Political Crossfire Forums

[David Kelly]

Please, I only want Muslims (as this is there subforum) and Christians (as this is our religion I'm talking about) to post.

So, how do you view us and our teachings?

[ubikk]

I thought this forum was to discuss Islam, not that it was limited to Muslims.

[jeechoscopy]

ubikk wrote: I thought this forum was to discuss Islam, not that it was limited to Muslims.

David Kelly wants to collect the comments from Muslims about Christianity. I think he wants to make a collective idea what Muslim world has about Christianity.
I love to give my thoughts about Christianity but later.

I'm a Muslim from Pakistan.

[David Kelly]

jeechoscopy wrote: ubikk wrote: I thought this forum was to discuss Islam, not that it was limited to Muslims.

David Kelly wants to collect the comments from Muslims about Christianity. I think he wants to make a collective idea what Muslim world has about Christianity.
I love to give my thoughts about Christianity but later.

I'm a Muslim from Pakistan.

2 months ago I would have been asking about your name, but reading these forums I lerned that Muslims accept Jesus the same as I do (except for the being a god part) and so I'm not going to ask. 8:)

[Muslima]

Christainity only makes me wonder how come christains are not prohibited from doing anything and what makes you believe that Jesus is the son of god, otherwise I don't find it harmful or bad.

No problems in dealing with christians, too!

[John]

Muslima wrote: Christainity only makes me wonder how come christains are not prohibited from doing anything and what makes you believe that Jesus is the son of god, otherwise I don't find it harmful or bad.

No problems in dealing with christians, too!


We're prohibited from doing all kinds of things.

And we believe that Jesus is the Son of God because He is. He said He was and died and rose on the third day as proof. That's a historical fact.


No other explanation can explain the existance of Christianity other than the Resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

[TheTME]

John wrote: Muslima wrote: Christainity only makes me wonder how come christains are not prohibited from doing anything and what makes you believe that Jesus is the son of god, otherwise I don't find it harmful or bad.

No problems in dealing with christians, too!


We're prohibited from doing all kinds of things.

And we believe that Jesus is the Son of God because He is. He said He was and died and rose on the third day as proof. That's a historical fact.


No other explanation can explain the existance of Christianity other than the Resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead.


Historical fact? Prove it.

I think all religions are the Great Shaitan.

[John]

TheTME wrote: John wrote: Muslima wrote: Christainity only makes me wonder how come christains are not prohibited from doing anything and what makes you believe that Jesus is the son of god, otherwise I don't find it harmful or bad.

No problems in dealing with christians, too!


We're prohibited from doing all kinds of things.

And we believe that Jesus is the Son of God because He is. He said He was and died and rose on the third day as proof. That's a historical fact.


No other explanation can explain the existance of Christianity other than the Resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead.


Historical fact? Prove it.

I think all religions are the Great Shaitan.

Nothing that happened in history can be proven. We rely off creditable sources..

Do you have any evidence that the New Testament isn't a creditable source?

[TheTME]

John wrote: TheTME wrote: John wrote: Muslima wrote: Christainity only makes me wonder how come christains are not prohibited from doing anything and what makes you believe that Jesus is the son of god, otherwise I don't find it harmful or bad.

No problems in dealing with christians, too!


We're prohibited from doing all kinds of things.

And we believe that Jesus is the Son of God because He is. He said He was and died and rose on the third day as proof. That's a historical fact.


No other explanation can explain the existance of Christianity other than the Resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead.


Historical fact? Prove it.

I think all religions are the Great Shaitan.

Nothing that happened in history can be proven. We rely off creditable sources..

Do you have any evidence that the New Testament isn't a creditable source?


Well, the fact that it started to be written down 20 or 30 years after the events it describes detracts from the credibility. It also deals with the supernatural, and putting that into a historical account always makes things alittle iffy.Oh yes, and it gives Jesus two genealogies which do not agree with one another.

[jeechoscopy]

David Kelly wrote: jeechoscopy wrote: ubikk wrote: I thought this forum was to discuss Islam, not that it was limited to Muslims.

David Kelly wants to collect the comments from Muslims about Christianity. I think he wants to make a collective idea what Muslim world has about Christianity.
I love to give my thoughts about Christianity but later.

I'm a Muslim from Pakistan.

2 months ago I would have been asking about your name, but reading these forums I lerned that Muslims accept Jesus the same as I do (except for the being a god part) and so I'm not going to ask. 8:)

It is wonderful that you would doubt in my believes if I post Jesus picture as my avatar. But for me, this was the only and the simplest way to transmit a message that I love Jesus and waiting for his reappearance. I don't believe in Christianity because Islam is there that teaches about the truth of all the Prophets of God before Jesus and a Prophet after him Mohammad (peace be upon them).

In this post I'll try to show you the image about Christianity in my mind. Virtually, you can sum up all the ideas in a single packet of thoughts:

Dimension 1
1a- Christianity is a separate religion only because it did not accept Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) as a Prophet of God.
1b- Christianity's teaching is very similar to Islam because both religions are derived from a single God's messages.

2a- Christianity perceived Jesus as a God's son because he was born by a virgin Maryam. Thus, there was not a father of him so God was assumed his father.
2b- Christianity made another block by perceiving Jesus a God. It was opposite to the earlier teachings and messages of God (to Ibrahim and his son-Prophets) and later, Prophet Mohammad's teachings (In this sense Jews' and Muslims' beliefs share the same block.)

3a- These differences and similarities in understanding the God's message, became a cause of misunderstandings in Muslims and Christians.
3b- Christians had been pursuing Muslims in the competition of spreading faith or getting power.

Dimension 2
1a- Muslims and Christians have enjoyed their peak times at least, once in history.
1b- Muslims and Christians have taught the world how to live, take and give.

2a- Christianity, as it's most population lives in rich/semi rich countries, has become an overwhelming power by the clever politics (though, separated from religion now) and charismatic sciences. I must include the theoretical technologies with this power.
2b- A joy of power is persuading the most powerful Christian-oriented countries to overcome the world. I see liberals and atheists with them in the same school of power/thought.

Dimension 3
1- Jesus will return; Islam and Christians both teach that.
2- I'm sure, Christianity (and the rest of the world) will rejoin Islam just after Jesus reappears amongst them.

What do these three-dimensional ideas bring in your mind? It might a vivid picture of Christianity in my mind you can scan easily.


P.S. Rhetoric Sequence:
Dimension1/Dimension2/Dimension3
Religion/People/Religion
Past/Present/Future

[David Kelly]

It is wonderful that you would doubt in my believes if I post Jesus picture as my avatar. But for me, this was the only and the simplest way to transmit a message that I love Jesus and waiting for his reappearance. I don't believe in Christianity because Islam is there that teaches about the truth of all the Prophets of God before Jesus and a Prophet after him Mohammad (peace be upon them).

In this post I'll try to show you the image about Christianity in my mind. Virtually, you can sum up all the ideas in a single packet of thoughts:

Dimension 1
1a- Christianity is a separate religion only because it did not accept Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) as a Prophet of God.
1b- Christianity's teaching is very similar to Islam because both religions are derived from a single God's messages.

2a- Christianity perceived Jesus as a God's son because he was born by a virgin Maryam. Thus, there was not a father of him so God was assumed his father.
2b- Christianity made another block by perceiving Jesus a God. It was opposite to the earlier teachings and messages of God (to Ibrahim and his son-Prophets) and later, Prophet Mohammad's teachings (In this sense Jews' and Muslims' beliefs share the same block.)

3a- These differences and similarities in understanding the God's message, became a cause of misunderstandings in Muslims and Christians.
3b- Christians had been pursuing Muslims in the competition of spreading faith or getting power.

Dimension 2
1a- Muslims and Christians have enjoyed their peak times at least, once in history.
1b- Muslims and Christians have taught the world how to live, take and give.

2a- Christianity, as it's most population lives in rich/semi rich countries, has become an overwhelming power by the clever politics (though, separated from religion now) and charismatic sciences. I must include the theoretical technologies with this power.
2b- A joy of power is persuading the most powerful Christian-oriented countries to overcome the world. I see liberals and atheists with them in the same school of power/thought.

Dimension 3
1- Jesus will return; Islam and Christians both teach that.
2- I'm sure, Christianity (and the rest of the world) will rejoin Islam just after Jesus reappears amongst them.

What do these three-dimensional ideas bring in your mind? It might a vivid picture of Christianity in my mind you can scan easily.


P.S. Rhetoric Sequence:
Dimension1/Dimension2/Dimension3
Religion/People/Religion
Past/Present/Future[/quote]

Hum, so that's what you think? (Not saying you're wrong.)

Quote: Dimension 1
1a- Christianity is a separate religion only because it did not accept Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) as a Prophet of God.
1b- Christianity's teaching is very similar to Islam because both religions are derived from a single God's messages.

2a- Christianity perceived Jesus as a God's son because he was born by a virgin Maryam. Thus, there was not a father of him so God was assumed his father.
2b- Christianity made another block by perceiving Jesus a God. It was opposite to the earlier teachings and messages of God (to Ibrahim and his son-Prophets) and later, Prophet Mohammad's teachings (In this sense Jews' and Muslims' beliefs share the same block.)

3a- These differences and similarities in understanding the God's message, became a cause of misunderstandings in Muslims and Christians.
3b- Christians had been pursuing Muslims in the competition of spreading faith or getting power.

1a- Um, separate from the Jews, yes. It's Islam that's separate from Christianity being as we came 1st.
1b- Agreed.

2a- A good point, but what of the things that were seen but not reported by his followers?
2b- As for the 1st part, Jesus is one of the 3 that makes up the Holy Trinity. As for the 2nd part, Mohamed was trying to make himself look better then Jesus.

3a- Agreed, but I hope that peace can be had before Armageddon.
3b- We can say the same about you.

Quote: Dimension 2
1a- Muslims and Christians have enjoyed their peak times at least, once in history.
1b- Muslims and Christians have taught the world how to live, take and give.

2a- Christianity, as it's most population lives in rich/semi rich countries, has become an overwhelming power by the clever politics (though, separated from religion now) and charismatic sciences. I must include the theoretical technologies with this power.
2b- A joy of power is persuading the most powerful Christian-oriented countries to overcome the world. I see liberals and atheists with them in the same school of power/thought.

1a- Only a fool could deny that.
1b- Agreed.

2a- I agree that we've gained power among the rich lands, but you've gained power among the poor (and larger) lands.
2b- Agreed, but you left out the Conservatives. They seem to think they should rule the world. Odd how both GWB and OBL are both Conservative members of the Religious Right.

Quote: Dimension 3
1- Jesus will return; Islam and Christians both teach that.
2- I'm sure, Christianity (and the rest of the world) will rejoin Islam just after Jesus reappears amongst them.

1- Only a fool would deny that, too.
2- I doubt that one.

By the way...

Quote: It is wonderful that you would doubt in my believes if I post Jesus picture as my avatar.

When did I say that?

[jeechoscopy]

Kelly, only at a few points you seem disagree, because those might your unnegotiable believes. I'm not to debate here on those points but to show you the picture Christianity in my sight. Anyway, whatever these differences are, I believe, Jesus will purge it soon.


David Kelly wrote: 2 months ago I would have been asking about your name, but reading these forums I lerned that Muslims accept Jesus the same as I do (except for the being a god part) and so I'm not going to ask.
I thought you tried to guess about my religion by asking my name, because names usually indicate your believes or at least your family's one. Like David use to be the Western Christians' name.
But further by knowing my ideas on my religion you didn't ask me that....

[David Kelly]

Why are we the only 2 posting?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

David Kelly wrote: Why are we the only 2 posting?

" Please, I only want Muslims " :!?:

[cool_chick]

David Kelly wrote: Why are we the only 2 posting?

With all due respect, I've noticed a defensive posturing at Jeech's post on your part, which in turn puts the opposing opinion on the defensive (which apparently he does not choose to do). The question asked how do they view Christianity.....even if you don't agree, that's ok....

I suspect you'd get more responses if you didn't put those who offer their view on the defensive.

This is in no means meant to fault you. Please, please dont' take it the wrong way. It's hard when your beliefs contradict theirs, but if you want people to open up, you have put your personal beliefs aside and just listen....

Everyone who is religious is going to think that their religion is the right one and other's deterred from it. For example, I feel the Greek Orthodox is the true Christian religion, the one's who adhere to the original teachings of Christ, and the Catholics broke off (they only took the pope with them) because they wanted to change the teachings. Catholics feel completely opposite, that the Orthodox broke off of Catholicism. This is, in the end run, unprovable either way (not having been there at that time, only words brought down from each "side" is what we have now), and as such, I completely respect the Catholics belief regarding this....it's cool by me.....

If we could just learn to sit back and listen more.....there would be much less misunderstanding....

[Richard Owl Mirror]

David Kelly wrote: It is wonderful that you would doubt in my believes if I post Jesus picture as my avatar. ~snip~

Why is it permissible to have a picture of Jesus and not Mohammad ?

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/Mo.jpg

http://www.abcpedia.com/jesus/imagen-jesus-santo-sudario.jpg

[jeechoscopy]

David Kelly wrote: Why are we the only 2 posting?

Because, there are only a few Muslims "active" in Islamic section of the forum. Muslima and me, now a days, are the most frequent canditates to offer the replies.

[jeechoscopy]

cool_chick wrote: David Kelly wrote: Why are we the only 2 posting?

With all due respect, I've noticed a defensive posturing at Jeech's post on your part, which in turn puts the opposing opinion on the defensive (which apparently he does not choose to do). The question asked how do they view Christianity.....even if you don't agree, that's ok....

I suspect you'd get more responses if you didn't put those who offer their view on the defensive.

This is in no means meant to fault you. Please, please dont' take it the wrong way. It's hard when your beliefs contradict theirs, but if you want people to open up, you have put your personal beliefs aside and just listen....

Everyone who is religious is going to think that their religion is the right one and other's deterred from it. For example, I feel the Greek Orthodox is the true Christian religion, the one's who adhere to the original teachings of Christ, and the Catholics broke off (they only took the pope with them) because they wanted to change the teachings. Catholics feel completely opposite, that the Orthodox broke off of Catholicism. This is, in the end run, unprovable either way (not having been there at that time, only words brought down from each "side" is what we have now), and as such, I completely respect the Catholics belief regarding this....it's cool by me.....

If we could just learn to sit back and listen more.....there would be much less misunderstanding....

Reasons my defence
1- There are still, some Muslims who debate or act offencively; they are few out of the rest who're not affected by the heavy propaganda against Muslims or Islam. But I'm overwhelmed!!!
2- The thing that would keep me deffencive is a fear of civilizational clash. I don't want to see put, billions of people in that "political driven" clash.
3- Have you ever got the chance to call your beloved ones when you are under a collapsed house, when everthing was caved in? Always looking forward to "understanding" from YOU.

[jeechoscopy]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: David Kelly wrote: It is wonderful that you would doubt in my believes if I post Jesus picture as my avatar. ~snip~

Why is it permissible to have a picture of Jesus and not Mohammad ?


Very opportunistic question!!
Once I got a Private message who asked me about the picture of my avatr and my believes. I wrote him:
Quote: ...It's wonderful if one asks me about my believe and the picture at my avatar. I don't know why it is questionable...
2- I put this picture because:

a-Jesus is a Prophet, not only we Muslims believe in him but all Christianitity does as well. He is a well known and well respected person of the Earth...so the picture is... Though, we Muslims love Hazrat Mohammad Mustafa (peace be upon him) more than Jesus (because he-Mahammad- is the beloved of Allah) but drawing a picture of Mohammad is forbidden within us...

b-Though, that drawing a picture of any Prophet is forbidden I believe this is not a picture of Jesus. It's an imagination of his face.

c- I'm 32 years old, and some look like the picture shows about Jesus.

Another reason I must admit is that Jesus will return amongst us and unite us all. That's important.

[David Kelly]

What does Jesus look like?