Political Crossfire Forums

[Lumina]

Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act Re-Introduced in Congress

September 21, 2006

"Congressman Chris Smith (R-New Jersey) re-introduced the Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act today (H.R. 6099) with 65 cosponsors. The bill will likely receive a floor vote sometime next week. H.R. 6099 was introduced in both the 108th and the 109th Congress by Rep. Smith and by Senator Brownback (R-Kansas).

.... H.R. 6099 would require abortion providers to notify women who want to have an abortion 20 weeks after fertilization that the evidence suggests their unborn child feels pain and they may request anesthesia for their unborn child in order to reduce or eliminate the pain. This legislation would not require anesthesia and it specifically protects the doctor's right to inform the woman of any risks to her according to his or her own best medical judgment.

The recent Partial-Birth Abortion Ban trials have drawn new attention to the pain that unborn children feel during an abortion. In expert testimony during those trials, Dr. Sunny Anand, Director of the Pain Neurobiology Laboratory at Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, explained:

The human fetus possesses the ability to experience pain from 20 weeks of gestation, if not earlier, and the pain perceived by a fetus is possibly more intense than that perceived by term newborns or older children ... the highest density of pain receptors per square inch of skin in human development occurs in utero from 20 to 30 weeks gestation. During this period, the epidermis is still very thin, leaving nerve fibers closer to the surface of the skin than in older neonates and adults."
this link:

http://www.cwalac.org/article_373.shtml

I've never heard of this group Concerned Women for America. Has anybody else?

[agentkgb]

I hadn't heard of them but apparently they call themselves the largest public policy women's organization in the US, but according to Wikipedia it has the same number of members as NOW and they're certainly the media a lot less.

[CommiepinkoLefty]

Lumina wrote: Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act Re-Introduced in Congress

September 21, 2006

"Congressman Chris Smith (R-New Jersey) re-introduced the Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act today (H.R. 6099) with 65 cosponsors. The bill will likely receive a floor vote sometime next week. H.R. 6099 was introduced in both the 108th and the 109th Congress by Rep. Smith and by Senator Brownback (R-Kansas).

.... H.R. 6099 would require abortion providers to notify women who want to have an abortion 20 weeks after fertilization that the evidence suggests their unborn child feels pain and they may request anesthesia for their unborn child in order to reduce or eliminate the pain. This legislation would not require anesthesia and it specifically protects the doctor's right to inform the woman of any risks to her according to his or her own best medical judgment.

The recent Partial-Birth Abortion Ban trials have drawn new attention to the pain that unborn children feel during an abortion. In expert testimony during those trials, Dr. Sunny Anand, Director of the Pain Neurobiology Laboratory at Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, explained:

The human fetus possesses the ability to experience pain from 20 weeks of gestation, if not earlier, and the pain perceived by a fetus is possibly more intense than that perceived by term newborns or older children ... the highest density of pain receptors per square inch of skin in human development occurs in utero from 20 to 30 weeks gestation. During this period, the epidermis is still very thin, leaving nerve fibers closer to the surface of the skin than in older neonates and adults."
this link:

http://www.cwalac.org/article_373.shtml

I've never heard of this group Concerned Women for America. Has anybody else?

Cows feel extreme pain when we kill them, as do all our other livestock. This 'unborn awarness act' sounds like the beef industry having to tell potential buyers that the cow felt pain when it died. Big Deal. It's certainly not a human that 's dying in abortion.

[CommiepinkoLefty]

I'd also like to add that I agree with a point brought up in that article: Acts like this are made with the intent of elevating the fetus from a lump of tissue to a more human being.

[Lumina]

CommiepinkoLefty wrote: Lumina wrote: Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act Re-Introduced in Congress

September 21, 2006

"Congressman Chris Smith (R-New Jersey) re-introduced the Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act today (H.R. 6099) with 65 cosponsors. The bill will likely receive a floor vote sometime next week. H.R. 6099 was introduced in both the 108th and the 109th Congress by Rep. Smith and by Senator Brownback (R-Kansas).

.... H.R. 6099 would require abortion providers to notify women who want to have an abortion 20 weeks after fertilization that the evidence suggests their unborn child feels pain and they may request anesthesia for their unborn child in order to reduce or eliminate the pain. This legislation would not require anesthesia and it specifically protects the doctor's right to inform the woman of any risks to her according to his or her own best medical judgment.

The recent Partial-Birth Abortion Ban trials have drawn new attention to the pain that unborn children feel during an abortion. In expert testimony during those trials, Dr. Sunny Anand, Director of the Pain Neurobiology Laboratory at Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, explained:

The human fetus possesses the ability to experience pain from 20 weeks of gestation, if not earlier, and the pain perceived by a fetus is possibly more intense than that perceived by term newborns or older children ... the highest density of pain receptors per square inch of skin in human development occurs in utero from 20 to 30 weeks gestation. During this period, the epidermis is still very thin, leaving nerve fibers closer to the surface of the skin than in older neonates and adults."
this link:

http://www.cwalac.org/article_373.shtml

I've never heard of this group Concerned Women for America. Has anybody else?

Cows feel extreme pain when we kill them, as do all our other livestock. This 'unborn awarness act' sounds like the beef industry having to tell potential buyers that the cow felt pain when it died. Big Deal. It's certainly not a human that 's dying in abortion.

Interestingly, on the same link this comment is made:

"Congress even requires pain to be minimized for livestock which are slaughtered. How much more then should Congress seek to minimize the pain an unborn child feels when he or she is aborted? "

I also didn't know that Congress requires pain to be minimized for livestock. Am familiar with some of the techniques, but I didn't know there was legislation.

[Selfish_Meme]

While the science behind a fetus feeling pain is hazy at best, yes there are pain receptors, what do they hook up to? No ganglia are connected to the brain at 20 weeks. I understand the bill. I would support just banning abortions except for medical neccisty down to 12 weeks even. If you don't know your pregnant, have not decided what you are going to do, and been able to make an appointment within 3 months you just aren't trying.

[straw man]

Quote: This legislation would not require anesthesia...

Good thing that the mother and the abortionist maintain the legal right to cruelly and barbarically slaughter the child.

[Vercingetorix]

Quote: Good thing that the mother and the abortionist maintain the legal right to cruelly and barbarically slaughter the child.

Yeah, I know. Thank God they haven't outright banned the slaughter of kids yet. I really wonder what these "pro-life" people are thinking...

[Gilbert1908]

CommiepinkoLefty wrote: I'd also like to add that I agree with a point brought up in that article: Acts like this are made with the intent of elevating the fetus from a lump of tissue to a more human being.

If an embryo/fetus is not an indivdual human life what is it and when and how does it become a human life?

[Lumina]

CommiepinkoLefty wrote: I'd also like to add that I agree with a point brought up in that article: Acts like this are made with the intent of elevating the fetus from a lump of tissue to a more human being.

We know that at the moment of conception, the unique individual created has all of his or her 46 chromosomes. His or her eye color and everything else have already been genetically mapped out--this is no lump of cells; this is a growing, uniquely created human being.

[Ek0nomik]

Why is human life so valuable again?

[Lumina]

Ek0nomik wrote: Why is human life so valuable again?

If it isn't valuable to you, I'm pretty sure that nothing I can say will change your opinion.

[Ek0nomik]

I believe that life is valuable, but not at this stage. The only reason why I am alive today is simply because a fetus died. Had my mother not had a miscarriage, I wouldn't exist.

[Lumina]

Ek0nomik wrote: I believe that life is valuable, but not at this stage. The only reason why I am alive today is simply because a fetus died. Had my mother not had a miscarriage, I wouldn't exist.

What a cryptic comment. I'm confused--are you saying that you're a miscarriage? Surely, your life isn't all that bad!

[Ek0nomik]

Lumina wrote: Ek0nomik wrote: I believe that life is valuable, but not at this stage. The only reason why I am alive today is simply because a fetus died. Had my mother not had a miscarriage, I wouldn't exist.

What a cryptic comment. I'm confused--are you saying that you're a miscarriage? Surely, your life isn't all that bad!

... re-reading my comment I didn't think it could be misunderstood.

My mother had a miscarriage.

mis‧car‧riage
–noun
1. The expulsion of a fetus before it is viable, esp. between the third and seventh months of pregnancy; spontaneous abortion.

Because my mother didn't have her "second" child, I am here. My parents only wanted two kids. Explain to me how the fetuses life is equally as valuable as mine.

[straw man]

Quote: Explain to me how the fetuses life is equally as valuable as mine.

That's like asking why we should think your neigbor's life is as valuable as yours or your bosses or your little brothers or your grandfather's or your baby cousin's or whoever else's life is valuable as yours.

A human being is a human being and I fail to see how age could make any difference when you determine its value so maybe if you answered that you would have better insight into your question.

[Lumina]

Ek0nomik wrote: Lumina wrote: Ek0nomik wrote: I believe that life is valuable, but not at this stage. The only reason why I am alive today is simply because a fetus died. Had my mother not had a miscarriage, I wouldn't exist.

What a cryptic comment. I'm confused--are you saying that you're a miscarriage? Surely, your life isn't all that bad!

... re-reading my comment I didn't think it could be misunderstood.

My mother had a miscarriage.

mis‧car‧riage
–noun
1. The expulsion of a fetus before it is viable, esp. between the third and seventh months of pregnancy; spontaneous abortion.

Because my mother didn't have her "second" child, I am here. My parents only wanted two kids. Explain to me how the fetuses life is equally as valuable as mine.

And your mother's miscarriage somehow led to your birth? Don't criticize those who don't understand your point when you didn't explain it. NOW you explain that your mother's second child didn't survive, you're here. You didn't say this before.

I can't explain your parents' decision to have only two kids, and I also cannot explain your belief that you are a "substitute." I can only say that I'm sorry that you see your life in this way. If you're saying that your non-surviving sibling's life is less important simply because you survived and he or she didn't, I'm sorry for you.

Why? Because I myself have a child who only lived--for 9 and a half months--in my womb. She was equally as "valuable" as my two living children, and I mourn her loss--as a unique individual child created by God--to this very day. If you flatter yourself that somehow your life is more valuable than hers or your own brother or sister who was lost, then I pity you.

And make no mistake, if my first child had survived her birth, my beloved only daughter might not be here. Who's to say? Maybe she wouldn't be. And maybe if your sibling whom you refer to as a lesser "fetus" might have discouraged your parents from having you.

Just don't flatter yourself that you're somehow more than your lost brother or sister whom you are trying to diminish as a "fetus." Take it from me that your mother loved your sibling as much as she loves you now. You got lucky--you lived while your brother or sister did not. This doesn't make your sibling any less your brother or sister--it just makes you lucky to be here.

Speaking frankly, and given your parents' stated desire for only two kids, you're here because of your dead brother or sister. How about a little gratitude rather than diminishing your parents' heartbreak and the loss of their child by calling that child a "fetus" in comparison to the wonderfully-important (by virtue of living) life of YOU?