Political Crossfire Forums

[Varyag]

Selfish_Meme wrote: Varyag wrote: As opposed to you who changes your story every line, and afraid to adress my unrefutable argument point by point, my argument has been solid and unchanging.
Though I can't really say I have changed my stance if you will show me where I was inconsistent? Also I do at times actually change my mind, usually due to a good argument that convinces me my position was wrong. Rational people do that.

Again you're being assumptive, I'm not saying you're inconsistent nor that you change positions, just that you have a habit of ignoring certain things if you have no response or answering with a somewhat irrelevant line of thought.

Quote: Quote: varyag wrote: Well murderers have to pay for their crimes, heh its like a self-imposing capital punishment, kill your baby and you die too.
And so we get to the essential hypocrisy behind the pro-life movement, who cares about life as long as those involved are punished.

Varyag wrote: Not at all, first and foremost I'm not part of the pro-life movement, that said ofcourse punishment is an important part of preserving life, we have murder laws which threaten *what* do you think if a person commits murder? Likewise with abortion, the best way to stop women aborting babies due to their own selfish stupidity is to threaten force, there are really no other ways. EVERY law is enforced by potential punishment, get over it.

So if you are not pro-life then why are you arguing their position,

Firstly becuase our society entitles us to opinion independant of the positions of popular movements.

That said, the right to life exceeds the premise of your imaginary "right to choose." The overall impact on society, state and indavidual by abortion is an extrmely negative one, from state strength and civic virtue, to the relevance of personal responsibility and social fabric, there are no benefits. A society where innocent people are killed for relitively temporary social conveniece is not a society that belongs in this era.

Quote: your not the first to say kill the aborters, usually it is those with extreme views that even the people purportedly on their side are a bit embarrassed about.

Again you're being creatively assumptive, take note.

At no point did I say "kill the aborters," I just said that if one dies becuase of having a convenience abortion, it is of no loss to society.

Quote: Do you really think people don't kill each other because there is a law that says don't do it?

To some point, yes, the threat of force is all pervasive, the stronger the threat of force, the greater the opportunity cost of committing the crime. One would be more inclined to steal a loaf of bread if the punishment was a monetary fine than the death penalty. Everything is relative.

Quote: People don't kill for reasons of self preservation.

Some people don't kill for reasons of self preservation.

Quote: Society is a compact that people make to live together to be more succesful, being too cavalier about killing people is detrimental to the success of society and of the individuals in it, that is why people don't kill.

Again this is true, but to a point, there are countless scenarios where killing would bring personal benefit, its been done so many times throughout history.

Quote: If you as an individual kill people then you can pretty much expect to be killed.

Again, assumptive, many people get away with murder under certain pretexts, some simply conceal their crime, some just may be too powerful to touch, and some, have a tentative medical clause exception.

Quote: This lessens your chances for success of you and your offspring. That is the reason people don't kill each other. Laws are just for the people who are insane enough to not realise this.

It works the other way too, not just humans espousing their thoughts on certain subjects through laws, but the laws themselves impact on the way people think.

Quote: Look at any pre-civilised society and the same would have held true. Killing your fellows especially in small groups means less success for the tribe. That is where our behaviour came from, not a 'law'.

It came from social norm, which evolved into what we now know as "law."