Political Crossfire Forums

[Sixgun_Symphony]

I was looking at the political party subforums here and I did not see any political parties that I recognize as European. Well except for "radical" and "anarchist" which could be US, European, or anywhere.

I did not see Tory listed... Maybe I am just not seeing it?

[nicksinif]

social democratic party. thats all you need to know.

[DSwain]

You'd be best asking about individual countries in Europe really

[thundertaker]

Sixgun_Symphony wrote: I was looking at the political party subforums here and I did not see any political parties that I recognize as European. Well except for "radical" and "anarchist" which could be US, European, or anywhere.

I did not see Tory listed... Maybe I am just not seeing it?

Europe is not one country, so each one has it's own political parties. 'Tory' is a nickname for the Conservative party, which is true in Canada as it is in Britain.
In Britain, the main parties are the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, with the Liberal-Democrats a significant third party, along with several other peripheral parties such as UKIP and the BNP (which aren't represented in the main legislature) and Nationalist parties such as Plaid Cymru (Wales) Scottish National Party, as well as all the parties in Northern Ireland all of which have members represented in Parliament.........

[Andromedos]

Well, actually, there are European political parties, Thunder. National parties from EU member nations are members of party alliances for the European parliament. For example, there are the European People's Party (christian democrats and conservatives), or the European greens.
Also, there are some parties that only operate on the European level, like the federalist 'Europe United' party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_parties

[MoscowMatt]

Hungary is currently governed by the 'lying b*****d's party'!!! :(

Still recent crushing local election defeats could soon change that! :-D :tu:

[DSwain]

Andromedos wrote: Well, actually, there are European political parties, Thunder. National parties from EU member nations are members of party alliances for the European parliament. For example, there are the European People's Party (christian democrats and conservatives), or the European greens.
Also, there are some parties that only operate on the European level, like the federalist 'Europe United' party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_parties

But there is no opportunity to cast direct votes for these parties - in fact, 'blocs' is a far more accurate word to use. Europe is not a country so there are no 'European' political parties. As for 'Europe United' - nope, never seen them on a ballot paper.

[Andromedos]

Well, you got a point there, but you could also see the national parties as local chapters of the European parties. The local chapter leaders then elect the national party leaders, so to speak, since the parties/blocks are organised on the Union level. But yeah, it's still a sort of in- between.

'Europe United' is a relative young party, they have not yet taken part in any of the European parliament elections. I think they plan to start run it's candidates in the 2009 election. Enough time to check their program and candidates out in detail.

[DSwain]

Andromedos wrote: Well, you got a point there, but you could also see the national parties as local chapters of the European parties. The local chapter leaders then elect the national party leaders, so to speak, since the parties/blocks are organised on the Union level. But yeah, it's still a sort of in- between.

'Europe United' is a relative young party, they have not yet taken part in any of the European parliament elections. I think they plan to start run it's candidates in the 2009 election. Enough time to check their program and candidates out in detail.

No, I'm sorry but IMO you're totally wrong. I do see where you're coming from, however - a position where you view Europe as a united nation; this is not a vision I share with you! National political parties are not 'local chapters' of European parties and that is frankly a rather patronising attitude to take. The British Conservative Party and the British Labour Party invite my support, not the EPP or the Socialist bloc; I vote on the platforms of British parties, not of those from other nations.

The purpose of the blocs at the EP is to try to effect some form of workability at the bun-fight that is Brussels/Strasbourg. That said, 'Europe United' will be amusing to observe; they'll probably be in receipt of the greatest amount of Euro-dosh per voter of any party in the EU.

[Andromedos]

DSwain wrote:

No, I'm sorry but IMO you're totally wrong. I do see where you're coming from, however - a position where you view Europe as a united nation; this is not a vision I share with you! National political parties are not 'local chapters' of European parties and that is frankly a rather patronising attitude to take. The British Conservative Party and the British Labour Party invite my support, not the EPP or the Socialist bloc; I vote on the platforms of British parties, not of those from other nations.

Actually, I realise that Europe is far from a united nation, and not even a true confederation. The word national and local was meant for the purpose of comparisson. Maybe my choice of words was not ideal.

But yes, I support further European integration. What we currently have in Brussels is in large parts undemocratic, and overblown. And a simple free market zone would make it more difficult to rally our strenght on the world stage. Together as a Union, the nations of Europe can be a force to be reconed with. Also, having traveled a lot in Europe, and having lived with host families in both France and Britain, I feel that I have more in common with a fellow social democrat/green from France or the Netherlands, than for examplewith a conservative from Bavaria, or a Neo- Nazi bastard from Saxony, despite these people being my countrymen.

[DSwain]

Andromedos wrote: DSwain wrote:

No, I'm sorry but IMO you're totally wrong. I do see where you're coming from, however - a position where you view Europe as a united nation; this is not a vision I share with you! National political parties are not 'local chapters' of European parties and that is frankly a rather patronising attitude to take. The British Conservative Party and the British Labour Party invite my support, not the EPP or the Socialist bloc; I vote on the platforms of British parties, not of those from other nations.

Actually, I realise that Europe is far from a united nation, and not even a true confederation. The word national and local was meant for the purpose of comparisson. Maybe my choice of words was not ideal.

But yes, I support further European integration. What we currently have in Brussels is in large parts undemocratic, and overblown. And a simple free market zone would make it more difficult to rally our strenght on the world stage. Together as a Union, the nations of Europe can be a force to be reconed with. Also, having traveled a lot in Europe, and having lived with host families in both France and Britain, I feel that I have more in common with a fellow social democrat/green from France or the Netherlands, than for examplewith a conservative from Bavaria, or a Neo- Nazi bastard from Saxony, despite these people being my countrymen.

Well, I certainly agree with you on the latter point. But the ties that bind a nation are stronger than mere politics or economics and I fear that Europe forgets this.

How further should Europe be integrated, Andromedos?

[Andromedos]

I can understand that for many people, especially British, the national ties are still very strong. It's somewhat different here in Germany, where patriotism for our nation does normally not run very deep (soccer games being an exception :? ).

Concerning the EU, I'm not entirely sure myself. It is a tricky question. Maybe we could open a topic, where the community can try to design a more integrated European Federation(EF).

I do not think that Europe should yet be integrated as much as the United States are. Historical differences still run too strong for this. A United States of Europe would be a project that maybe our grandschildren could tackel, if everything runs alright.
Still, the EU model seems to have a future, considering how similar models are adopted around the world (AU, ASEAN, Mescuro).

The future EU or EF should have an executive branch that is more accountable to the citizens. I'd suggest a President as a figurehead, elected directly by the people (I do realize it will be difficult to choose candidates). Similar to the Queen of England, or the president of Germany, the european president would mainly be a figurehead and moral authority, but would have some powers like delaying the impletion of new laws. Maybe he also has to accept the new government. I'm not too sure yet.
The government would be headed by a prime commisoner/ minister/chancellor/whatever title, who would be elected by the bi-chamber legislature.
The European assembly would have representatives diretly elected by the people, according to the size of the population. The national assembly would consist of senators appointed by the member nations' governments. Not sure yet if the senators should be appointed according to population, or if the numbers should be equal for each nation. Every member nations' head of government is also a senator on the national assembly.
The european surpremce court would complete the system.

This EU would have open borders between member nations, and most likely a common currency. A European army would exist, but it would be limited in size, similar to the planned EU fast reaction force. A european command structure would be established. Each member nation could also have own armed forces, most likely smaller that todays national armed forces, who would support the federal troops in times of crisis. Not sure how much equipment would need to be standarised, since Europe's armies already follow NATO guidelines. The EF also would remain a member of NATO. Maybe a common coastguard should also be established.

More to come later.