Political Crossfire Forums

[Lucky Luke]

So do I! most Americans agree with me and I even didn't know.

Thank you to Lilwolf, you made my day mate.



Better again Americans recognise that handguns are the problem to tackle:




http://www.newsbatch.com/guncontrol.htm

I have no idea where they got their numbers, ask Lilwolf if you want to know.

With less than 20% of Americans wanting lesser strict handgun control laws, we can assume that those are the handgun owners and as their number is going down stricter handgun control laws are inevitable:



It looks like that you are a dying breed after all guys, ready for accepting what most Americans want?
:-D
:-D

[LostSoul3412]

Tyranny by majority is not a path to liberty.

[lilwolf]

The graph does not reflect what you think LL. It shows that in 1998 the desire for stricter gun control was at 69% and in 2004 the number is 52%.

Since you cannot apply neither in this factor or no opinion the numbers are down for wanted control in 2004 over 1998. That is what the chart shows LL. Nothing different
The second graph Ll is the same results. You cannot include neither because they are basically neutral and no opinion is out as well.
The numbers then read in 1998 76% wanted stricter handgun control and in 2004 only 57% wanted stricter habdgun control. The numbers show itself LL. Nothing more nothing less.
In both charts you have used there are less numbers in those wanting less strict in 1998 and 2004.

No you cannot assume LL. The 20% you see cannot be assumed anything. This is a poll of american people. No where does it state that this represents gun sales or ownership LL. The link clearly says that this chart represents the surge in the late 80's and early 90's which are related to public concerns about crime rather than reactions to gun control. it has literally nothing to do with gun ownership LL. Not one thing.

Nice try but you failed on this one. You have been set up fool. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Onevote]

Lucky Luke wrote: So do I! most Americans agree with me and I even didn't know.

Thank you to Lilwolf, you made my day mate.



Better again Americans recognise that handguns are the problem to tackle:




http://www.newsbatch.com/guncontrol.htm

I have no idea where they got their numbers, ask Lilwolf if you want to know.

With less than 20% of Americans wanting lesser strict handgun control laws, we can assume that those are the handgun owners and as their number is going down stricter handgun control laws are inevitable:



It looks like that you are a dying breed after all guys, ready for accepting what most Americans want?
:-D
:-D While it is true that a majority of Americans do in fact support stricter gun control, a majority also think that it will do little to reduce crime, and that enforcing the myriad of laws on the books already would be far more effective in combatting gun crime. I've linked a couple of articles from CNN, the Washington post and the NY Times, none of which are by any means pro gun.

http://www.archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/10/cnn.poll/

http://www.nepa.org/pi/crime/pd041400e.html

Most people agree, "it is a right" to own fire arms in the USA. Women with underage children are far more likely to want stricter gun control, Men on the other hand want better enforcement of the existing laws. Either way most agree that more laws on top of the current laws will do little to reduce violence.

removing the cookies from the cookie jar to keep little Billy from eating all the cookies teaches nothing, and is of no deterrence, it only punishes billy's siblings by denying them cookies as well.

in other words, why punish me, A law abiding, responsible citizen, for the crimes of others? Aren't we each responsible for our own actions? Isn't it already a crime to shoot people? Rob people? rape people? If you want to reduce crime, begin by realizing that a person who would rob you, rape you, or shoot you sans a good reason , shouldn't be allowed in public at all.

[Lucky Luke]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Tyranny by majority is not a path to liberty.

And tyranny by an armed minority is LostSoul3412?

:-D
:-D

[Onevote]

Lucky Luke wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: Tyranny by majority is not a path to liberty.

And tyranny by an armed minority is LostSoul3412?

:-D
:-D A good reason for the majority to have the means to overthrow the armed minority.

[micfranklin]

Well, whatever happens, stricter gun control really isn't going to solve anything anymore than current laws do. And if they try to take my guns away from me, then they'll find out that I'm a damn good shot :wink:

[Lucky Luke]

lilwolf wrote: The graph does not reflect what you think LL. It shows that in 1998 the desire for stricter gun control was at 69% and in 2004 the number is 52%.

Since you cannot apply neither in this factor or no opinion the numbers are down for wanted control in 2004 over 1998. That is what the chart shows LL. Nothing different
The second graph Ll is the same results. You cannot include neither because they are basically neutral and no opinion is out as well.
The numbers then read in 1998 76% wanted stricter handgun control and in 2004 only 57% wanted stricter habdgun control. The numbers show itself LL. Nothing more nothing less.
In both charts you have used there are less numbers in those wanting less strict in 1998 and 2004.

No you cannot assume LL. The 20% you see cannot be assumed anything. This is a poll of american people. No where does it state that this represents gun sales or ownership LL. The link clearly says that this chart represents the surge in the late 80's and early 90's which are related to public concerns about crime rather than reactions to gun control. it has literally nothing to do with gun ownership LL. Not one thing.

Nice try but you failed on this one. You have been set up fool. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The overall majority is still there to stay Lilwolf and your minority is getting so small that the "Neither" are catching up on you!

In both charts you first posted in this forum Lilwolf the minority that wants less strict gun control is getting a smaller.

No where does it state that this represents gun sales or ownership I read you write Lilwolf, you are so funny. This is the link you introduced to this forum, did you not realise that I forgot to post the title of the graph?

Quote: Rate of U.S. Handgun Ownership 1973-2001
Source: National Gun Policy Survey
http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/online/guns01.pdf


The rate of U.S. Handgun Ownership 1973-2001 has nothing to do with gun ownership says Lilwolf, how funny!

Thank you again Lilwolf.

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

Onevote wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: Tyranny by majority is not a path to liberty.

And tyranny by an armed minority is LostSoul3412?

:-D
:-D A good reason for the majority to have the means to overthrow the armed minority.

But when the majority does not want to be armed Onevote, what are you going to do about the armed minority?

:-D
:-D

[ubikk]

I think if gun-rights people were more cooperative in setting up systems whereby we could reduce the flow of guns to criminals, then people wouldn't be so gung-ho to ban them. The problem is that they're stubborn. They want to keep their gun shows they don't want law enforcement in the loop on guns. They whine and complain that the suggestions won't work but they fail to come up with anything better.

In the end, they will be their own demise. It is sad, because I think the right to own arms is an important freedom.

[lilwolf]

The chart clearly show LL that in 1998 the american people did indeed want stricter gun control at 69% polled with 23% wanting less strict gun control.
Then in 2004 only 52% wanted stricter gun control versus 69% in 1998.with only 22% wanting less strict controls.

Like I said LL, since neither and no opinion cannot be added into the section of your choice or my choice. your numbers are lower now than in 1998.
Graph 2 - The numbers clearly shown are indeed saying that in 1998 76% of people polled did want stricter handgun controls with 19% wanting less strict, but in
2004 only 57% wanted stricter handgun controls versus 18% wanting less strict. Again as I said LL you nor I can add neither or no opinion into the pie slice to benfit either side.
That is the fact LL....you lose.

[Lucky Luke]

Onevote wrote:
While it is true that a majority of Americans do in fact support stricter gun control, a majority also think that it will do little to reduce crime, and that enforcing the myriad of laws on the books already would be far more effective in combatting gun crime. I've linked a couple of articles from CNN, the Washington post and the NY Times, none of which are by any means pro gun.

http://www.archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/10/cnn.poll/

http://www.nepa.org/pi/crime/pd041400e.html

Most people agree, "it is a right" to own fire arms in the USA. Women with underage children are far more likely to want stricter gun control, Men on the other hand want better enforcement of the existing laws. Either way most agree that more laws on top of the current laws will do little to reduce violence.

removing the cookies from the cookie jar to keep little Billy from eating all the cookies teaches nothing, and is of no deterrence, it only punishes billy's siblings by denying them cookies as well.

in other words, why punish me, A law abiding, responsible citizen, for the crimes of others? Aren't we each responsible for our own actions? Isn't it already a crime to shoot people? Rob people? rape people? If you want to reduce crime, begin by realizing that a person who would rob you, rape you, or shoot you sans a good reason , shouldn't be allowed in public at all.

You are a minority Onevote, gun control laws will get stricter until your murder rate lowers enough and as you can see murder rates with firearms is your problem gun owners to sort out before the majority of Americans sort you out:

Quote: Comparison of International Gun Ownership and Gun Homicide Rates
Source: Source: Coalition for Gun Control
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/international.html



Isn't Lilwolf link brilliant?

:-D
:-D

[Revenant]

Because polls are inherently flawless :lol:

:-D
:-D

[Revenant]

Lucky Luke wrote: Onevote wrote:
While it is true that a majority of Americans do in fact support stricter gun control, a majority also think that it will do little to reduce crime, and that enforcing the myriad of laws on the books already would be far more effective in combatting gun crime. I've linked a couple of articles from CNN, the Washington post and the NY Times, none of which are by any means pro gun.

http://www.archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/10/cnn.poll/

http://www.nepa.org/pi/crime/pd041400e.html

Most people agree, "it is a right" to own fire arms in the USA. Women with underage children are far more likely to want stricter gun control, Men on the other hand want better enforcement of the existing laws. Either way most agree that more laws on top of the current laws will do little to reduce violence.

removing the cookies from the cookie jar to keep little Billy from eating all the cookies teaches nothing, and is of no deterrence, it only punishes billy's siblings by denying them cookies as well.

in other words, why punish me, A law abiding, responsible citizen, for the crimes of others? Aren't we each responsible for our own actions? Isn't it already a crime to shoot people? Rob people? rape people? If you want to reduce crime, begin by realizing that a person who would rob you, rape you, or shoot you sans a good reason , shouldn't be allowed in public at all.

You are a minority Onevote, gun control laws will get stricter until your murder rate lowers enough and as you can see murder rates with firearms is your problem gun owners to sort out before the majority of Americans sort you out:

Quote: Comparison of International Gun Ownership and Gun Homicide Rates
Source: Source: Coalition for Gun Control
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/international.html



Isn't Lilwolf link brilliant?

:-D
:-D

Who says the murder rate is attributed solely to gun ownership in comparison to other nations?

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

micfranklin wrote: Well, whatever happens, stricter gun control really isn't going to solve anything anymore than current laws do. And if they try to take my guns away from me, then they'll find out that I'm a damn good shot :wink:

It will Micfranklin, tougher and stricter handgun control laws should be able to half your murder rate in a decade.

:-D
:-D

[Revenant]

I'm waiting....

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

Revenant wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Onevote wrote:
While it is true that a majority of Americans do in fact support stricter gun control, a majority also think that it will do little to reduce crime, and that enforcing the myriad of laws on the books already would be far more effective in combatting gun crime. I've linked a couple of articles from CNN, the Washington post and the NY Times, none of which are by any means pro gun.

http://www.archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/10/cnn.poll/

http://www.nepa.org/pi/crime/pd041400e.html

Most people agree, "it is a right" to own fire arms in the USA. Women with underage children are far more likely to want stricter gun control, Men on the other hand want better enforcement of the existing laws. Either way most agree that more laws on top of the current laws will do little to reduce violence.

removing the cookies from the cookie jar to keep little Billy from eating all the cookies teaches nothing, and is of no deterrence, it only punishes billy's siblings by denying them cookies as well.

in other words, why punish me, A law abiding, responsible citizen, for the crimes of others? Aren't we each responsible for our own actions? Isn't it already a crime to shoot people? Rob people? rape people? If you want to reduce crime, begin by realizing that a person who would rob you, rape you, or shoot you sans a good reason , shouldn't be allowed in public at all.

You are a minority Onevote, gun control laws will get stricter until your murder rate lowers enough and as you can see murder rates with firearms is your problem gun owners to sort out before the majority of Americans sort you out:

Quote: Comparison of International Gun Ownership and Gun Homicide Rates
Source: Source: Coalition for Gun Control
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/international.html



Isn't Lilwolf link brilliant?

:-D
:-D

Who says the murder rate is attributed solely to gun ownership in comparison to other nations?

:-D
:-D

Handgun ownership is Revenant, look it is all here in Lilwolf's link:



And the American people know it looking at the pies posted earlier, when they say they want stricter gun control, they really mean stricter handgun control.

Lilwolf, in the name of pro gun control people, thank you.
:-D
:-D

[lilwolf]

But remember LL you said that you did not like polls and surveys and never used them because they were unreliable. So, are you now accepting that the charts are accurate or are they not?

People want less control now than they did in 1998. The RTC laws are in place and crime is already coming down.
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I do not see where the so-called restrictions are gaining gropund LL. In fact it seems that more and more people are excersing their constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

[Onevote]

Lucky Luke wrote: Onevote wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: Tyranny by majority is not a path to liberty.

And tyranny by an armed minority is LostSoul3412?

:-D
:-D A good reason for the majority to have the means to overthrow the armed minority.

But when the majority does not want to be armed Onevote, what are you going to do about the armed minority?

:-D
:-D If the majority doesn't want to be armed while living under tyranny, they get what the deserve, Tyranny!

[antonio62]

Lucky Luke wrote: micfranklin wrote: Well, whatever happens, stricter gun control really isn't going to solve anything anymore than current laws do. And if they try to take my guns away from me, then they'll find out that I'm a damn good shot :wink:

It will Micfranklin, tougher and stricter handgun control laws should be able to half your murder rate in a decade.

:-D
:-D

Because when Handguns were banned in Britain gun crime fell dramatically didn't it. Nice to see you didn't mention Switzerland in your graph with the highest gun onwership in the world and an insanley low murder rate.