Political Crossfire Forums

[britboy]

Well I have read a lot of people talking about trying shooting .. so I went along to a local rifle club (yep, here in the UK), and shot a load of .22 rounds at a target 25 yards away.

Here are my impressions

1) The safety is wacky over the top. I mean, the bullet must be about 2 mm wide, yet the guy was so over the top with 'the weapon is always loaded, even when it's empty'. Blah blah blah unless I got shot in the head or heart I don't believe a .22 is gonna do jack.

2) When I left I had to swear to them I hadn't stolen any ammo -- which seemed a little freaky.

3) Right .. the sport. JESUS it is difficult. It reminds me of the sport of snooker, just relax relax relax realx breath out, squeeze trigger, bang .. it's not even on the card!

4) The card was about 8cm by 10cm, 25 yards away. IN the centre the target circle was about the size of, er, a golf ball circumferance.

5) Bloody hell it's still difficult. I will never, ever be a sniper.

6) OK it's getting frustrating now the shots are all over the shop. The guy is telling me to take the shot when breathing out, but I'm convinced I do better if I hold my breath


Overall conclusions, a very difficult sport. In most sports if you don't do well you can try 10% harder and force a result (like football if you are doing badly just hurt the opposition a bit and they give you some space). In shooting it's like, I guess, darts (do you play that over in the states?).

I thought the safety was overkill, you had to check the barrel was empty 3 DIFFERENT TIMES and then SHOW THE INSTRUCTOR it was empty before you walked away from the rifle. Seemed a bit silly to me. God if the rifle jammed or the barrel was still full when I showed it to him I think he'd have shat his pants :lol: :lol:

It was very, very difficult. The hardest sport to initially pick up I can remember (and I've tried virtually everything!)

And finally, there was virtually no kick on the gun.

So there you go. Not my cup of tea for a sport I prefer to be able to vent my anger and get some results from it (if that makes sense) so something a bit more physical. COMING SOON -- Britboy tries clay pigeon shooting for the first time!

[Sixgun_Symphony]

You always emphasize the safety rules with newbies.

Sight picture, breathing... you are learning! :)

Give it some time and you will be ready for more challenges. Try one of the muzzleloading firearms clubs in Britain. They have a website for a muzzle loading firearms association in the UK.

[lilwolf]

First off lets think about a few of the things you said here:

1. Different weapons even if they are a .22 have different types of safeties and operate differently.
2. You always consider a gun of any kind "LOADED" even if you know it is empty. That is common sense logic. A.22 can kill you just as any gun can.
3. Because of the legal ramifications the UK has imposed upon your clubs they have to ask, and the way the UK goes about it if you have a bullet you can go to jail. BS logic
4. There is a lot more to shooting a rifle than there appears if you want to do it with any accuracy. The breath and relax is the way you retain your aim and balance on the weapon .if you hold your breath you get shaky and if you jerk the trigger instead of a solid steady squeeze you miss.
5. No one ver said shooting a rifle is easy. Being a sniper is an all together dofferent thing totally.
6. That is the standard size target that you shoot at. Nothing odd there. I have seen people shoot beer bottle caps at 50 meters and be dead on (scope is used) the target.
7. He is right that when you are slowly letting the air out you do the gentle squeeze on the trigger and bingo you hit the target. The entire thing is breathing and control of the rifle.

It is a difficult sport and it takes a great deal of practice as done any sport to be any good. I compete here on a state and local level and it is never easy. safety is something that you never take for granted after all it is a weapon. You always make sure it is cleared before you step away. That is good safety. If the barrel had jammed due to a misfire (not that common with .22's) there are ways to clear it right away and safely.
A .22 has no kick per say and that is great for small bore shooting. Hell, my girlfriend started on a .22 and worked her way up to a Krag .45-70. Now she loves shooting everything but the cannon rifle (.45-70).

All in all I ma pleased that you went out and shot. That says a lot about having an open mnd..I will wait to see how you did with a shotgun... :-D :-D

[Green]

britboy wrote: Well I have read a lot of people talking about trying shooting .. so I went along to a local rifle club (yep, here in the UK), and shot a load of .22 rounds at a target 25 yards away.

Here are my impressions

1) The safety is wacky over the top. I mean, the bullet must be about 2 mm wide, yet the guy was so over the top with 'the weapon is always loaded, even when it's empty'. Blah blah blah unless I got shot in the head or heart I don't believe a .22 is gonna do jack.

2) When I left I had to swear to them I hadn't stolen any ammo -- which seemed a little freaky.

3) Right .. the sport. JESUS it is difficult. It reminds me of the sport of snooker, just relax relax relax realx breath out, squeeze trigger, bang .. it's not even on the card!

4) The card was about 8cm by 10cm, 25 yards away. IN the centre the target circle was about the size of, er, a golf ball circumferance.

5) Bloody hell it's still difficult. I will never, ever be a sniper.

6) OK it's getting frustrating now the shots are all over the shop. The guy is telling me to take the shot when breathing out, but I'm convinced I do better if I hold my breath


Overall conclusions, a very difficult sport. In most sports if you don't do well you can try 10% harder and force a result (like football if you are doing badly just hurt the opposition a bit and they give you some space). In shooting it's like, I guess, darts (do you play that over in the states?).

I thought the safety was overkill, you had to check the barrel was empty 3 DIFFERENT TIMES and then SHOW THE INSTRUCTOR it was empty before you walked away from the rifle. Seemed a bit silly to me. God if the rifle jammed or the barrel was still full when I showed it to him I think he'd have shat his pants :lol: :lol:

It was very, very difficult. The hardest sport to initially pick up I can remember (and I've tried virtually everything!)

And finally, there was virtually no kick on the gun.

So there you go. Not my cup of tea for a sport I prefer to be able to vent my anger and get some results from it (if that makes sense) so something a bit more physical. COMING SOON -- Britboy tries clay pigeon shooting for the first time!

I first used a 22 for targets and when I tried a 410 for clay pigeons, I made a funny dance. I was surprised for the first time, but I got used to the recoil.

Oh, and shooting clays are as hard as hell untill you practice a lot. Trust me.

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Britboy, you may want to check this out.

http://www.mlagb.com/

[Jefferson]

britboy wrote: Well I have read a lot of people talking about trying shooting .. so I went along to a local rifle club (yep, here in the UK), and shot a load of .22 rounds at a target 25 yards away.

Here are my impressions


Yup. To all the anti-gunners who accuse me of being a 'nut', manhood issues, paranoid, death dealer, etc. You should read this orginal post.

I target shoot. Shooting starts at 300 (meters/yeards) without optics. It is an incredibly difficult mental and physical task. To acomplish this I have to train with yoga, weights, and running. At the firing line I have to make my body hold a rifle in a painful position and control my breathing. Then time the trigger pull between heart beats. Then I have to prepare the equipment which is an incredible exercise attempting God like perfection in man made machinery. Why do I do this? To improve myself. Doing the things that are difficult just because they are is worth doing.

That is something those prejudiced and narrow minded anti-gun nuts don't understand.

What you probably just learned is that people who own guns for recreation are not 'nuts', death dealers, macho issues, or wackos. There is purpose in why they do this and the people who hold such opinions are narrow minded.

[Jefferson]

Sixgun_Symphony wrote: Britboy, you may want to check this out.

http://www.mlagb.com/

If you want a real exercise in perfection? Try that. There are sooooo many ways and things that can disturb the aim of a muzzle shooter, that I didn't even try this. I choose surplus military rifles with the hope of some measured success. What I noticed from the good muzzle loaders is that they are old men, who have been shooting thier rifles for a very very very long time.

[lilwolf]

I personally compete with large bore rifles both with and with out scopes.
i use for shots at better than 50 meters a Krag .45-70 with no scope and only a peep sight.
Foe greater distances I use a variety of different calibers from .308 up to and including 50 caliber. I am not talking about muzzle loaders there.

My favorite range for accuracy is 900 yard out at a target 12" x 12" with a scope....long shots are what I like.

Anything closer I use a weatherby .460 magnum for those closer shots at about 300 to 500 yards. It takes a great deal of practice and it takes a good while to reload my own ammo.
For just plinking I like a remingtom 17 bolt action with a scope.
All in all it takes a lot of discipline to get good.

[evil muppet]

They train US Marines to shoot at 200, 300 and 500 yards. The 200yd is sitting, kneeling and standing position and you are shooting at a target about the size of a man's head and shoulder, there is also a 1 foot diameter target.

For some reason I am better at the standing than the kneeling or sitting. I'd always drive the shooting coaches nuts because they tell us to not stay in the shooting position more than a few seconds but I'd hold it for about a minute before shooting. I would just master applying just enough pressure on the trigger so it was just before it broke and holding it there until the front sight post would drift over the target. As long as I am wearing contacts instead of glasses I always shoot really good.

At 500 yd you are in the prone position firing at a man sized target. Your front sight post is bigger than your target.

[LostSoul3412]

britboy wrote: 1) The safety is wacky over the top. I mean, the bullet must be about 2 mm wide, yet the guy was so over the top with 'the weapon is always loaded, even when it's empty'. Blah blah blah unless I got shot in the head or heart I don't believe a .22 is gonna do jack.

I can understand it, since I felt the same way when I was getting trained. I pretty much got the point after the second safety speech, but I know why they do it. Better safe than sorry.

britboy wrote: 2) When I left I had to swear to them I hadn't stolen any ammo -- which seemed a little freaky.

Again, better safe than sorry. At least they asked you, if I took anything from the training grounds I'd be prosecuted and jailed in a heartbeat.

britboy wrote: 3) Right .. the sport. JESUS it is difficult. It reminds me of the sport of snooker, just relax relax relax realx breath out, squeeze trigger, bang .. it's not even on the card!

It's not that hard, but it takes practice and focus. I've never played snooker, so the analogy is lost to me, but it is difficult when you first start, and even a little discouraging when you miss.

britboy wrote: 4) The card was about 8cm by 10cm, 25 yards away. IN the centre the target circle was about the size of, er, a golf ball circumferance.

Ah, I was trained on a different target. It was a few years ago, but I think the target was roughly 3 meters x 1.25 meters with multiple silhouette targets on it of different sizes to represent different ranges.

britboy wrote: 5) Bloody hell it's still difficult. I will never, ever be a sniper.

I won't either, but it didn't stop me from getting qualified.

britboy wrote: 6) OK it's getting frustrating now the shots are all over the shop. The guy is telling me to take the shot when breathing out, but I'm convinced I do better if I hold my breath

Do what works best. Most people say to squeeze the trigger slowly, but if I have the shot I take it.

britboy wrote: Overall conclusions, a very difficult sport. In most sports if you don't do well you can try 10% harder and force a result (like football if you are doing badly just hurt the opposition a bit and they give you some space). In shooting it's like, I guess, darts (do you play that over in the states?).

Sport?

britboy wrote: I thought the safety was overkill, you had to check the barrel was empty 3 DIFFERENT TIMES and then SHOW THE INSTRUCTOR it was empty before you walked away from the rifle. Seemed a bit silly to me. God if the rifle jammed or the barrel was still full when I showed it to him I think he'd have shat his pants :lol: :lol:

That's it? I had to field stip my rifle...

britboy wrote: It was very, very difficult. The hardest sport to initially pick up I can remember (and I've tried virtually everything!)

Not that hard... I would say that synchronized swimming is much more difficult.

britboy wrote: And finally, there was virtually no kick on the gun.

Then you didn't use a real gun. :wink:

[mathurin]

britboy wrote: Well I have read a lot of people talking about trying shooting .. so I went along to a local rifle club (yep, here in the UK), and shot a load of .22 rounds at a target 25 yards away.

omg! did the rifle kill anyone?
sorry, you dont deserve that
i applaud you for taking the step many wouldnt and making an attempt to gain knowledge in the area you feel strongly about

britboy wrote:
Here are my impressions

1) The safety is wacky over the top. I mean, the bullet must be about 2 mm wide, yet the guy was so over the top with 'the weapon is always loaded, even when it's empty'. Blah blah blah unless I got shot in the head or heart I don't believe a .22 is gonna do jack.

ranges are always crazy on safety (so i hear, i have never been to one) and everyone with the brain god gave a rubber duck is careful with a gun, and safety crazy with a new shooter
it is hard to be too careful, accidents dont happen, stupidity does

actually a .22 is around 5.5 milimeters (i know the 5.56 round, but this was not it) however you are right that it is unlikely to kill you without hitting major vitals, you are wrong that it will not do jack, it is about shock damager, not slicing and dicing, hunting arrows have sharp wide blades to slice an artery, the animal will generally run alittle ways, hunting rifles work by expanding and making large wound channels, the shock of which can kill the animal almost immediatly.
accidently shooting yourself in the limb with a .22 could injure you to the point of losing the limb
at very least it would hurt alot, so dont try it (i once shot myself in the foot with a pellet gun, that hurt)

britboy wrote:
2) When I left I had to swear to them I hadn't stolen any ammo -- which seemed a little freaky.

prolly a brit thing, no ideas as i have never been to a range

britboy wrote:
3) Right .. the sport. JESUS it is difficult. It reminds me of the sport of snooker, just relax relax relax realx breath out, squeeze trigger, bang .. it's not even on the card!

seems alot easier on TV, the bad guy just points and some innocent dies instantly (or the hero is nicked slightly)
britboy wrote:
4) The card was about 8cm by 10cm, 25 yards away. IN the centre the target circle was about the size of, er, a golf ball circumferance.


the benefit of shooting in a non-structured environment, ie, outside the range (for all those who think guns should be stored on the range, listen) is the fun factor, you might experience it when you go shoot clays. i do my shooting at soup cans, knocks a hole through them and throws them about a foot with a .22

britboy wrote:
5) Bloody hell it's still difficult. I will never, ever be a sniper.


yet another advantage of guns in the home, i have discovered my shooting is very poor, in no small part because i flinch badly when i shoot (very powerful rifle with a steel buttplate caused it) and the best way to cure that is to dry fire, showing you how much you flinch

on a side note, i had no idea i flinched until i shot a full-auto, i kept trying for long bursts but found it difficult to aim, not because of kick, but because my eyes were closed, boy did i feel stupid, but i couldnt fix it in the 30 rnds alotted to me, so i have been dryfiring that high powered rifle (mostly because it is surplus russian, easy to buy and replace the firing pin if i damage it)


britboy wrote:
6) OK it's getting frustrating now the shots are all over the shop. The guy is telling me to take the shot when breathing out, but I'm convinced I do better if I hold my breath

meh, i never got good enough to notice the difference, but i think your right on holding the breath

BIIG tip, slowly squeeze the trigger, at first the gun will actually surprise you when it goes off, it feels natural to just hit it like a button, but that throws off aim

britboy wrote:
Overall conclusions, a very difficult sport. In most sports if you don't do well you can try 10% harder and force a result (like football if you are doing badly just hurt the opposition a bit and they give you some space). In shooting it's like, I guess, darts (do you play that over in the states?).

I thought the safety was overkill, you had to check the barrel was empty 3 DIFFERENT TIMES and then SHOW THE INSTRUCTOR it was empty before you walked away from the rifle. Seemed a bit silly to me. God if the rifle jammed or the barrel was still full when I showed it to him I think he'd have shat his pants :lol: :lol:

It was very, very difficult. The hardest sport to initially pick up I can remember (and I've tried virtually everything!)

And finally, there was virtually no kick on the gun.

it is difficult, one of the few sports that require good physical condition, yet have little activity to them (compared to things like football) i never got into the sport portion, but popping tin cans is great fun

no kick because it is a very weak gun, they are lots of fun though, the light recoil allows some rapid fire, and the rounds are very very cheap
but as far as use against human targets, very poor

britboy wrote:
So there you go. Not my cup of tea for a sport I prefer to be able to vent my anger and get some results from it (if that makes sense) so something a bit more physical. COMING SOON -- Britboy tries clay pigeon shooting for the first time!
you will probably enjoy clays better, it has more action and less tedious aiming, to a certain extent, the shotgun fires alot of small peices, making it like throwing a handful of gravel as opposed to a dart, but at a moving target, making it harder at the same time

shooting on private land is more fun because of the openness, you can do most anything you want, including shoot from the hip at the target, rapidly pulling the trigger, horribly inaccurate, but still fun

[Wolverine]

Meh.

Guns are too dangerous, then a .22 won't do anything.

People are not educated enough, then there's too much safety.

[RooK]

If you think shooting a .22 rifle at 25 yards is hard, try doing it with a handgun.

Safety might be overkill, but it's better than being killed (or shot). However, it is excessive even for in the US. Then again, I usually shoot on my own land on my own time. No range officers to tell me what to do.

[Winchester]

britboy wrote: COMING SOON -- Britboy tries clay pigeon shooting for the first time!

Shooting clays is fun, do it every Wednsday weather permitting.

[Aqualung]

britboy wrote: 1) The safety is wacky over the top. I mean, the bullet must be about 2 mm wide, yet the guy was so over the top with 'the weapon is always loaded, even when it's empty'. Blah blah blah unless I got shot in the head or heart I don't believe a .22 is gonna do jack.
That's really weird coming out of the mouth of an anti-gunner. You think guns should be restricted, but you don't care about saftey? And, a .22 is .22 of an inch, not 2 mm. That's almost 6mm.

Quote: 6) OK it's getting frustrating now the shots are all over the shop. The guy is telling me to take the shot when breathing out, but I'm convinced I do better if I hold my breath
I hold my breath. And stick out my tongue a little. I've bitten my tongue. :lol:

Quote: And finally, there was virtually no kick on the gun.
Well, it was just a .22. :lol:

[brian_in_idaho]

Britboy, I give you a lot of credit for giving it a try. Accuracy will come with time and practice, the first time out you are getting the feel for a gun, doing something new, absorbing the safety issues, don't worry about how well you shoot! The safety stuff, it's important to hammer on it, especially with a new shooter. Even though you "know" the rules, repetition makes it second nature. Do they let you shoot prone (laying down) at that range? It's a lot easier.

Lilwolf and the others are right, the long range tactical stuff is fun! Squeezing off a shot at 600-1000 yards and seeing the groups you can get is a ball, we shoot plastic pop bottles at 750 or so, milk jugs out to 1k. Not hits with every shot, but it doesn't take many, and its really cool to be able to watch your own bullet in flight.

I hope you enjoyed yourself.

Bri

[britboy]

They made everyone shoot in 'prone' position. I enjoyed it but as mentioned just a little too much thinking and concentration for me (I may try it again). I prefer kicking an inflated pigs-bladder as hard as I can instead.

As mentioned previously, my sport needs to involve some more physical energy. Maybe hunting would be the way to go .. it'd be pretty cool I reckon especially if it involved a 5 mile hike, and camping!

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: They made everyone shoot in 'prone' position. I enjoyed it but as mentioned just a little too much thinking and concentration for me (I may try it again). I prefer kicking an inflated pigs-bladder as hard as I can instead.

As mentioned previously, my sport needs to involve some more physical energy. Maybe hunting would be the way to go .. it'd be pretty cool I reckon especially if it involved a 5 mile hike, and camping!

The biathlon may be the shooting sport for you. It involves cross country skiing, and then stopping to shoot at a target. Your score is the fastest who can complete the circuit. If you miss the target, then you have to ski down a "penalty" loop of an extra 150m. You get only 3 extra shots, but they are also associated with some penalty.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon

I'm with you about prone position. I'm not a fan of formal target shooting. I prefer to plink (shoot at informal targets).

In terms of safety, you have to go overboard. Stupid accidents (like that DEA agent we discussed on here a few weeks ago) happen when you don't treat every weapon, regardless of what you "know" as loaded. When people ignore that rule is when they get hurt. Even a .22 can be fatal. Heck, a few years ago an actor was playing Russian roulette with a blank loaded revolver, and died.

[mathurin]

hunting activity depends on what you are hunting, most deer in my area are too timid to get within firing range of on foot, you must find a hiding place and wait, meaning even less activity

some bird hunting is alittle more active, but if you are looking for a hike, go hiking, hunting is very rarely sneaking up on an animal

[RooK]

Well mathurin, in the UK it varies. Up in Scotland they do a lot of hiking while hunting, much like Montana and places. You need a long range rifle, but you have to roam a large area to find the game and get in shooting distance.