Political Crossfire Forums

larryau · Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 26

http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?

All of the above.

Humans have a capacity for violence, and we also have a capacity for compassionate and caring.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

perdidochas wrote: larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?

All of the above.

Humans have a capacity for violence, and we also have a capacity for compassionate and caring. You are very right chas. But, to expand, I also think that some of the most violent individuals are ones who, misguided as it is, think they are acting out of compassion for someone.

Look at people like Fred Phelps and his ilk. While, not yet, physically violent he certainly is verbally violent. Yet, he thinks he is acting out of compassion.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2244 Location: Washington

larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?
I think we are violent primates surpressing our true feelings. We need to learn how to be compassionate and caring and good in nature. That is, we need to learn how to surpress our true feelings.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

CrossEyedMary wrote: larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?
I think we are violent primates surpressing our true feelings. We need to learn how to be compassionate and caring and good in nature. That is, we need to learn how to surpress our true feelings.

I disagree. I think we have compassion in our nature, too. Look at wild animals, they are both compassionate and violent.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2244 Location: Washington

perdidochas wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?
I think we are violent primates surpressing our true feelings. We need to learn how to be compassionate and caring and good in nature. That is, we need to learn how to surpress our true feelings.

I disagree. I think we have compassion in our nature, too. Look at wild animals, they are both compassionate and violent.
I don't believe they are compassionate. I think they are intent on making sure their species survives. Compassion, IMO, is about the intentions, not the actions.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

CrossEyedMary wrote: perdidochas wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?
I think we are violent primates surpressing our true feelings. We need to learn how to be compassionate and caring and good in nature. That is, we need to learn how to surpress our true feelings.

I disagree. I think we have compassion in our nature, too. Look at wild animals, they are both compassionate and violent.
I don't believe they are compassionate. I think they are intent on making sure their species survives. Compassion, IMO, is about the intentions, not the actions.

I disagree. First, we don't know the intentions of animals, so we can't judge if it's survival or more than that.

Second, I think people are naturally compassionate. I also believe that people are naturally violent. I saw both arise in my sons raising them. The nature of humankind is both.

eynon

perdidochas wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: perdidochas wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: larryau wrote: http://www.garglenrinse.com/2006/08/28/bomber-kills-11-near-iraq-ministry/

So, what do you think?

R we violent primates, suppressing our true feelings... or just compassionate and caring, and good in nature?
I think we are violent primates surpressing our true feelings. We need to learn how to be compassionate and caring and good in nature. That is, we need to learn how to surpress our true feelings.

I disagree. I think we have compassion in our nature, too. Look at wild animals, they are both compassionate and violent.
I don't believe they are compassionate. I think they are intent on making sure their species survives. Compassion, IMO, is about the intentions, not the actions.

I disagree. First, we don't know the intentions of animals, so we can't judge if it's survival or more than that.

Second, I think people are naturally compassionate. I also believe that people are naturally violent. I saw both arise in my sons raising them. The nature of humankind is both.

:tu: the nature of human duality has facinated philosophers for centuries......

larryau · Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 26

Actually, "everybody is born equal, it's education that sets them apart..." If we were born with everything we wanted, we wouldn't steal or kill... If nobody kills and steals, violent games and tv wouldn't exist and educate the further generations.

And lol, we're the only species of animal that kills each other for fun!

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

larryau wrote: Actually, "everybody is born equal, it's education that sets them apart..." If we were born with everything we wanted, we wouldn't steal or kill... If nobody kills and steals, violent games and tv wouldn't exist and educate the further generations.

Bull. Violence is inherent. Kids will do violent things, regardless of what they see. My sons, when toddlers, hit things, before they were ever spanked. Violence is inherent in humanity. The same with stealing. Kids will take things that aren't theirs, unless they are taught otherwise.

larryau wrote: And lol, we're the only species of animal that kills each other for fun!

I don't think that's true. I will rack my brains for examples.

Also, besides the mentally ill, I don't think humans kill other humans for fun.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

perdidochas wrote: larryau wrote: Actually, "everybody is born equal, it's education that sets them apart..." If we were born with everything we wanted, we wouldn't steal or kill... If nobody kills and steals, violent games and tv wouldn't exist and educate the further generations.

Bull. Violence is inherent. Kids will do violent things, regardless of what they see. My sons, when toddlers, hit things, before they were ever spanked. Violence is inherent in humanity. The same with stealing. Kids will take things that aren't theirs, unless they are taught otherwise.

larryau wrote: And lol, we're the only species of animal that kills each other for fun!

I don't think that's true. I will rack my brains for examples.

Also, besides the mentally ill, I don't think humans kill other humans for fun. Chas, I know you and I disagree on much, but I am with you here.

Humans are animals, no matter how evolved we are by comparison to our cousins in the animal kingdom. By that token, we have instincts for violence. It was a survival instinct for millenia. But, now, it is an instinct that we work to overcome. For some, that is easy. For some, it is not.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

Kids hit things and are violent because their brains are not devloped enough to handle frustration, anger and depression, they are not born with a full deck one might say. Adults should have developed the emotional skills necessary to not be violent unless provoked.

Animals are only usually violent in a very small subset of ways, predator/prey relationships, self defense and heirarchical. Despite disney movies.

Violence is really the last resort of the small minded, as it does mean you have failed to think your way around the problem.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10898 Location: Podunk, Colorado

I think people are violent in nature, look at New Orelands.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

Wolverine wrote: I think people are violent in nature, look at New Orelands.

Right, I think we established that fact. It seems to be that everyone agrees humans are both violent and compassionate naturally.

All that's left to figure out is what are we doing naturally and what are we doing because of an act of societies influence on ourselves.

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

Ek0nomik wrote:
All that's left to figure out is what are we doing naturally and what are we doing because of an act of societies influence on ourselves.

I think naturally we tend to be compassionate humans and that the violent natures of some are stroked more through societial factors. If there isn't a good 'grounding' of compassion in a persons basic upbringing, then the outside violent factors I believe, have more of an effect.

I haven't heard of too many people saying that people like Jeffrey Dahmer (only for example and the first serial killers name that popped into my head) were born evil.

So if people are not born evil (and for all intents purposes evil = extremely violent and/or homicidal) then why do some people commit such heinous acts?

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Ek0nomik wrote:
All that's left to figure out is what are we doing naturally and what are we doing because of an act of societies influence on ourselves.

I think naturally we tend to be compassionate humans and that the violent natures of some are stroked more through societial factors. If there isn't a good 'grounding' of compassion in a persons basic upbringing, then the outside violent factors I believe, have more of an effect.

I haven't heard of too many people saying that people like Jeffrey Dahmer (only for example and the first serial killers name that popped into my head) were born evil.

So if people are not born evil (and for all intents purposes evil = extremely violent and/or homicidal) then why do some people commit such heinous acts?

Most serial killers were cruelly abused and neglected as children.

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

perdidochas wrote: TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Ek0nomik wrote:
All that's left to figure out is what are we doing naturally and what are we doing because of an act of societies influence on ourselves.

I think naturally we tend to be compassionate humans and that the violent natures of some are stroked more through societial factors. If there isn't a good 'grounding' of compassion in a persons basic upbringing, then the outside violent factors I believe, have more of an effect.

I haven't heard of too many people saying that people like Jeffrey Dahmer (only for example and the first serial killers name that popped into my head) were born evil.

So if people are not born evil (and for all intents purposes evil = extremely violent and/or homicidal) then why do some people commit such heinous acts?

Most serial killers were cruelly abused and neglected as children.

That's my point.

Green · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject:

I think the reason that everything is violent in the news, is because bad news sells. I don't feel like describing why just this moment. It is however because of society.

eynon · Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:40 am Post subject:

Green wrote: I think the reason that everything is violent in the news, is because bad news sells. I don't feel like describing why just this moment. It is however because of society.

like every society in history.....blood and sex have always sold.

don't know about all humans but I have some basic violent tendancies that I surpress big time....the sizing up every male I run into, the constant shoulder checking that defined my teen years, the elation I felt the first time I dropped a guy in one punch, the surge of adrenaline I get at the sight of blood. I'm by no means a monster, compassion rules in my life, but I cultivate it far more then my violent side.

But if I lived 1000 years ago and wore a horned helmet to work I may feel differently.

larryau · Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 26

Actually, Humans are not the only animals that kill each other for fun but there is only one more, DOLPHINS... Research has shown that because humans have the highest iq in the world and dolphins are second on the list with highest iq's. When I was a kid, I never hit nor punched and my home videos have shown me that. It was until I saw Popeye, then I started imitating.