Political Crossfire Forums

[Kane]

I got a string of general statements from my history professor which struck a chord. He didn't acknowledge the idea as being his own stance but the inference stands:

Is today's problem of the West vs. Middle East simply a clash of completely differing cultures? He basically laid out the idea that because we were able to move into the separation of church and state during the Renaissance and that no such thing of any equivalent magnitude has happened in the Muslim world they are stuck in what may be called "The Age of Faith."

Two distinctions were made:

-Those living in the west vie for life and happiness.

-Those living in the Age of Faith live to ensure their acceptance by their god/religion

I'm not coming to any conclusion of my own as I know very little of the Muslim world because I've yet to travel there. But of those that live in these countries what do you have to say about the above?

[skinn]

Kane wrote: I got a string of general statements from my history professor which struck a chord. He didn't acknowledge the idea as being his own stance but the inference stands:

Is today's problem of the West vs. Middle East simply a clash of completely differing cultures? He basically laid out the idea that because we were able to move into the separation of church and state during the Renaissance and that no such thing of any equivalent magnitude has happened in the Muslim world they are stuck in what may be called "The Age of Faith."

Two distinctions were made:

-Those living in the west vie for life and happiness.

-Those living in the Age of Faith live to ensure their acceptance by their god/religion

I'm not coming to any conclusion of my own as I know very little of the Muslim world because I've yet to travel there. But of those that live in these countries what do you have to say about the above?

this is one of the rare times i totally agree with you.
people are still very much blinded by faith and religion.

[Rankor and Pissing]

The separation within the culture occurred as well within Christianity - you're professor is correct that such a separation has not occurred yet in Islam. The clash however isn't a only a cultural one... I'd point out a cultural clash would best be exemplified by the France arsons... those actions were a result of a clash of cultures. The ME and terrorism is a clash on almost all levels, political, cultural, social, religious, etc.

To say it's a clash of cultures is an oversimplification. However, he did hit it on the head by infering a renaissance is needed within the Middle East. I personal think the ME was far ahead of most cultures during the time of Christ... yet moved little in the thousands of years since. Moderates in Islam must create the renaissance and remove religion from being used as a universal tool in all aspects of life.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Kane wrote: I got a string of general statements from my history professor which struck a chord. He didn't acknowledge the idea as being his own stance but the inference stands:

Is today's problem of the West vs. Middle East simply a clash of completely differing cultures? He basically laid out the idea that because we were able to move into the separation of church and state during the Renaissance and that no such thing of any equivalent magnitude has happened in the Muslim world they are stuck in what may be called "The Age of Faith."

Two distinctions were made:

-Those living in the west vie for life and happiness.

-Those living in the Age of Faith live to ensure their acceptance by their god/religion

I'm not coming to any conclusion of my own as I know very little of the Muslim world because I've yet to travel there. But of those that live in these countries what do you have to say about the above?

Excuse me for being blunt, but that's a bunch of nonsense. People always love to look at the world in some linear manner where one civilization is stuck in some distant time and needs to be updated to become more like "us", but frankly this view ignores the fact that radical Islam is a modern phenomenon and has been around in its current form for only 2 centuries.

[cap'n queasy]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Kane wrote: I got a string of general statements from my history professor which struck a chord. He didn't acknowledge the idea as being his own stance but the inference stands:

Is today's problem of the West vs. Middle East simply a clash of completely differing cultures? He basically laid out the idea that because we were able to move into the separation of church and state during the Renaissance and that no such thing of any equivalent magnitude has happened in the Muslim world they are stuck in what may be called "The Age of Faith."

Two distinctions were made:

-Those living in the west vie for life and happiness.

-Those living in the Age of Faith live to ensure their acceptance by their god/religion

I'm not coming to any conclusion of my own as I know very little of the Muslim world because I've yet to travel there. But of those that live in these countries what do you have to say about the above?

Excuse me for being blunt, but that's a bunch of nonsense. People always love to look at the world in some linear manner where one civilization is stuck in some distant time and needs to be updated to become more like "us", but frankly this view ignores the fact that radical Islam is a modern phenomenon and has been around in its current form for only 2 centuries.

Actually the idea of lesser Jihad being seen as a "Holy War" dates to the time of Saladin. This was part of his ideology and that is a large part of what made him such a great leader. He really knew how to focus his people's attention on his objectives by utilizing this concept.

This same concept of the lesser Jihad ie "holy war" is at the basis of Islamic radicalism today, although there are modern ideologies influencing it and no leader of Saladin's caliber around today.

Although I would have to say I would agree with your statement that the Islamic culture is not stuck in the distant past. I would say, instead, they have many people who are intensely focused on dominating the future. It is a good thing for the West they have no great leader, like Saladin, to focus the efforts of the entire people. Personally, I think that Middle Eastern civilization could possibly someday eclipse Western civilization.

Western civilization is where I personally see a "clash of cultures" having the most effect on whether we can survive as a civilization or not. Western civilization may possibly entirely disintegrate on it's own. It's at war with itself from within and it's people seem to be under some type of malaise while the Islamic civilization is robust about it's objectives.

We very well may crack before they do IMHO.

[Muslima]

Here is what I see in my daily life in the ME.

the population is growing into three different parts.

1. people who live as westerners and are only muslims on papers.
2. people who live islamic and western life, and who are muslims in every way (Like me!)
3. people who refuse the western civilization, but accept their technology, which are kind of tough to deal with if you are not a muslim.

group 1 and 2 could become members of group three but not the way around.

I don't think it is right to say the age of faith because i don't think that it will change, espcailly that many group one are becoming group two these days, including the stars.

[Muslima]

and a tip from an ME,

whenever you decide to visit any contry in the ME, make sure it's winter, except lebanon because they have hills to live on :-D !

[Kane]

Muslima wrote: and a tip from an ME,

whenever you decide to visit any contry in the ME, make sure it's winter, except lebanon because they have hills to live on :-D !

I love the cold. :)

[skinn]

Kane wrote: Muslima wrote: and a tip from an ME,

whenever you decide to visit any contry in the ME, make sure it's winter, except lebanon because they have hills to live on :-D !

I love the cold. :)

then u should come to lebanon :-D

"while eastern civilisation" is based on religions (even christians in the "east" are very religious.

"Westen culture" is based on modernism, and in the end will be the only living culture, and will simply be called "modern culture".
western culture is not based on one book, but on a variety of philosophies and bieleves.

marx, sartre, nietzsche are the modern culture, atheism is the modern culture.

western culture is based on the conscient, while eastern is based on the subconscient.

[Lola Blu]

I don't think that the main reason for conflict between the Middle East (as in, the Muslim countries) and the Western world is what your professor said, because Israel doesn't really separate religion and state either.
The basis of the foundation of the creation of Israel is that it is a land for the Jewish people, which is obviously a religious basis. However, Israel is a democracy and is considered more Western than anything else, with the U.S. and Great Britain as its main allies.
Maybe it is a question of which religions are separated from the state and which ones aren't that create conflict, and not whether or not they're separated.

[skinn]

Lola Blu wrote: I don't think that the main reason for conflict between the Middle East (as in, the Muslim countries) and the Western world is what your professor said, because Israel doesn't really separate religion and state either.
The basis of the foundation of the creation of Israel is that it is a land for the Jewish people, which is obviously a religious basis. However, Israel is a democracy and is considered more Western than anything else, with the U.S. and Great Britain as its main allies.
Maybe it is a question of which religions are separated from the state and which ones aren't that create conflict, and not whether or not they're separated.

the conflict in the middle east is not directly related to the clash of cultures.