Political Crossfire Forums

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Opinions needed:
Why would God want to keep the secret of life from man after he was created?
God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?
Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?
Was it for our own good, or not?
Or is there another reason why God didn't want man to eat from that specific tree?

Just curious - discuss?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Who said anything about the secret of life?

The knowledge of good and evil is gained by life as we know it. We are experiencing good and evil.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

cap'n queasy wrote: Who said anything about the secret of life?

The knowledge of good and evil is gained by life as we know it. We are experiencing good and evil.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil had ...knowledge. Is that not is to be gathered from the bible? If so, there are things in there that God didn't want people to see. Was that a selfish act on his part, or a selfless act? What in the tree of knowledge did he not want people to know about?
Is there a secrete? Is there a scheme we are not to know about? Is everything we have been taught wrong? Is this why the Gnostic gospels were 'thrown out' because they spoke of knowledge, truth and understanding, not the mystical side of god in the current bible?
Or does god just know something that he is protecting us from that was part of the tree? If so, why did he offer the tree in the first place?

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

The Bible also says that if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life after they have ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they would be like gods themselves so he order angels to guard it. That may have been his purpose for no letting them eat. Many think the tree was a figure of speach and not a physcial tree, do a search on tree of life, you'll easily find a diagram.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Roman wrote: The Bible also says that if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life after they have ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they would be like gods themselves so he order angels to guard it. That may have been his purpose for no letting them eat. Many think the tree was a figure of speach and not a physcial tree, do a search on tree of life, you'll easily find a diagram.

I personally believe it was a figure of speech. Even so, why was it 'planted' there in the first place? Seems to me that if they shouldn't have eaten from it, he shouldn't have planted it there unless it served a purpose.
The whole 'be like gods themselves' seems to point me in the direction of a god of self preservation. To keep them unlike him (perhaps even under his thumb), he teased them with the tree but didn't allow them to eat off of it.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

toddytodd wrote: Roman wrote: The Bible also says that if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life after they have ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they would be like gods themselves so he order angels to guard it. That may have been his purpose for no letting them eat. Many think the tree was a figure of speach and not a physcial tree, do a search on tree of life, you'll easily find a diagram.

I personally believe it was a figure of speech. Even so, why was it 'planted' there in the first place? Seems to me that if they shouldn't have eaten from it, he shouldn't have planted it there unless it served a purpose.
The whole 'be like gods themselves' seems to point me in the direction of a god of self preservation. To keep them unlike him (perhaps even under his thumb), he teased them with the tree but didn't allow them to eat off of it.

he didn't want his creations to know evil. he wanted them to remain like the angels he modeled them after.

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

Todd,

do a search on the tree of life and you'll gain another perspective.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

The Comrade wrote: Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.
Surely he must have known what was going to happen to them because of the tree, being it was part of his plan and such. One would think there was another, better way around it then.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Roman wrote: Todd,

do a search on the tree of life and you'll gain another perspective.

I will but I want to get other's opinions as well.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.
Surely he must have known what was going to happen to them because of the tree, being it was part of his plan and such. One would think there was another, better way around it then.

did you forget about the serpent of temptation?

the one thing god doesn't have control over is the devil.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: Roman wrote: The Bible also says that if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life after they have ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they would be like gods themselves so he order angels to guard it. That may have been his purpose for no letting them eat. Many think the tree was a figure of speach and not a physcial tree, do a search on tree of life, you'll easily find a diagram.

I personally believe it was a figure of speech. Even so, why was it 'planted' there in the first place? Seems to me that if they shouldn't have eaten from it, he shouldn't have planted it there unless it served a purpose.
The whole 'be like gods themselves' seems to point me in the direction of a god of self preservation. To keep them unlike him (perhaps even under his thumb), he teased them with the tree but didn't allow them to eat off of it.

he didn't want his creations to know evil. he wanted them to remain like the angels he modeled them after.
But humans aren't like angles because we are redeemed. Isn't there a part of the bible that says angles will fold their wings when the redeemed sings in heaven?

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.
Surely he must have known what was going to happen to them because of the tree, being it was part of his plan and such. One would think there was another, better way around it then.

did you forget about the serpent of temptation?

the one thing god doesn't have control over is the devil.
Fundamental breaking point there - I was taught God has control over everything that was, is and will come. The devil can only act within the boundaries that God allows him to act in.
But forget that - are you saying that the devil/serpent was not part of the plan?

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

toddytodd wrote: But humans aren't like angles because we are redeemed. Isn't there a part of the bible that says angles will fold their wings when the redeemed sings in heaven?

we are modeled exactly as angles(minus the wings). that is why lucifer left heaven. when god created man in the likeness of lucifer and the other angels, lucifer felt that they were no longer gods chosen.

then you have lucifer leaving heaven and taking angels with him.

then, with adam and eve, lucifer desguises himself as a snake in order to "get back" at man

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.
Surely he must have known what was going to happen to them because of the tree, being it was part of his plan and such. One would think there was another, better way around it then.

did you forget about the serpent of temptation?

the one thing god doesn't have control over is the devil.
Fundamental breaking point there - I was taught God has control over everything that was, is and will come. The devil can only act within the boundaries that God allows him to act in.
But forget that - are you saying that the devil/serpent was not part of the plan?

of course not.

this is evidence in lucifers eratic behavior when he left heaven.

do you think god wanted to lose his most beloved angel and his followers? do you think god wanted a place like hell?

of course not. his original intent for man was ultimate good in the garden of eden. the devil ruined this, and god was forced to act. the "unclean"cannot be allowed into heaven, so now you have hell, which is given to lucifer.

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: But humans aren't like angles because we are redeemed. Isn't there a part of the bible that says angles will fold their wings when the redeemed sings in heaven?

we are modeled exactly as angles(minus the wings). that is why lucifer left heaven. when god created man in the likeness of lucifer and the other angels, lucifer felt that they were no longer gods chosen.

then you have lucifer leaving heaven and taking angels with him.

then, with adam and eve, lucifer desguises himself as a snake in order to "get back" at man

where in the Bible does it say Lucifer desguises himself as a snake?

It says a serpent tempted eve but does not correlate it with anyone else.

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: The Comrade wrote: Quote: God told man not to eat from a certain tree. Why was that?

god did not want adam and eve to know the other half of existence as it wouldn't make them perfect.

Quote: Was he afraid or concerned that we would learn something that he didn't want us to know?

he didn't want the knowlege of evil to taint his most perfect creation.

Quote: Was it for our own good, or not?

do you like evil?

of course not. thus, it was meant for our own good.
Surely he must have known what was going to happen to them because of the tree, being it was part of his plan and such. One would think there was another, better way around it then.

did you forget about the serpent of temptation?

the one thing god doesn't have control over is the devil.
Fundamental breaking point there - I was taught God has control over everything that was, is and will come. The devil can only act within the boundaries that God allows him to act in.
But forget that - are you saying that the devil/serpent was not part of the plan?

Todd,

The Gnostics may have been right. They beleive we created by an imperfect God which may fill int he blanks for the god of the OT. They also beleive that a perfect God exists, the true God, a God of transidentalism which may be related to the merciful god of the NT. I'm starting to believe this in my own faith, it seems to fill in some of the blanks.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

Roman wrote: The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: But humans aren't like angles because we are redeemed. Isn't there a part of the bible that says angles will fold their wings when the redeemed sings in heaven?

we are modeled exactly as angles(minus the wings). that is why lucifer left heaven. when god created man in the likeness of lucifer and the other angels, lucifer felt that they were no longer gods chosen.

then you have lucifer leaving heaven and taking angels with him.

then, with adam and eve, lucifer desguises himself as a snake in order to "get back" at man

where in the Bible does it say Lucifer desguises himself as a snake?

It says a serpent tempted eve but does not correlate it with anyone else.

the devil aka satan aka lucifer is consdered the tempter.

i didn't mean a literal disguise. lucifer didn't make a snake costume to try and trick them.

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

The Comrade wrote: Roman wrote: The Comrade wrote: toddytodd wrote: But humans aren't like angles because we are redeemed. Isn't there a part of the bible that says angles will fold their wings when the redeemed sings in heaven?

we are modeled exactly as angles(minus the wings). that is why lucifer left heaven. when god created man in the likeness of lucifer and the other angels, lucifer felt that they were no longer gods chosen.

then you have lucifer leaving heaven and taking angels with him.

then, with adam and eve, lucifer desguises himself as a snake in order to "get back" at man

where in the Bible does it say Lucifer desguises himself as a snake?

It says a serpent tempted eve but does not correlate it with anyone else.

the devil aka satan aka lucifer is consdered the tempter.

i didn't mean a literal disguise. lucifer didn't make a snake costume to try and trick them.

wasn't a personal attack, I've always wondered why it was interpreted that way becuz the way you say it was the way I was taught as a child. where is the devil, satan, and lucifer correlated in the Bible? If there is a transition of this diety where does it take place? It is vaguely mention from what I've read but not exactly sure thats why i ask.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

toddytodd wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Who said anything about the secret of life?

The knowledge of good and evil is gained by life as we know it. We are experiencing good and evil.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil had ...knowledge. Is that not is to be gathered from the bible? If so, there are things in there that God didn't want people to see. Was that a selfish act on his part, or a selfless act? What in the tree of knowledge did he not want people to know about?
Is there a secrete? Is there a scheme we are not to know about? Is everything we have been taught wrong? Is this why the Gnostic gospels were 'thrown out' because they spoke of knowledge, truth and understanding, not the mystical side of god in the current bible?
Or does god just know something that he is protecting us from that was part of the tree? If so, why did he offer the tree in the first place?
Read Ecclesiastes.