Political Crossfire Forums

[programmusic]

Saracen wrote:

You seem to know very little about Palestine. It was the Israelis who attacked after they accepted the resolution.

MYTH

“The Jews started the first war with the Arabs.”

FACT

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."11


Saracen wrote:
The idea that it has been inter-regulated into a minority is racist.


MYTH

"Jews stole Arab land."
FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote: nuclear holocaust is a nice thing to keep in your bag of tricks.


it keeps people in check.



Nothing like having Brute Force & Coercion as the mantra for a nation, eh?

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote: nuclear holocaust is a nice thing to keep in your bag of tricks.


it keeps people in check.



Nothing like having Brute Force & Coercion as the mantra for a nation, eh?


oh boy aren't you witty.



who knew the israeli flag had an ICBM on it and their mantra was "BRUTE FORCE AND COERCION"



you should do stand up.

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote: fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote: nuclear holocaust is a nice thing to keep in your bag of tricks.


it keeps people in check.



Nothing like having Brute Force & Coercion as the mantra for a nation, eh?


oh boy aren't you witty.


In that case you must be ironical - By using the holocaust in the balance of a threat is on par with the status quo who of those who support such things as Israel's 'Apartheid Wall', which too is an ironic symbol of the tyranny that the jews suffered from in times past, that Israel now use as a 'weapon' of their own - note the same reasoning inre; defense to the state, et al.

[The Comrade]

by holocaust i suppose you mean the jewish one?


in which case how is that

A) ironic
B)pertinent to this discussion

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote: by holocaust i suppose you mean the jewish one?


in which case how is that

A) ironic

For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

Don't you find it ironic that those who suffer from tyranny & oppression & occupation, go onto to dispense those very same evils onto others?

Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.

Would you not agree, that this is ironic ?

The Comrade wrote: B)pertinent to this discussion

It was meant as an aside

[fiction416]

programmusic wrote: Saracen wrote:

You seem to know very little about Palestine. It was the Israelis who attacked after they accepted the resolution.

MYTH

“The Jews started the first war with the Arabs.”

FACT

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."11


Saracen wrote:
The idea that it has been inter-regulated into a minority is racist.


MYTH

"Jews stole Arab land."
FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30

I'm sorry, but do you have a link/source for your "facts"?

[Pareve]

programmusic wrote: Saracen wrote:

You seem to know very little about Palestine. It was the Israelis who attacked after they accepted the resolution.

MYTH

“The Jews started the first war with the Arabs.”

FACT

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."11


Saracen wrote:
The idea that it has been inter-regulated into a minority is racist.


MYTH

"Jews stole Arab land."
FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30

I have this book at home!
This is from The Case for Israel, right?

[Pareve]

fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote: by holocaust i suppose you mean the jewish one?


in which case how is that

A) ironic

For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

Don't you find it ironic that those who suffer from tyranny & oppression & occupation, go onto to dispense those very same evils onto others?

Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.

Would you not agree, that this is ironic ?

The Comrade wrote: B)pertinent to this discussion

It was meant as an aside

Oooh, let's totally pull the Holocaust Card! Nothing else could possibly lead to a more civil discussion!
/Sarcasm.

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

it's only ironic because of the word 'holocaust'



Quote: Don't you find it ironic that those who suffer from tyranny & oppression & occupation, go onto to dispense those very same evils onto others?

not really

Quote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warswa.

it hasn't annexed land since the golan heights.

you have 100% no idea why those palestinians were imprisoned.

Quote: Would you not agree ?

no

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote: fiction416 wrote: For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

it's only ironic because of the word 'holocaust'

which you used


The Comrade wrote: Quote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warswa.

it hasn't annexed land since the golan heights.

Palestinians: Israel hands out land confiscation notices

The Comrade wrote: you have 100% no idea why those palestinians were imprisoned.


lol... okay, edify me then, why are they imprisoned?

[Pareve]

Mahmoud Abbas is like Hitler. GO!

(I am totally joking in the above statement. I just think that comparing the major players in this conflict to Fascists or Nazis is inaccurate and reactionary. It also definitely doesn't build any bridges.)

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote: fiction416 wrote: For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

it's only ironic because of the word 'holocaust'

which you used


The Comrade wrote: Quote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warswa.

it hasn't annexed land since the golan heights.

Palestinians: Israel hands out land confiscation notices

The Comrade wrote: you have 100% no idea why those palestinians were imprisoned.


lol... okay, edify me then, why are they imprisoned?

the jordan valley is in the west bank which was largely controlled by israel until hamas came into power.

i don't know why they were imprisoned and neither do you LOLOLOLOLO ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL LMAO LMAO LMAO LOL I LUV INTERNET SLANG LOLOL

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote:

the jordan valley is in the west bank which was largely controlled by israel until hamas came into power.



So you are somewhat familiar with the Israeli occupation then, good.



The Comrade wrote: i don't know why they were imprisoned and neither do you LOLOLOLOLO ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL LMAO LMAO LMAO LOL I LUV INTERNET SLANG LOLOL

Then you admit your ignorance.

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote:

the jordan valley is in the west bank which was largely controlled by israel until hamas came into power.



So you are somewhat familiar with the Israeli occupation then, good.



The Comrade wrote: i don't know why they were imprisoned and neither do you LOLOLOLOLO ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL LMAO LMAO LMAO LOL I LUV INTERNET SLANG LOLOL

Then you admit your ignorance.


then please enlighten me. why are they imprisoned?


i would like the names,reasons, charges, and where they were arrested for every single palestinian prisoner please.

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote:

then please enlighten me. why are they imprisoned?


i would like the names,reasons, charges, and where they were arrested for every single palestinian prisoner please.


I never said the were imprisoned, you did.

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.


you never mentioend palestinians being imprisoned?

[fiction416]

The Comrade wrote: fiction416 wrote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.


you never mentioend palestinians being imprisoned?



BURN


Ha, seems I did - And yes, this really is the case. The 'Wall' is just one example of how Israel imprisons Palestinians. There are countless others, such as the occupation, check points, racist laws, etc.. Look at pressent day Gaza & tell me people there are not imprisoned with Israel controling all border crossings & the flow of goods, medicines, etc.

You wanted a list.. hmm, well, I'm sure i could dig something up. But really is that necessary to establish the word imprisoned is appropriate?

[superskippy]

Quote: The idea that it has been inter-regulated into a minority is racist.

We havent regulated the population Saracen.

Quote: Nothing like having Brute Force & Coercion as the mantra for a nation, eh?

Our nuclear mantra would be more like "You defeat us, and we will destroy you."

Quote: For a supporter of the only Jewish state to trumpet threats of a nuclear holocaust, touches on an irony that is rather bitter, in lieu of the holocaust the Jews suffered in WW2

No one is trumpeting threats, we have stated what will occur if combined Arab arms do someday defeat the IDF and march on Israel. It is our last ditch weapon that will ensure a conclusion on our terms, and yes it is a weapon of annihilation.

Also your comparison between our nuclear doctrine and the holocaust simply doesnt make a connection, they are two completely distinct things.

Quote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.

The Gaza Barrier is built soley upon the Negev and the West Bank barrier dips in to the West Bank only sporadically and not in great depth and are neccistated by large Israeli concentrations and the road and entrance junctions.

The only argument that can be made is that we have no right to let the walls dip into the West Bank, which can be argued either way but the walls themselves are in violation of no law and offer an excellent defence.

[The Comrade]

fiction416 wrote: The Comrade wrote: fiction416 wrote: Further Irony, is that Israel has errected a wall, which it continues to build and annex land, illegally, in turn imprissoning Palestinians, cutting them off from their land - which easily serves as a reminder of the wall in Jewsih Ghetto in Warsaw.


you never mentioend palestinians being imprisoned?



BURN


Ha, seems I did - And yes, this really is the case. The 'Wall' is just one example of how Israel imprisons Palestinians. There are countless others, such as the occupation, check points, racist laws, etc.. Look at pressent day Gaza & tell me people there are not imprisoned with Israel controling all border crossings & the flow of goods, medicines, etc.

You wanted a list.. hmm, well, I'm sure i could dig something up. But really is that necessary to establish the word imprisoned is appropriate?

raffah gets quite a few goods in. the border with israel is hardly the only way in.

and yes i qill require a list.