Political Crossfire Forums

[Patriot911]

I am sitting here watching a show on the history channel called The Miracle of Stairwell B. It is an absolutely amazing show and I highly recommend it.

It is about the 14 firefighters and civilians caught in Stairwell B during the collapse of the North tower. It is hard to believe ANYONE could have survived the collapse of the tower, but a number of firefighters did.

Watching some of the footage one has to wonder how conspiracy theorists can sit there and say such ridiculously stupid sh*t as the fires weren't that bad or that there were explosions especially at the base.

These men who are talking throughout this program were there and lived through it. They weren't close to the building, they were IN the building.

So what did they describe? Explosions? No. They were close to the ground (one group on the 4th floor and one group on the second) floor, yet neither heard nor felt any explosions.

They DID, however, describe in great detail the sound of each floor as it collapsed. How they could hear the progressive collapse as it approached. No cutting charges. No talk of thermate. Just the sound of steel shrieking before it gave way and then the collapse.

There was another horrific point the program makes. Bull has often pointed at a picture of a lone woman standing in the hole made by the plane when it entered the building. His claim was that the fires weren't that bad because she was there and in the cropped version you couldn't really see any other fires.

So what was the horrific point the program makes? The greatest danger to fire fighters before the collapse was the risk of being hit by people who had jumped to their deaths. Think about it. What would make you jump 90+ stories to your death? This was before either tower had collapsed, so it probably wasn't the thought of the building collapsing on you. The only thing I can think of is an inferno of unimaginable intensity that would remove ALL hope of escape. In other words these people who jumped felt there was NO chance of life, just a choice of how to die: die by immolation in fire or die by jumping to your death.

Listening to the stories of these brave men and what they went through brings back many of the feelings and horrors of that day, but it also shows the amazing amount of heroism these men showed in doing their jobs. 343 firefighters and numerous other rescue workers died on 9/11, yet some people in this forum say the firefighters were in on the conspiracy.

It is this kind of ignorance that fuels my desire to show the 9/11 conspiracies for what they really are; lies based on other lies based on bad assumptions and misinformation. Conspiracy theorists say fires couldn't possibly be hot enough to weaken steel, yet video footage clearly shows raging infernos on many floors and even areas where the outer steel is glowing red hot. Conspiracy theorists say the collapse HAD to have been done with explosives on multiple floors and at the base, yet firefighters that survived the collapse clearly state that what they heard was the collapse above them and the noise as each floor collapsed from the weight above. No mention of explosions, much less explosions caused by high explosives.

So I challenge all you people who believe the conspiracy theories. I've watched your videos, so now its time to watch one of mine. See if you can honestly watch this video and still believe that explosives were used. That the fires were exaggerated. That the bases were blown. Or any of the other theories about the collapse of the towers. Listen to the stories of the people who were there, not the speculation of people who are guessing or have monetary gains at stake. Trust me. The story is worth it even if you insist on holding on to your theories.

[psholtz]

Do you obtain all your news and information through the TV set?? :-D



I wouldn't go so far as to say that *everything* you see on TV is a lie. Certainly, this program you describe has some elements of truth to it. But it also presents a highly biased and propagandized view of a very emotionally charged historical event.

The only obvious purpose in airing this show is to further propagandize the American public..

And people have the nerve to call me a "conspiracy" theorist.. :lol:

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: Conspiracy theorists say the collapse HAD to have been done with explosives on multiple floors and at the base, yet firefighters that survived the collapse clearly state that what they heard was the collapse above them and the noise as each floor collapsed from the weight above. No mention of explosions, much less explosions caused by high explosives.
I watched part of this program last night (I'm traveling on holiday, and so I have access to a TV set). I saw the bit that you're talking about here.

You do realize that you're spinning this as badly as the TV program was?

Were the firefighters ever questioned about explosives going off the building? I don't think they were (although I didn't see the entire program).

Yes, the firefighters talk about floors pancaking, and no, none of the video where they might have talked about explosives made it into the final cut. It's lost for all time, no doubt, on the floor of some editing room deep in the bowels of some Hollywood post-production studio. But that doesn't mean the fighterfighters didn't hear explosions, and it doesn't mean they didn't talk about it.

It just means such comments didn't make the final cut.

If this were a court of law, you'd be charged w/ leading the witness.. :wink:

[Patriot911]

LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: Listen to the stories of the people who were there, not the speculation of people who are guessing or have monetary gains at stake. Trust me. The story is worth it even if you insist on holding on to your theories.
Sorry, but I *never* trust anyone who says "trust me".. :lol:

In one fell swoop, you just destroyed any credibility you may have had.

I don't ask people to trust me. I ask people to go out and do the research for themselves, and see what they come back w/. Generally speakng, the research people come back w/ corrobates the same general things I've been saying, and so by this process people come to trust themselves and to trust their own sense of investigation and curiosity.

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)
We have firefighters on public record stating that they heard explosions going off the WTC just before the buildings came down. The fact that this information didn't come out in your video is just more evidence that the globalist controllers got their grubby little mitts on the video before it was aired.

btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

[BigOMG]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)
We have firefighters on public record stating that they heard explosions going off the WTC just before the buildings came down. The fact that this information didn't come out in your video is just more evidence that the globalist controllers got their grubby little mitts on the video before it was aired.

btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

But has anyone asked them if the are certain they were explosions from explosives or the sound of 3 inch steel encased in cement snapping? I've heard branches in a tree break that sound exactly like a sniper rifle. And yes, I do know exactly, from experience, what a sniper rifle sounds like.

[Patriot911]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Listen to the stories of the people who were there, not the speculation of people who are guessing or have monetary gains at stake. Trust me. The story is worth it even if you insist on holding on to your theories.
Sorry, but I *never* trust anyone who says "trust me".. :lol:

In one fell swoop, you just destroyed any credibility you may have had.

I don't ask people to trust me. I ask people to go out and do the research for themselves, and see what they come back w/. Generally speakng, the research people come back w/ corrobates the same general things I've been saying, and so by this process people come to trust themselves and to trust their own sense of investigation and curiosity.

All I am asking you to trust me on is that the stories these men tell are worth listening to. The fact that you would base my credibility on this one statement shows just how frivolous and biased your perception of someone's credibility is.

So I asked you to trust me that this piece is a good piece of material that gives you many facts you might not have been aware of. Seems to me I am giving you what you want. Research material.

As for your "research people".... :rofl: They are a massive joke. They lie repeatedly yet you insist on believing them. Sounds to me like the joke is on you.

[Free Thinkr]

BigOMG wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)
We have firefighters on public record stating that they heard explosions going off the WTC just before the buildings came down. The fact that this information didn't come out in your video is just more evidence that the globalist controllers got their grubby little mitts on the video before it was aired.

btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

But has anyone asked them if the are certain they were explosions from explosives or the sound of 3 inch steel encased in cement snapping? I've heard branches in a tree break that sound exactly like a sniper rifle. And yes, I do know exactly, from experience, what a sniper rifle sounds like.
Oh whatever, elite-controlled-bot: we all know that that was no branch breaking, but was, in reality, the elite's time traveling sniper rifle, which was in fact the source of the Kennedy head shot. Nice try though.

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Listen to the stories of the people who were there, not the speculation of people who are guessing or have monetary gains at stake. Trust me. The story is worth it even if you insist on holding on to your theories.
Sorry, but I *never* trust anyone who says "trust me".. :lol:

In one fell swoop, you just destroyed any credibility you may have had.

I don't ask people to trust me. I ask people to go out and do the research for themselves, and see what they come back w/. Generally speakng, the research people come back w/ corrobates the same general things I've been saying, and so by this process people come to trust themselves and to trust their own sense of investigation and curiosity.

All I am asking you to trust me on is that the stories these men tell are worth listening to. The fact that you would base my credibility on this one statement shows just how frivolous and biased your perception of someone's credibility is.

So I asked you to trust me that this piece is a good piece of material that gives you many facts you might not have been aware of. Seems to me I am giving you what you want. Research material.

As for your "research people".... :rofl: They are a massive joke. They lie repeatedly yet you insist on believing them. Sounds to me like the joke is on you.
That's the thing, though.

I'm not even sure this History Channel program is worth watching.

It's just more government propaganda.

There may be some truth buried away in it here and there, but on the whole not enough to make it worth the time it takes to watch it.

[BigOMG]

Free Thinkr wrote: BigOMG wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)
We have firefighters on public record stating that they heard explosions going off the WTC just before the buildings came down. The fact that this information didn't come out in your video is just more evidence that the globalist controllers got their grubby little mitts on the video before it was aired.

btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

But has anyone asked them if the are certain they were explosions from explosives or the sound of 3 inch steel encased in cement snapping? I've heard branches in a tree break that sound exactly like a sniper rifle. And yes, I do know exactly, from experience, what a sniper rifle sounds like.
Oh whatever, elite-controlled-bot: we all know that that was no branch breaking, but was, in reality, the elite's time traveling sniper rifle, which was in fact the source of the Kennedy head shot. Nice try though.


:rotf:

[Patriot911]

BigOMG wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: LOL! Nice try! If those firefighters heard explosions that they thought were caused by explosives, they would be jumping up and down trying to get EVERYONE'S attention. After all, they lost hundreds of their fellow firefighters. Assuming you had a friend, wouldn't you be upset if you lost him due to a conspiracy? Wouldn't you want to tell someone?

I love how you claim the obviously heartfelt and painful testimony of those who survived the WTC collapse was propagandized. There was no bias that I could see. They didn't dwell on who did it or why or anything like that. They simply reported on the events of the day and then let the firefighters tell their stories.

Or are they part of the conspiracy too? :shock: Damn! The "elites" had people that they purposefully collapsed the building on some people they planted just so they could tell everyone they heard the pancaking but not say they heard explosions! WOO!!!! Those crafty "elites"!

And to answer your question, I obtain some information from TV, newspapers, the Internet, Blogs and all sorts of sources. If something doesn't seem right, I research it and see if someone is lying or stretching the truth. Of course, unlike you, I know that not EVERY conspiracy theory that comes down the pike is true. ;-)
We have firefighters on public record stating that they heard explosions going off the WTC just before the buildings came down. The fact that this information didn't come out in your video is just more evidence that the globalist controllers got their grubby little mitts on the video before it was aired.

btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

But has anyone asked them if the are certain they were explosions from explosives or the sound of 3 inch steel encased in cement snapping? I've heard branches in a tree break that sound exactly like a sniper rifle. And yes, I do know exactly, from experience, what a sniper rifle sounds like.

But don't you see, BigOMG?!? Conspiracy theorists like Psholtz know EXACTLY what causes every sound, what every molten metal is made of even though they can only see it from a video thousands of feet away and of course they know exactly what Silverstein meant when he said "pull it". There is no middle ground. The sounds can be nothing other than explosives. The metal can be nothing other than thermite (thermate). Silverstein meant demolish WTC 7 when he said "pull it". There IS no other explanation to these people.

And of course he failed miserably to address the fact that if the firefighters thought there were bombs in the building that they would be jumping up and down to get their story out. :lol:

His rebuttal? They should have made the point to come out and say there were no bombs. :roll: Of course, the program wasn't ABOUT the conspiracy theories so there was no reason for them to expressly deny there were bombs. They simply told their stories and not one of their stories had anything whatsoever to do with explosions or bombs.

[Patriot911]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Listen to the stories of the people who were there, not the speculation of people who are guessing or have monetary gains at stake. Trust me. The story is worth it even if you insist on holding on to your theories.
Sorry, but I *never* trust anyone who says "trust me".. :lol:

In one fell swoop, you just destroyed any credibility you may have had.

I don't ask people to trust me. I ask people to go out and do the research for themselves, and see what they come back w/. Generally speakng, the research people come back w/ corrobates the same general things I've been saying, and so by this process people come to trust themselves and to trust their own sense of investigation and curiosity.

All I am asking you to trust me on is that the stories these men tell are worth listening to. The fact that you would base my credibility on this one statement shows just how frivolous and biased your perception of someone's credibility is.

So I asked you to trust me that this piece is a good piece of material that gives you many facts you might not have been aware of. Seems to me I am giving you what you want. Research material.

As for your "research people".... :rofl: They are a massive joke. They lie repeatedly yet you insist on believing them. Sounds to me like the joke is on you.
That's the thing, though.

I'm not even sure this History Channel program is worth watching.

It's just more government propaganda.

There may be some truth buried away in it here and there, but on the whole not enough to make it worth the time it takes to watch it.

Must be nice living in denial where you can claim any and every source that doesn't agree with you is just government propaganda.

So when did the History channel become a government run channel? If they run a program on the conspiracy theory are you going to suddenly flip flop and decide they are a credible source? :lol: You're so obviously blinded by your own irrational biases that it is a wonder you can even recognize any aspect of reality anymore.

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: Must be nice living in denial where you can claim any and every source that doesn't agree with you is just government propaganda.

So when did the History channel become a government run channel? If they run a program on the conspiracy theory are you going to suddenly flip flop and decide they are a credible source? :lol: You're so obviously blinded by your own irrational biases that it is a wonder you can even recognize any aspect of reality anymore.
I would say pretty much everything on TV is government propaganda.

That doesn't mean that everything on TV is a lie, but it does mean that everything on TV is meant to mislead.

I wouldn't waste your time watching it. Generally speaking, I don't..

[Patriot911]

:shifty: Your paranoia knows no bounds......

But then again, most people understand that TV isn't run by the goverment and therefore isn't propaganda. Like I said, it is convenient to be able to deny everything just by claiming it is government propaganda, but eventually people figure out that it is just you living in denial and not something even remotely resembling reality.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

Nor did they expressly deny Godzilla, King Kong - both who have a history of this kind of behaviour. Aliens or God index finger.

[BigOMG]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: btw, the firefighters in your video never EXPRESSLY DENIED that there were bombs in the buildings, and that's the important thing to bear in mind.

Nor did they expressly deny Godzilla, King Kong - both who have a history of this kind of behaviour. Aliens or God index finger.

Thanks MG, I really needed that laugh. :rotf: :rotf:

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: :shifty: Your paranoia knows no bounds......

But then again, most people understand that TV isn't run by the goverment and therefore isn't propaganda. Like I said, it is convenient to be able to deny everything just by claiming it is government propaganda, but eventually people figure out that it is just you living in denial and not something even remotely resembling reality.
TV is run by the same corporations that run the government.

Pretty much everything on TV is propaganda.

[JohnM]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: :shifty: Your paranoia knows no bounds......

But then again, most people understand that TV isn't run by the goverment and therefore isn't propaganda. Like I said, it is convenient to be able to deny everything just by claiming it is government propaganda, but eventually people figure out that it is just you living in denial and not something even remotely resembling reality.
TV is run by the same corporations that run the government.

Pretty much everything on TV is propaganda.
Yes, indeed. Can you please tell those damn Zionists to quit spewing their hatred via my porn box?

[JohnM]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: :shifty: Your paranoia knows no bounds......

But then again, most people understand that TV isn't run by the goverment and therefore isn't propaganda. Like I said, it is convenient to be able to deny everything just by claiming it is government propaganda, but eventually people figure out that it is just you living in denial and not something even remotely resembling reality.
TV is run by the same corporations that run the government.

Pretty much everything on TV is propaganda.
What isn't propeganda? And what TV Corporations are owned by the government? Yew haven't provided a shred of evidence yet.