Political Crossfire Forums

[Drey]

I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

[Gilbert1908]

Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

I'm sure you are the one perfect human in both form and matter.

"A thing is said to be natural if it proceeds from the principles of nature. Now the essential principles of nature are form and matter. The form of man is his rational soul, which is, of itself, immortal: wherefore death is not natural to man on the part of his form. The matter of man is a body such as is composed of contraries, of which corruptibility is a necessary consequence, and in this respect death is natural to man. Now this condition attached to the nature of the human body results from a natural necessity, since it was necessary for the human body to be the organ of touch, and consequently a mean between objects of touch: and this was impossible, were it not composed of contraries, as the Philosopher states (De Anima ii, 11). On the other hand, this condition is not attached to the adaptability of matter to form because, if it were possible, since the form is incorruptible, its matter should rather be incorruptible. On the same way a saw needs to be of iron, this being suitable to its form and action, so that its hardness may make it fit for cutting. But that it be liable to rust is a necessary result of such a matter and is not according to the agent's choice; for, if the craftsman were able, of the iron he would make a saw that would not rust. Now God Who is the author of man is all-powerful, wherefore when He first made man, He conferred on him the favor of being exempt from the necessity resulting from such a matter: which favor, however, was withdrawn through the sin of our first parents. Accordingly death is both natural on account of a condition attaching to matter, and penal on account of the loss of the Divine favor preserving man from death [Cf. I-II, 85, 6. " Summa Theologica

[Kt]

Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?
To jehova any sin is worthy of execution.

[toddytodd]

Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It would appear to me (not being a christian scholar by any means) that the popular Christian belief is to admit your sins (sins which seems to be inbred - which is open for another debate) and accept the sacrifice of Jesus, (which, being the 'ultimate sacrifice' takes place of the traditional sacrifices of ages past), and then follow his teachings from that point forward, to the best of your abilities.
That rather simple (albeit long winded) sentence is loaded with 'ifs' and 'buts' as seen by the many different branches, rules and beliefs of Christianity. Thus, I have concluded that, at least for myself, I follow my own understanding of Christianity.
I have accepted the fact that I am not perfect (far from it), however, I don't' accept the fact that people are destined for hell once they are born, as I refuse to believe that an all loving, all knowing God (as described in the bible) would hold an innocent person guilty of the crimes of their 'parents' (meaning Adam and Eve). The only crime(s) each person is accountable for is, in my opinion, their own. Now rather or not that (those) crime(s) can result in a punishment of death is up to the individual crime I would suppose. But that leads me to think, if God is all loving and all forgiving (if asked), then there really isn't any crime punishable by death, in the sense that death is the 'end all' punishment.

[Aqualung]

Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?
One sin is all it takes. No unlean thing, NO unclean thing, even if it's only slightly unclean, can enter the kingdom of God.

[toddytodd]

CrossEyedMary wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?
One sin is all it takes. No unlean thing, NO unclean thing, even if it's only slightly unclean, can enter the kingdom of God.

What is considered clean and unclean?
Isn't (wasn't) pork considered unclean at one time by some?

[TwinkieDP]

Mine would definitely have to be Masturbation...

[XxMorningStarxX]

toddytodd wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It would appear to me (not being a christian scholar by any means) that the popular Christian belief is to admit your sins (sins which seems to be inbred - which is open for another debate) and accept the sacrifice of Jesus, (which, being the 'ultimate sacrifice' takes place of the traditional sacrifices of ages past), and then follow his teachings from that point forward, to the best of your abilities.
That rather simple (albeit long winded) sentence is loaded with 'ifs' and 'buts' as seen by the many different branches, rules and beliefs of Christianity. Thus, I have concluded that, at least for myself, I follow my own understanding of Christianity.
I have accepted the fact that I am not perfect (far from it), however, I don't' accept the fact that people are destined for hell once they are born, as I refuse to believe that an all loving, all knowing God (as described in the bible) would hold an innocent person guilty of the crimes of their 'parents' (meaning Adam and Eve). The only crime(s) each person is accountable for is, in my opinion, their own. Now rather or not that (those) crime(s) can result in a punishment of death is up to the individual crime I would suppose. But that leads me to think, if God is all loving and all forgiving (if asked), then there really isn't any crime punishable by death, in the sense that death is the 'end all' punishment.

WEll, this brings us to another point of... YES U GUESSED IT: NATURE VS NURTURE.

now the thing about sin is that, now i've read part of the old testament (genesis, exodus) along with some of the New. It seems to me that sometimes these people being punished for their "sins" aren't even aware of it or have done things that aren't even their fault (maybe because GOd did not inform them previously)

FOR EXAMPLE.

in genesis, Abram and his wife Sarai are forced to flee into the kingdom of Egypt due to a natural disaster. Now, Abram meets the pharaoh. He lies and claims that Sarai is his sister and NOT HIS WIFE. the pharaoh takes Sarai as his wife because she's attractive and desirable. Ok, fair enough. What does GOd do? He PUNISHES the pharaoh and gives him some disease. Like, how the hell would the pharaoh (that poor bastard) know any better??? Is this Justice? What kind of standard is this?

SECOND EXAMPLE.

The phillistines, babylonians, Romans, etc. are repeatedly demonized by the Christian Bible. Now i refuse to believe that all of these people knew that they were doing evil. Millions of people do not CHOSE to committ such things if they were educated about Good and Evil. Millions of people are COERCED into it, so It wasn't their fault- it was God's fault for not making clear to them His existence and His economy.

So let's suppose these people WERE born inherently evil. This means it wasn't their fault. This means God shouldn't punish them for something that wasn't their fault.

Either way you look at it (nature OR nuture) it appears to me that this sense of justice appears to be severely twisted. If it is nature, then it is not the fault of the people, if it is NURTURE, it is ALSO not the fault of the people.

If fundamentalist CHristians assign blame to all bad things done in the world to Satan, then why must humans, doomed by the gullibility of Eve to eat the tree of life, be punished for this? Why must a good person be spared if it wasn't their chosing to "house" less of Satan in their hearts?

[MJB]

Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution.

Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. He suffered for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer for them ourselves, if we would repent and accept and follow him. He died, that he might bring about the resurrection of the dead, so that even though we will all die, we will all be resurrected and live again, thus conquering death for us too.

As for sin itself, whether it be large or small, any sin makes us unclean. But by repenting, and accepting Christ's atonement in our behalf and following him, we can be cleansed from our sins, thereby enabling us to return to the presence of God, where no unclean thing can dwell.

[Drey]

MJB wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution.

Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. He suffered for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer for them ourselves, if we would repent and accept and follow him. He died, that he might bring about the resurrection of the dead, so that even though we will all die, we will all be resurrected and live again, thus conquering death for us too.

As for sin itself, whether it be large or small, any sin makes us unclean. But by repenting, and accepting Christ's atonement in our behalf and following him, we can be cleansed from our sins, thereby enabling us to return to the presence of God, where no unclean thing can dwell.

I did get that part about Jesus being a sacrifice to pay for my sins. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes. What I am saying is I honestly have not done anything that would require me to pay for those mistakes with my life.

Like was said earlier Christians claim that God is love. And yet he is represented as requiring us on pain of death to confess to a capital offense and then kills someone who is completely innocent to let me, who he thinks is guilty off. I honestly have not comitted a capital offense. And how could I possibly live with myself if I agreed to let someone who is innocent take the blame for me especially when I didn't do it?

The whole thing seems absurd. A God who claims to be loving, yet is willing to kill anyone for any slight blip in their behavior pattern. Men forced on pain of death to confess to crimes they did not committ. When we see the police do this we are appalled. But the police do that and we are justly appalled.

My question was, however, what is your sin? What horrendous crime have you comitted against God's government that requires you to die?

[Aqualung]

toddytodd wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?
One sin is all it takes. No unlean thing, NO unclean thing, even if it's only slightly unclean, can enter the kingdom of God.

What is considered clean and unclean?
Isn't (wasn't) pork considered unclean at one time by some?
Yes, it was.
Sin is considered unclean.

[Aqualung]

XxMorningStarxX wrote: SECOND EXAMPLE.

The phillistines, babylonians, Romans, etc. are repeatedly demonized by the Christian Bible. Now i refuse to believe that all of these people knew that they were doing evil. Millions of people do not CHOSE to committ such things if they were educated about Good and Evil. Millions of people are COERCED into it, so It wasn't their fault- it was God's fault for not making clear to them His existence and His economy.
I beleive he DID make it clear. The Bible is not very verbose on this subject, since it is simply a record of God's dealing with the Israelites, and the Israelites only, but Amos 9:7 does give support to the idea that God was leading and teaching other peoples as well.

7 Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

[MJB]

Drey wrote: MJB wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution.

Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. He suffered for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer for them ourselves, if we would repent and accept and follow him. He died, that he might bring about the resurrection of the dead, so that even though we will all die, we will all be resurrected and live again, thus conquering death for us too.

As for sin itself, whether it be large or small, any sin makes us unclean. But by repenting, and accepting Christ's atonement in our behalf and following him, we can be cleansed from our sins, thereby enabling us to return to the presence of God, where no unclean thing can dwell.

I did get that part about Jesus being a sacrifice to pay for my sins. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes. What I am saying is I honestly have not done anything that would require me to pay for those mistakes with my life.

Like was said earlier Christians claim that God is love. And yet he is represented as requiring us on pain of death to confess to a capital offense and then kills someone who is completely innocent to let me, who he thinks is guilty off. I honestly have not comitted a capital offense. And how could I possibly live with myself if I agreed to let someone who is innocent take the blame for me especially when I didn't do it?

The whole thing seems absurd. A God who claims to be loving, yet is willing to kill anyone for any slight blip in their behavior pattern. Men forced on pain of death to confess to crimes they did not committ. When we see the police do this we are appalled. But the police do that and we are justly appalled.

My question was, however, what is your sin? What horrendous crime have you comitted against God's government that requires you to die?

As I said, "It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution." That's not what it is, and you thinking that's what Christianity is saying, is where you're making your mistake in the first place.

[Drey]

MJB wrote: Drey wrote: MJB wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution.

Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. He suffered for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer for them ourselves, if we would repent and accept and follow him. He died, that he might bring about the resurrection of the dead, so that even though we will all die, we will all be resurrected and live again, thus conquering death for us too.

As for sin itself, whether it be large or small, any sin makes us unclean. But by repenting, and accepting Christ's atonement in our behalf and following him, we can be cleansed from our sins, thereby enabling us to return to the presence of God, where no unclean thing can dwell.

I did get that part about Jesus being a sacrifice to pay for my sins. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes. What I am saying is I honestly have not done anything that would require me to pay for those mistakes with my life.

Like was said earlier Christians claim that God is love. And yet he is represented as requiring us on pain of death to confess to a capital offense and then kills someone who is completely innocent to let me, who he thinks is guilty off. I honestly have not comitted a capital offense. And how could I possibly live with myself if I agreed to let someone who is innocent take the blame for me especially when I didn't do it?

The whole thing seems absurd. A God who claims to be loving, yet is willing to kill anyone for any slight blip in their behavior pattern. Men forced on pain of death to confess to crimes they did not committ. When we see the police do this we are appalled. But the police do that and we are justly appalled.

My question was, however, what is your sin? What horrendous crime have you comitted against God's government that requires you to die?

As I said, "It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution." That's not what it is, and you thinking that's what Christianity is saying, is where you're making your mistake in the first place.

Well what is one to think when he reads: "The wage of sin is death'. It sure sounds that if you sin then you will die. Are you saying that is not the case?

If, as you have said, I am being executed for something I did not do where is the justice in that? And what crime am I being asked to plead to having committed in order to get off of this charge? Does it not corrupt a person who is forced to confess to a crime he did not committ?

There has to be something that man is being charged with if he is expected to confess to something in order to be let off the hook.

And what about the innocent man that had to be killed? What kind of justice does that show us?

[MJB]

Drey wrote: MJB wrote: Drey wrote: MJB wrote: Drey wrote: I asked the question once as to the purpose of 'Atonement'. The answer I got was an unintelligible babble about a relationship with God that conveyed absolutely no information I could use.

So I worked on the question myself. What I found is this. Please tell me if I am correct.

1. All Christians have to confess to comitting an act that merits their execution.

2. They are then asked to rejoice that Jesus, an innocent man, had to be put forth in his blood i.e. killed, like a lamb gone to slaughter in order for them to get their sorry behinds out of a jam.

I'm asking because I cannot for the life of me look into my past and see where I have ever done anything that would justify having to be executed. I may have screwed up but I have not done anything that a reasonable person would say required my life to settle accounts.

My question is this What was the crime (Crime against the government of God) you comitted that was so terrible that it carried a death sentence?

It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution.

Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. He suffered for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer for them ourselves, if we would repent and accept and follow him. He died, that he might bring about the resurrection of the dead, so that even though we will all die, we will all be resurrected and live again, thus conquering death for us too.

As for sin itself, whether it be large or small, any sin makes us unclean. But by repenting, and accepting Christ's atonement in our behalf and following him, we can be cleansed from our sins, thereby enabling us to return to the presence of God, where no unclean thing can dwell.

I did get that part about Jesus being a sacrifice to pay for my sins. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes. What I am saying is I honestly have not done anything that would require me to pay for those mistakes with my life.

Like was said earlier Christians claim that God is love. And yet he is represented as requiring us on pain of death to confess to a capital offense and then kills someone who is completely innocent to let me, who he thinks is guilty off. I honestly have not comitted a capital offense. And how could I possibly live with myself if I agreed to let someone who is innocent take the blame for me especially when I didn't do it?

The whole thing seems absurd. A God who claims to be loving, yet is willing to kill anyone for any slight blip in their behavior pattern. Men forced on pain of death to confess to crimes they did not committ. When we see the police do this we are appalled. But the police do that and we are justly appalled.

My question was, however, what is your sin? What horrendous crime have you comitted against God's government that requires you to die?

As I said, "It's not about having done things to deserve or merit execution." That's not what it is, and you thinking that's what Christianity is saying, is where you're making your mistake in the first place.

Well what is one to think when he reads: "The wage of sin is death'. It sure sounds that if you sin then you will die. Are you saying that is not the case?

If, as you have said, I am being executed for something I did not do where is the justice in that? And what crime am I being asked to plead to having committed in order to get off of this charge? Does it not corrupt a person who is forced to confess to a crime he did not committ?

There has to be something that man is being charged with if he is expected to confess to something in order to be let off the hook.

And what about the innocent man that had to be killed? What kind of justice does that show us?

When the scriptures say that the wages of sin is death, they mean that sin is incompatible with attaining eternal life.

Eternal life, is living in the very presence of God, and enjoying the quality of life he has, with him, forever. But - because no unclean thing can dwell in his presence - any sin, large or small, terrible or minor, would be spiritual death to us, in that it would prevent us from being able to dwell with him.

That is, unless, there was a way that we could be cleansed from sin and become purified so that we could enter his presence. Well - God provided a way to make that cleansing possible. Because of what Jesus did in our behalf, we can be cleansed and purified, so that we can attain eternal life in God's presence, forever.

It has nothing to do with whether or not any of us have committed a sin so terrible that we would be deserving of a death sentence or execution (though there certainly are some individuals who have been so evil and wretched to deserve such).

[Kt]

TwinkieDP wrote: Mine would definitely have to be Masturbation...
Mine would be telling jehova to go f**k himself.

[Drey]

Helena` wrote: TwinkieDP wrote: Mine would definitely have to be Masturbation...
Mine would be telling jehova to go f**k himself.

I wonder what he's gonna do about me committing adultery. Are my lover and I both going to be killed for loving each other?
I guess if you've got rules theres nothing you can do but enforce them.

Of course if I understand it correctly Jesus was killed for saying that was the wrong approach to situational ethics.

Let's see, his accusers said 'We have a law'.

Jesus said he was Lord even of the 'Sabbath', which in effect said he was a higher authority than the law. Which really made them angry as could be because they really liked their rules. Rules are neat and tidy and you do not need to use your God given judgment. They didn't like him helping others on the Sabbath either. Well they had a law so what can you do? He even helped those whos disease was caused by 'uncleanliness', i.e. 'sin'. Then they began to discredit him for taking a special interest in social outcasts. Eventually it lead to his being unfairly charged with sedition and subsequently murdered.

It should be noted that Jesus was murdered on the basis of a sectarian law.

[LostSoul3412]

My sin is same as all other humans...

Original Sin.

[Drey]

LostSoul3412 wrote: My sin is same as all other humans...

Original Sin.

Can you explain that to someone who actually feels good about being a human.

[John]

Rebellion = Sin


Humans are “sinful” because they naturally rebel against what they are designed to do (which is quite peculiar if you think about it)

Like a watch refusing to tell time.