Political Crossfire Forums

gemma · Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Posts: 142 Location: AZ

I went to PP for birth control pills before I had a primary care physician. I would get signs waved at me as I drove in the parking lot. And people would approach my car window as soon as I left the “safe zone.” It was none of their business what I was there for.

Protest all you wish, I think it’s great even if I disagree with your opinions on the matter.

Just stay away from the women, and quit assuming things about them when they’re just trying to take care of themselves, and we'll get along just fine.

rudijustfailed · Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 18 Location: manchester

there's no such thing as a peaceful protest outside an abortion clinic. you are there to harass women who are making a choice FOR THEM.

No2wookie · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 1224

By that logic, there's no such thing as a peaceful protest. Period.

rudijustfailed · Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 18 Location: manchester

of course there are peaceful protests. there can even be peaceful abortion protests, providing they do not take place at abortion clinics but rather where decisions are made.

intimidating women (often single, scared, upset and confused) outside a place where they are making a decision that will inevitably dictate the rest of their lives, is not being peaceful.

if you don't agree, try walking through a crowd of people silently judging you.

Revenant · Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 15934 Location: Bliss

rudijustfailed wrote: of course there are peaceful protests. there can even be peaceful abortion protests, providing they do not take place at abortion clinics but rather where decisions are made.

intimidating women (often single, scared, upset and confused) outside a place where they are making a decision that will inevitably dictate the rest of their lives, is not being peaceful.

if you don't agree, try walking through a crowd of people silently judging you.

I do. It's called everyday life.

They have a right to protest where they wish when they wish. It may be looked down upon, but it's their right.

rudijustfailed · Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 18 Location: manchester

i haven't denied that people can protest wherever they like (believe me, im not a big fan of censorship). im just arguing that in no way can it be regarded as peaceful.

TheKrava · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Minneapolis, MN

All of this reminds me how I was driving by NorthWest Airlines mechanics, who were on strike.
I would never drive by these **** without showing them a middle finger or screaming some nasty stuff out.

I just loved doing it! I hate unions!

Anyway, I think that's what pro-choice women should do. :)
If I would go with my girl to such place and see protesters I would definetely be throwing the garbage from my car at them, just like I did with these airline mechanics. :)

JayDubya · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1894 Location: Texas

TheKrava wrote: All of this reminds me how I was driving by NorthWest Airlines mechanics, who were on strike.
I would never drive by these ***holes without showing them a middle finger or screaming some nasty stuff out.

I just loved doing it! I hate unions!

Anyway, I think that's what pro-choice women should do. :)
If I would go with my girl to such place and see protesters I would definetely be throwing the garbage from my car at them, just like I did with these airline mechanics. :)

Yeah, good plan. It isn't like these guys aren't reaaaaally good at getting license plate numbers, can't figure out who you are, and file assault charges. But otherwise, fling away.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 14998

rudijustfailed wrote: there's no such thing as a peaceful protest outside an abortion clinic. you are there to harass women who are making a choice FOR THEM.

That's just not true.

The PP in my community is within gates. Beyond the parking lot and the gates is a public sidewalk that fronts the street. Those protesting by silently praying stand on that sidewalk and also across the busy street.

And I am emphatically not there to harass women. I am there in the hope that my presence and my prayers will somehow encourage the women seeking abortion to turn back before they make probably the saddest decision of their lives. That just one person on the medical staff will look into one last bucket containing an aborted baby and say to him or herself, "I cannot be a part of this any more." That just one father will tell the mother of his child that together and with God's help, they can choose life rather than death.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

Though they probably wouldn't turn back because they saw the light, they probably turn back to avoid people judging them, at an emotional and vulnerable time, which is probably why they were there in the first place.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 14998

TheKrava wrote: All of this reminds me how I was driving by NorthWest Airlines mechanics, who were on strike.
I would never drive by these ***holes without showing them a middle finger or screaming some nasty stuff out.

I just loved doing it! I hate unions!

Anyway, I think that's what pro-choice women should do. :)
If I would go with my girl to such place and see protesters I would definetely be throwing the garbage from my car at them, just like I did with these airline mechanics. :)

My son does go with his girl to Planned Parenthood, which provides many essential health services for women who otherwise couldn't afford them.
I'd like to think that I reared him not to throw garbage at those whose opinions he disagrees with...particularly those who are saying nothing and whose heads are bowed in prayer.

Juggalo6772 · Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 51

No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

WeThePeople · Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:13 am Post subject:

Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

...If pro-lifers thought that it was just a woman's body, and not her healthy child that she was killing, then they would probably agree with too. When will you understand that the pro-life and pro-choice movements operate under distinctly different axioms, and that when you apply the pro-choice axiom (not a human, just a bunch of tissue) to your logic, of course you will come out favoring that position. But if you consider the fact that pro-lifers consider abortion nothing short of killing an innocent child... mabye you can at least understand why men who are pro-life find it hard to accept your argument (which, btw, isnt an argument.... you're just spouting the same pro-choice rhetoric, and contributing nothing to this debate)?

Juggalo6772 · Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 51

WeThePeople wrote: Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

...If pro-lifers thought that it was just a woman's body, and not her healthy child that she was killing, then they would probably agree with too. When will you understand that the pro-life and pro-choice movements operate under distinctly different axioms, and that when you apply the pro-choice axiom (not a human, just a bunch of tissue) to your logic, of course you will come out favoring that position. But if you consider the fact that pro-lifers consider abortion nothing short of killing an innocent child... mabye you can at least understand why men who are pro-life find it hard to accept your argument (which, btw, isnt an argument.... you're just spouting the same pro-choice rhetoric, and contributing nothing to this debate)?
I would never want to be party to an abortion, that said i dont feel that the government or anyone should be able to tell some one what they can and cant do with there own body.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Juggalo6772 wrote: WeThePeople wrote: Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

...If pro-lifers thought that it was just a woman's body, and not her healthy child that she was killing, then they would probably agree with too. When will you understand that the pro-life and pro-choice movements operate under distinctly different axioms, and that when you apply the pro-choice axiom (not a human, just a bunch of tissue) to your logic, of course you will come out favoring that position. But if you consider the fact that pro-lifers consider abortion nothing short of killing an innocent child... mabye you can at least understand why men who are pro-life find it hard to accept your argument (which, btw, isnt an argument.... you're just spouting the same pro-choice rhetoric, and contributing nothing to this debate)?
I would never want to be party to an abortion, that said i dont feel that the government or anyone should be able to tell some one what they can and cant do with there own body.

You just reworded and expanded a little on the same old rhetoric, read the post you quoted again and try to understand what he is saying.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 14998

Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

Ummm, excuse me, but a woman couldn't become pregnant (turkey basters aside) without a man's "contribution." Should not the 50% contribution be entitled to a voice?

Oh, and are you a man or a woman?

Juggalo6772 · Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 51

Lumina wrote: Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

Ummm, excuse me, but a woman couldn't become pregnant (turkey basters aside) without a man's "contribution." Should not the 50% contribution be entitled to a voice?

Oh, and are you a man or a woman?
I'm a man and no other people shouldn't be able to decide what other people can do with there body's, If we allow the government or people to do that were do we stop?

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 14998

Then would you agree that a woman does not have the right to harm the life and body growing inside her womb?

JayDubya · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1894 Location: Texas

Juggalo6772 wrote: Lumina wrote: Juggalo6772 wrote: No2wookie wrote: Men certainly do have a right to take a stance on abortion.
No we dont its a womans body and its her choice.

Ummm, excuse me, but a woman couldn't become pregnant (turkey basters aside) without a man's "contribution." Should not the 50% contribution be entitled to a voice?

Oh, and are you a man or a woman?
I'm a man and no other people shouldn't be able to decide what other people can do with there body's, If we allow the government or people to do that were do we stop?

You're using the "slippery slope" argument against people that believe what you're defending to be murder.

Civil rights are very important, and both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" people believe in unalienable civil rights. It is wrong to tread on someone's civil rights. For that very reason it cannot be your right as a citizen to cause harm to another or restrict their rights - your rights extend fairly far but end the moment they interfere with or harm another.

Ultimately, it is this argument that is at the crux of the matter. People can be scientifically ignorant or well-educated and cite all the research they want... from the standpoint of the government, the most important question is "does this developing human have basic human rights."

I stand firmly against those that wish to say "No."

We're talking ideology here. The fact that the words you are reading on your computer screen originate from a source that claims to have a penis is not particularly relevant. Human men have a role in creating life and a definite responsibility to that life.

Izzibeth · Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 423

i have no problem with people peacefully protesting outside of the abortion clinic. as long as it stays that way. it is your right to protest something you feel is wrong, i just feel that respect should be paid to the women who are walking into that clinic to, as previously stated, "make perhaps one of the saddest decisions of their lives". it is not an easy decision to come to and is often made by the young, poor, and scared...

one of my best friends made that decision (going on about... 4 years now) and when she went to the clinic she was lucky as there was only one man standing there who handed her a flier and said "choose life". she said she was happy that he was all she had to deal with and she couldn't imagine walking into a clinic to make that decision with a crowd of people yelling at her. she went with her mother and i offered to go with her as well but she did not want me to. she ended up taking getting a pill which she later took at home that basically caused her to miscarry. horrible experience and you can bet she will ensure that she never has to go through it again. but also, we are now not 17/18 years old anymore and have more resources available to us for having children so if she were to get pregnant again, she might choose a different path. however, i was happy to hear that she did not have to deal with a screaming crowd.. she was actually more worried about that than the abortion for some time!

anyway, peaceful protests are a-okay in my book. but unfortunately, most aren't carried out that way. i think she just got lucky because we lived in Boston area and i believe abortion views are more on the pro-choice end in Massachusetts.