn't like recruiting people with extensive martial arts experiance. Makes me wonder why that is the case.....