Political Crossfire Forums

[Quicksurf]

I won't call names, but it's time someone said something so here it goes...

Debate, in my opinion, is based of of the different interpretation of facts that people have about certain issues. Although the interpretations vary; they still are based off of the same facts.

It is impossible for there to be rational debate if people can't even have an opinion on the same facts as eachother. There is no point that can be proven, and it is impossible for anyone to win.

Conspiracies are not based on facts. They are based on the skewed versions people have of events that can't be proven to be true.

I could tell you right now, that I can fly, and therefore, gravity does not exist. So I conclude that science is a government conspiracy from keeping people from flying. How can you prove me wrong?I am basing an opinion on a fact that doesn't exist and can't be proven true.

The reason why I think conspiracies should be censored, would be the fact that they deter modest debate. It has become a frusteration of not only myself, but a large majority of PCF posters, across the political spectrum.

So I ask you this:

Why should, PCF, a great medium for debating, be ruined by these people? And why should they have the ability to deter new posters from coming here.

So admins, I think it's time to get rid of the "Alternate Theories" forums and stop harboring thes clowns. They don't have any merit here, and neither do their conspiracies.

[Stygma]

I'd rather have a whackjob Alternate Theories forum than see 1/4 of all new threads in P&G be about a 9/11 conspiracy. :roll:

[Quicksurf]

Stygma wrote: I'd rather have a whackjob Alternate Theories forum than see 1/4 of all new threads in P&G be about a 9/11 conspiracy. :roll:

I understand that, and I was fully supportive of the idea when it first started. I thought the Mods/Admins did a great job of filtering that garbage out of P&G.

Unfortunatley, it has done more harm than good in the long run. It seems that people try bring conspiracies into debate. Like I said before, the Conspiracy Forum is just harboring these people, an creating an atmosphere where bringing up conspiracies is acceptable.

In my opinion, the policy should be for posters to remain within reasonable debate, and only quotes sources and facts that people have accepted as true. If conspiracy theorists have a problem with that, than they should be banned from the site. Why is it a bad idea?

[TheGirlNextDoor]

Quicksurf wrote: I won't call names, but it's time someone said something so here it goes...

Debate, in my opinion, is based of of the different interpretation of facts that people have about certain issues. Although the interpretations vary; they still are based off of the same facts.

It is impossible for there to be rational debate if people can't even have an opinion on the same facts as eachother. There is no point that can be proven, and it is impossible for anyone to win.

Conspiracies are not based on facts. They are based on the skewed versions people have of events that can't be proven to be true.

I could tell you right now, that I can fly, and therefore, gravity does not exist. So I conclude that science is a government conspiracy from keeping people from flying. How can you prove me wrong?I am basing an opinion on a fact that doesn't exist and can't be proven true.

The reason why I think conspiracies should be censored, would be the fact that they deter modest debate. It has become a frusteration of not only myself, but a large majority of PCF posters, across the political spectrum.

So I ask you this:

Why should, PCF, a great medium for debating, be ruined by these people? And why should they have the ability to deter new posters from coming here.

So admins, I think it's time to get rid of the "Alternate Theories" forums and stop harboring thes clowns. They don't have any merit here, and neither do their conspiracies.

Do you realize who ASKED for that forum to begin with?

Perhaps you should find out before you say:

Quote: I think it's time to get rid of the "Alternate Theories" forums and stop harboring thes clowns. They don't have any merit here, and neither do their conspiracies.

[Quicksurf]

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Quicksurf wrote: I won't call names, but it's time someone said something so here it goes...

Debate, in my opinion, is based of of the different interpretation of facts that people have about certain issues. Although the interpretations vary; they still are based off of the same facts.

It is impossible for there to be rational debate if people can't even have an opinion on the same facts as eachother. There is no point that can be proven, and it is impossible for anyone to win.

Conspiracies are not based on facts. They are based on the skewed versions people have of events that can't be proven to be true.

I could tell you right now, that I can fly, and therefore, gravity does not exist. So I conclude that science is a government conspiracy from keeping people from flying. How can you prove me wrong?I am basing an opinion on a fact that doesn't exist and can't be proven true.

The reason why I think conspiracies should be censored, would be the fact that they deter modest debate. It has become a frusteration of not only myself, but a large majority of PCF posters, across the political spectrum.

So I ask you this:

Why should, PCF, a great medium for debating, be ruined by these people? And why should they have the ability to deter new posters from coming here.

So admins, I think it's time to get rid of the "Alternate Theories" forums and stop harboring thes clowns. They don't have any merit here, and neither do their conspiracies.

Do you realize who ASKED for that forum to begin with?

Perhaps you should find out before you say:

Quote: I think it's time to get rid of the "Alternate Theories" forums and stop harboring thes clowns. They don't have any merit here, and neither do their conspiracies.

Read my other post in this thread.

[Rankor and Pissing]

TheGirlNextDoor wrote:
Do you realize who ASKED for that forum to begin with?

Perhaps you should find out before you say:

Not sure why this is relevent?

Anyway, Quick has a point - I usually avoid the hell out of that place simply because it's like explaining Quantum Theory to a 2 year old... the responses are usually:

why? why? nu uh, why? uh huh, I don't know, why? why? why? why? (ad nauseum)

I certainly could do with more fact based debates - or if facts aren't available at least some sort of logical or philosophical debate, but usually that's simply too far out in space to even understand (like it's the RW practice to drink shakes made from baby fetuses as a form of population control and soylentgreen legislation Bush signed.) I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it stricken from the earth... :lol:

[WeThePeople]

The way I see it... the "Alternate Theories" forum isn't as much harboring conspiracy theorists as it is... distracting them from ruining the real debates with their conspiracy theories :wink:
There are going to be plenty of conspiracy theorists on political forums like this one, no matter what you do. So you might as well give them a place to sympathize with each other about how the world is really ruled by tiny green men, instead of forcing them to take it into the rest of the forum...

[Patriot911]

As a..... uh...... "frequent visitor" to the alternate theories forum, I say leave it. It does give people a place to go to put these theories without clogging the P&G forums and it gives people who aren't interested in the conspiracy theories the opportunity to avoid them altogether. If you get rid of the AT forum, all you're going to do is put the conspiracy theories back in the P&G forum and / or ban a bunch of people for bringing up conspiracy theories.

And besides.... the comedic value is priceless! ;-)

[Shady]

I think as long as they stay in their forum it's fine by me.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Shady wrote: I think as long as they stay in their forum it's fine by me.

But that's the problem... they do cross over and the same non-debatable garbage is being levied against either non-events or absolute baseless garbage. Maybe it's not that the Alternative Theory's group should be removed... but harsher policing of the P&G and other News sections should occur and keep them out of the "here and now".

[Shady]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: Shady wrote: I think as long as they stay in their forum it's fine by me.

But that's the problem... they do cross over and the same non-debatable garbage is being levied against either non-events or absolute baseless garbage. Maybe it's not that the Alternative Theory's group should be removed... but harsher policing of the P&G and other News sections should occur and keep them out of the "here and now".

That would require eliminating a large amount of the typically decent posting base.

[LetsGetReal]

Shady wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: Shady wrote: I think as long as they stay in their forum it's fine by me.

But that's the problem... they do cross over and the same non-debatable garbage is being levied against either non-events or absolute baseless garbage. Maybe it's not that the Alternative Theory's group should be removed... but harsher policing of the P&G and other News sections should occur and keep them out of the "here and now".

That would require eliminating a large amount of the typically decent posting base. Maybe most of us posters are refraining from going there because we're sick of the garbage... :?

I want to make a user bar stating "Here before the conspiracy and left when they took over PCF 2004"....Too bad I can't make them...:(

[Ek0nomik]

LetsGetReal wrote: I want to make a user bar stating "Here before the conspiracy and left when they took over PCF 2004"....Too bad I can't make them...:(

So leave.

Oh, by the way. Start/All Programs/Accessories/Paint

[LetsGetReal]

Ek0nomik wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I want to make a user bar stating "Here before the conspiracy and left when they took over PCF 2004"....Too bad I can't make them...:(

So leave.

Oh, by the way. Start/All Programs/Accessories/Paint Please stay on topic you troll...If you can't keep up with the current conversation then you shouldn't post at all, personal attacks aren't legitimate posts. You trolls are just as much the problem as these conspiracist whack jobs, all you guys do is annoy the valid posters enough to where they just ignore you/the entire P&G Forum.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: The way I see it... the "Alternate Theories" forum isn't as much harboring conspiracy theorists as it is... distracting them from ruining the real debates with their conspiracy theories

The problem is that some of these folks see it as their duty not to be relegated to the alternate theories and to post the same conspiracy theories in P&G on a continuous basis. Five years of of the same theories about 9/11 is enough. They are disrespectful to the people who lost their lives, and to the people who risked their lives on that day. Not to mention really disrespectful of our president and government.

I think they should be posted in the appropriate forum so folks don't have to be continually subjected to this objectionable material. I like to talk about weird stuff as much as the next guy and would hate to see these discussions banned totally, but IMHO they certainly belong in the appropriate forum, not in a forum designed for discussion about legitimate politics and government. When one is proven to be true, then it could be posted in P&G and discussed. Until that it should remain in the forum for alternate theories where it rightfully belongs.

Making outlandish claims that are designed to upset people by making blatantly false accusations, like many of these posts obviously are, are walking a fine line between trolling and actual discussion. No one really discusses them, anyway. There's not much left to be discussed and it always ends up being some false accusation followed by four or five guys congratulating each other for insulting people who find these outlandish claims hard to believe and pointing out why this is so. And ridiculous comments like "All government is 100% evil, and if you don't believe it you are a sheeple." are definitely trolling.

Not to mention the fact that 95% of these postings are thinly disguised anti-semitism.

Terms like "international bankers", "zionists", and "usurers" are ambiguous terms that imply folks of Jewish heritage are behind these plots to control the planet.

[Ek0nomik]

LetsGetReal wrote: Please stay on topic you troll...If you can't keep up with the current conversation then you shouldn't post at all, personal attacks aren't legitimate posts. You trolls are just as much the problem as these conspiracist whack jobs, all you guys do is annoy the valid posters enough to where they just ignore you/the entire P&G Forum.

1. You're being whiney about a subforum. Don't want to read it? Don't click your mouse button. I don't want to read about conspiracy theories, because I don't believe in them. Therefore, I don't enter the forum.

2. Define valid poster. Your post expressing your wish for a userbar is a valid post? Very interesting.

3. I don't go into P&G often because it's usually cluttered with Mid East War news.

4. I'm not a troll. I am merely trying to figure out why people can't resist clicking their mouse button instead of just ignoring it.

Please, try to continue turning your frustration into making other members look like inconsiderate ones. At the same time, try to realize that you're the one who needs to relax and perhaps hit the sack for a good nights sleep.

[Gus]

Cease this nonsense or there will be warnings.

[TheGirlNextDoor]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: TheGirlNextDoor wrote:
Do you realize who ASKED for that forum to begin with?

Perhaps you should find out before you say:

Not sure why this is relevent?

Anyway, Quick has a point - I usually avoid the hell out of that place simply because it's like explaining Quantum Theory to a 2 year old... the responses are usually:

why? why? nu uh, why? uh huh, I don't know, why? why? why? why? (ad nauseum)

I certainly could do with more fact based debates - or if facts aren't available at least some sort of logical or philosophical debate, but usually that's simply too far out in space to even understand (like it's the RW practice to drink shakes made from baby fetuses as a form of population control and soylentgreen legislation Bush signed.) I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it stricken from the earth... :lol:

It is relevant because the people who originally demanded this forum be created are now upset because it's here - and so my point is, really - what exactly will make some of you happy?

Do you want it there or not. Do you want us to leave it there so that conspiracies have a place to go or would you rather we closed that forum and left everything in P&G?

It seems as though we are now in a 'damned if you do and damned if you do not'.

I do not understand what is so hard about not opening a forum up if you do not like its contents. And as far as conspiracy posts being in P&G - then tell someone and we will move them.

And while I understand your complaint, the last part of your post is totally uncalled for and unnecessary.

[00timh]

People continue to post conspiracies in the P & G forum because often times they believe it is real. They believe in the sites they go to being real news. Many of them actually feel a duty to inform us of what is really goijng on, or at least what they think is going onThe others probably just like throwing stuff out there to piss people off.

Ignore the posts in the P & G which are conspiratorial and report it so that it gets moved into the proper forum.

[Aqualung]

Ek0nomik wrote: 1. You're being whiney about a subforum. Don't want to read it? Don't click your mouse button. I don't want to read about conspiracy theories, because I don't believe in them. Therefore, I don't enter the forum.

4. I'm not a troll. I am merely trying to figure out why people can't resist clicking their mouse button instead of just ignoring it.
Exactly. Nobody HAS to go into the conspiracy forums, and if it makes them that mad, maybe they shouldn't.