Political Crossfire Forums

Jefferson · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3218

Let's see. Hunting rifles will take down elephants and hippos with one shot, but assault rifles are not suitable for such a task. Why?

Then which one is really more deadly?

One hint for the anti-gunners here: Spray and pray is the typical markmanship technique by insurgents in Iraq. Marines laugh at such techniques and regularly bring down many insurgents with one shot as the 'spray and pray' bullets harmlessly fly over thier heads.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14445 Location: idaho

It easier to hit your target with one bullet being fired instead of 20 or 30 all at once. You know barrel climb and such.
Spray and pray works if you are in a real close area where you can (say) fire into a room and just let lead fly. But out in the open it's much better to have control and proper aim. Easier to lead on your target if needed as well.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

Jefferson wrote: Let's see. Hunting rifles will take down elephants and hippos with one shot, but assault rifles are not suitable for such a task. Why?

Then which one is really more deadly?

One hint for the anti-gunners here: Spray and pray is the typical markmanship technique by insurgents in Iraq. Marines laugh at such techniques and regularly bring down many insurgents with one shot as the 'spray and pray' bullets harmlessly fly over thier heads.
Don't give them the idea that they should take away my rifle! :shock:

RooK · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2006 Location: SE Kentucky

To clarify, by assault rifle he means full-auto. Not semi-auto, military-style rifles.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 11047 Location: Podunk, Colorado

Every time sone says "spray n pray" I think they are refering to me, given that is my screen name on most gun forums. :lol:

But yeah, aiming makes everything a lot easier.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

Jefferson wrote: Let's see. Hunting rifles will take down elephants and hippos with one shot, but assault rifles are not suitable for such a task. Why?

Then which one is really more deadly?

One hint for the anti-gunners here: Spray and pray is the typical markmanship technique by insurgents in Iraq. Marines laugh at such techniques and regularly bring down many insurgents with one shot as the 'spray and pray' bullets harmlessly fly over thier heads.

Well, actually, assault rifles using 7.62 NATO (i.e. .308 Winchester) are quite effective at killing elephants and hippos. African poachers use them all the time.

Semi-automatic versions of assault rifles in 5.56mm NATO are quite often used in varmint and coyote hunting. Semi-automatic versions os assault rifles in 7.62mm NATO (and a lesser extent 7.62x39mm) are effective, although heavy, deer rifles.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

britboy wrote: But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

Full autos are legally available in the U.S. under many restrictions. It would cost roughly $5000 to buy one, IF your individual state allows and you have a perfectly clean background check. Since 1934 (when these were restricted extensively), only 2 crimes have been committed by legal full auto weapons under those restrictions. One of those crimes was by a crooked policeman using a full auto weapon owned by his police department.

britboy wrote: We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Hmm, interesting, as one of the biggest increases in American gun manufacturing is in "cowboy" style guns. Gun owners don't want cool-looking or tough-sounding names, they want guns that are appropriate for their purpose. Cowboy style guns are used in cowboy type shooting matches.

micfranklin · Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:12 am Post subject:

I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

micfranklin wrote: I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

If you're an African soldier, and happen to have an assault rifle issued to you, and your government pay is low, of course you're going to use an assault rifle. A clip full of government-issued 7.62 Nato is free. A clip full of elephant gun cartridges will cost more than a black market assault rifle.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

perdidochas wrote: micfranklin wrote: I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

If you're an African soldier, and happen to have an assault rifle issued to you, and your government pay is low, of course you're going to use an assault rifle. A clip full of government-issued 7.62 Nato is free. A clip full of elephant gun cartridges will cost more than a black market assault rifle.

50 rounds of .45-70, elephant and big game handloads, can run anywhere from 70-140 dollars.

That's a LOT of money for 50 rounds of ammunition.

brian_in_idaho · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 283 Location: Northern Idaho

airo wrote: perdidochas wrote: micfranklin wrote: I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

If you're an African soldier, and happen to have an assault rifle issued to you, and your government pay is low, of course you're going to use an assault rifle. A clip full of government-issued 7.62 Nato is free. A clip full of elephant gun cartridges will cost more than a black market assault rifle.

50 rounds of .45-70, elephant and big game handloads, can run anywhere from 70-140 dollars.

That's a LOT of money for 50 rounds of ammunition.

Elephants (and other game) were heavily poached with government issued FN-FAL (or locally manufactured equivalents), chambered in 7.62 x 51 (aka 7.62 NATO, similar to our .308 Win). Not most peoples first choice for a stomper, but when the gov provides the ammo and rifle, and its so readily available, it's whats used.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

airo wrote: perdidochas wrote: micfranklin wrote: I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

If you're an African soldier, and happen to have an assault rifle issued to you, and your government pay is low, of course you're going to use an assault rifle. A clip full of government-issued 7.62 Nato is free. A clip full of elephant gun cartridges will cost more than a black market assault rifle.

50 rounds of .45-70, elephant and big game handloads, can run anywhere from 70-140 dollars.

That's a LOT of money for 50 rounds of ammunition.

Yep, and .45-70 isn't elephant ammunition, it's not nearly as powerful as what most would consider an elephant gun.

wyldejackyl · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 7205 Location: Chicago, IL

.416 Rigby is a huge bullet..and expensive as all hell. ;)

Some hunters use "assault" rifles..just not on full auto. Do you really want that much lead in your meat? If you're skilled, it shouldn't take more than one shot anyway. If you are going to perforate your meat, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

Jefferson · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3218

lilwolf wrote: It easier to hit your target with one bullet being fired instead of 20 or 30 all at once. You know barrel climb and such.
Spray and pray works if you are in a real close area where you can (say) fire into a room and just let lead fly. But out in the open it's much better to have control and proper aim. Easier to lead on your target if needed as well.

Ahhh? Let me see. Hunters shooting fast miss thier targets?

But according to the anti-gunners when you shoot people fast they magically can hit peole. That is why they hate assault rifles.

Jefferson · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3218

britboy wrote: But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Common everyone knows that people who don't like guns are girly-men. It is just common sense. We all know these kind of people rather be picking flowers and decorating thier bathrooms. Then when they get in trouble with criminals, they call people WITH GUNS to help them out.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

Jefferson wrote: britboy wrote: But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Common everyone knows that people who don't like guns are girly-men. It is just common sense. We all know these kind of people rather be picking flowers and decorating thier bathrooms. Then when they get in trouble with criminals, they call people WITH GUNS to help them out.

Hehe a low shot (excuse the pun) even by your standards Jefferson.

As some old karate expert probably once said 'Better the man that lives with humility, then the one that forces the criminal to fire back'.

Besides -- you may find this amazing .. but if I called the cops the ones that responded .. they wouldn't have guns either!

The whole concept is (in theory) make the criminal aware he doesn't need to bring a gun to the scene of his crime.

Now's the bit you really won't understand -- it kind of works .. they don't bring a gun!

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

britboy wrote: Jefferson wrote: britboy wrote: But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Common everyone knows that people who don't like guns are girly-men. It is just common sense. We all know these kind of people rather be picking flowers and decorating thier bathrooms. Then when they get in trouble with criminals, they call people WITH GUNS to help them out.

Hehe a low shot (excuse the pun) even by your standards Jefferson.

As some old karate expert probably once said 'Better the man that lives with humility, then the one that forces the criminal to fire back'.

Besides -- you may find this amazing .. but if I called the cops the ones that responded .. they wouldn't have guns either!

The whole concept is (in theory) make the criminal aware he doesn't need to bring a gun to the scene of his crime.

Now's the bit you really won't understand -- it kind of works .. they don't bring a gun!

However, if you are a small woman, and the criminal is a big man, you are helpless if unarmed.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

perdidochas wrote: britboy wrote: Jefferson wrote: britboy wrote: But fully auto's feel cool to use and make you feel tough, like the main man, and have 'tough guy' names and styling. So, rock on!

We all know these are the two most important things with regards to gun manufacture. God forbid the manufacturer that produces a weapon that the 'wish I was tougher/cooler so need a gun' crowd didn't like ... no-one would buy it!

Common everyone knows that people who don't like guns are girly-men. It is just common sense. We all know these kind of people rather be picking flowers and decorating thier bathrooms. Then when they get in trouble with criminals, they call people WITH GUNS to help them out.

Hehe a low shot (excuse the pun) even by your standards Jefferson.

As some old karate expert probably once said 'Better the man that lives with humility, then the one that forces the criminal to fire back'.

Besides -- you may find this amazing .. but if I called the cops the ones that responded .. they wouldn't have guns either!

The whole concept is (in theory) make the criminal aware he doesn't need to bring a gun to the scene of his crime.

Now's the bit you really won't understand -- it kind of works .. they don't bring a gun!

However, if you are a small woman, and the criminal is a big man, you are helpless if unarmed.

However if you have a gun .. the criminal is gonna come packing, and shoot you dead if necessary. If you haven't, he needn't bother -- he can overpower you if he really has to.

If I was gonna burgle (spelling) a house with people inside -- if they had a gun .. I'd take one to defend my ass .. If they didn't -- I wouldn't bother -- too much chance of things getting out of hand -- I'd stick with overpowering them (if they wake up) non-fatally.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

perdidochas wrote: airo wrote: perdidochas wrote: micfranklin wrote: I'm under the impression that a hunter or poacher (which disgust me thoroughly) doesn't need an assault rifle to kill an animal. That'd be wasting some precious ammo.

If you're an African soldier, and happen to have an assault rifle issued to you, and your government pay is low, of course you're going to use an assault rifle. A clip full of government-issued 7.62 Nato is free. A clip full of elephant gun cartridges will cost more than a black market assault rifle.

50 rounds of .45-70, elephant and big game handloads, can run anywhere from 70-140 dollars.

That's a LOT of money for 50 rounds of ammunition.

Yep, and .45-70 isn't elephant ammunition, it's not nearly as powerful as what most would consider an elephant gun.

I have a friend who just set two world records...

He took the big six with a lever action... and using .45-70. Two things which have never been done before :shock:

I guess someone forgot to tell him you can't shoot elephants with .45-70!