Political Crossfire Forums

[William Amos]

Here is the man osama himself taking credit for that attacks

So much for the complete lies of the 911 conspiracy crowd. and NO its not the one video you all get hot and bothered about. This one was put on Al Jazeera sent there by osama himself long after that other video.

Video here

http://usamahbinmuhammadbinawadbinladin.com/

Transcript

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Text_of_2004_Osama_bin_Laden_videotape

October 29, 2004, at 21:00 UTC, the Arab television network Al Jazeera broadcast excerpts from a videotape of Osama bin Laden addressing the people of the United States, in which he takes responsibility for the September 11, 2001 attacks, condemns the Bush government's response to those attacks, and presents those attacks as part of a campaign of revenge and deterrence begun after having personally seen destruction in the Lebanese Civil War in 1982.

— Excerpted from 2004 Osama bin Laden video on Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia.

Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed:

Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.

Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example— Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19— may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children—also in Iraq—as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.

You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.

The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?

If you were to avoid these reasons, you will have taken the correct path that will lead America to the security that it was in before September 11th. This concerned the causes of the war.

As for its results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief amongst them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.

Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr to the region.

At a time when some of our compatriots were dazzled by America and hoping that these visits would have an effect on our countries, all of a sudden he was affected by those monarchies and military regimes, and became envious of their remaining decades in their positions, to embezzle the public wealth of the nation without supervision or accounting.

So he took dictatorship and suppression of freedoms to his son and they named it the Patriot Act, under the pretense of fighting terrorism. In addition, Bush sanctioned the installing of sons as state governors, and didn't forget to import expertise in election fraud from the region's presidents to Florida to be made use of in moments of difficulty.

All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two Mujahideen to the furthest point East to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the Mujahideen, bled Russia for ten years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.

Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.

And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ.

And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than 500 billion dollars.

Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the Mujahideen recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan—with Allah's permission.

It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Haliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you.

It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within twenty minutes, before Bush and his administration notice.

It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.

But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers, we were given three times the period required to execute the operations—all praise is due to Allah.

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction—assuming they exist—is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying "like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth".

So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money.

And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Finally, it behooves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched.

Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision." It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes." And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny."

As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."

And know that: "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No.

Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.

And Allah is our Guardian and Helper, while you have no Guardian or Helper. All peace be upon he who follows the Guidance.

[johnflesh]

Heya Amos,

Well since no one is going to reply to this for probably various reasons, I will take a stab at this for discussion's sake.

From wiki, there is other information that states that he didn't have anything to do with 911. All I had ever seen was videos and transcripts saying he did it, and thats what I thought the truth was. But in a little digging I did find this which came out immediatly after 9.11.01:

Quote: Immediately after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, most U.S. government officials named bin Laden and the al-Qaeda organization as the prime suspect. However, bin Laden denied direct responsibility for the attacks, and in an interview for the Karachi-based Pakistani daily newspaper Ummat, published on September 28, 2001, he stated:[citation needed]

Osama bin Laden:
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. […] The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself […] there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups capable of causing such large-scale destruction.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

I have also seen a mass of people who dispute the videos as being fake but invariably have not produced any hard facts to conclude this.

I think bin Laden should be captured, but then again, I am just a citizen. What I really want is this administration to want to capture bin Laden, which they seem to hardly recognize anymore. My guess is that he will be caught right as Bush leaves office, so that an equal can take his place.

After all, the video in 2004 you are refering too was released 4 days before elections between Kerry and Bush. If you have any idea how elections are run and votes are swayed, you can bet this had a lot to do with it, if not just insurance. So, that video could have been from any time, and not to mention it has been disputed that the claims were from another attack at another time. I am not clear on the extent of it, but it was brought up.

This confession on bin ladens only leads to more questions. Why are we not getting this guy? Why is Pakistan a wall at the moment that won't let us pass? Why if 9-11 was mostly Saudi Arabians (15/18) why aren't we over there looking for more? Why aren't they a key player in the war on terror?

Look at this:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/11/13_Laden.html
Notice a pattern? It has made me lose a lot of respect for Bush, but not all.

http://tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html
Why was AlecStation closed out?

What is the ties between Saudi and Bush?

Why would bin Laden in effect, keep Bush in power by going to war with him?

In truth, personally, I don't know what to believe about a lot of the questions, but I think what is most important is that there is questions, and lots of them. Personally, with all the links that have been drawn;

Hitlers use of double-think, propaganda, and fear tactics are evident from both the terrorist and our administration under GWB et al. The use of terroristic implications by Hitler's own army to incite a war are also evident in this administration.

-Gulf of Tonken and the USS Liberty declassified.
-Northwoods Project declassified.
-Project of a New America - new Pearl Harbor needed for Rebuilding of America - never classified.
-OKC Bombing - 2nd and 3rd bombs found INSIDE the building. Every news station reported and you can find this footage on google.

As you can see our own history is filled with terroristic acts that in some cases, are admitted. I could see how bin Laden could stand to gain by the 911 attacks, but I could see now, how everyone benifited, except the innocents. The links that surround all of these conspiracy creates a grand picture and CAN make sense..being that it IS probable. The closer the link between bin Laden and the 911 attacks, the more question that seem to rise and the more I think that it could be a cover up. Perhaps that is why our elected leader has seemingly stepped down on the issue of getting bin Laden. Who is to know what he will say in a court of law.

I don't know what is completely true about 911 Amos, but something smells bad. There is evidence and probability supporting both sides of this arguement and until the verdict is in, I am going to keep asking away as well as stay objectional. Enough of the truth will come out to support one side over the other, but something is missing...

[psholtz]

OBL is on CIA payroll..

CIA perpetrated the attacks of 9/11..

Yes, clearly there's a connection, but OBL is also (just as clearly) not the "lone nut gunman".. There's a web of organization and conspiracy behind the planning and execution of the attacks that extends well beyond some grubby cave in Afghanistan.

[johnflesh]

psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.

[psholtz]

johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

[johnflesh]

psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

No I have not, though I have heard the connection in a few blogs here and there. Where can I see this information? And again, where can I get information concerning bin Laden and the CIA.

Appreciate your time psholtz,
thanks

[NAB]

psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

This is your connection? The family disowned him way back in 1994.

You also realize that Bin Laden Construction is the largest contractor in the entire mid-east? You can't build buildings in the mid-east without crossing their paths, and there aren't many contractors with their kind of capabilities/qualifications in the region either. I've even done work with them in the past in Dubai and Saudi. They are just a big assed company who happens to have an ultra-devout family member with his own delusions of grandeur in mind. I guess his daddy didn't love him very much or pay much attention to him growing up. I guess that happens when you have around 50 siblings..... :?

[psholtz]

johnflesh wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

No I have not, though I have heard the connection in a few blogs here and there. Where can I see this information? And again, where can I get information concerning bin Laden and the CIA.

Appreciate your time psholtz,
thanks
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

[psholtz]

NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

This is your connection? The family disowned him way back in 1994.

You also realize that Bin Laden Construction is the largest contractor in the entire mid-east? You can't build buildings in the mid-east without crossing their paths, and there aren't many contractors with their kind of capabilities/qualifications in the region either. I've even done work with them in the past in Dubai and Saudi. They are just a big assed company who happens to have an ultra-devout family member with his own delusions of grandeur in mind. I guess his daddy didn't love him very much or pay much attention to him growing up. I guess that happens when you have around 50 siblings..... :?
"Disowned" him??

Pretty convinient then that every time he strikes, the famliy wins a new no-bid contract to build more bases, don't you think? :think:

[Patriot911]

Yet another lie from Psholtz. Care to attempt to back THAT assertion up?

[NAB]

psholtz wrote: NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

This is your connection? The family disowned him way back in 1994.

You also realize that Bin Laden Construction is the largest contractor in the entire mid-east? You can't build buildings in the mid-east without crossing their paths, and there aren't many contractors with their kind of capabilities/qualifications in the region either. I've even done work with them in the past in Dubai and Saudi. They are just a big assed company who happens to have an ultra-devout family member with his own delusions of grandeur in mind. I guess his daddy didn't love him very much or pay much attention to him growing up. I guess that happens when you have around 50 siblings..... :?
"Disowned" him??

Pretty convinient then that every time he strikes, the famliy wins a new no-bid contract to build more bases, don't you think? :think:

Yes they publicly disowned him after he had been calling for the overthrow of the Saud government. Very soon after his family's pronouncement the Saudi government also revoked his citizenship. His family's business connections with the Government are immense, so him calling for his family's prime benefactor's overthrow didn't sit to well with them. :wink:

As to your other point on the attacks/no-bid contracts......every time? Gotcha. :?

[psholtz]

NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

This is your connection? The family disowned him way back in 1994.

You also realize that Bin Laden Construction is the largest contractor in the entire mid-east? You can't build buildings in the mid-east without crossing their paths, and there aren't many contractors with their kind of capabilities/qualifications in the region either. I've even done work with them in the past in Dubai and Saudi. They are just a big assed company who happens to have an ultra-devout family member with his own delusions of grandeur in mind. I guess his daddy didn't love him very much or pay much attention to him growing up. I guess that happens when you have around 50 siblings..... :?
"Disowned" him??

Pretty convinient then that every time he strikes, the famliy wins a new no-bid contract to build more bases, don't you think? :think:

Yes they publicly disowned him after he had been calling for the overthrow of the Saud government. Very soon after his family's pronouncement the Saudi government also revoked his citizenship. His family's business connections with the Government are immense, so him calling for his family's prime benefactor's overthrow didn't sit to well with them. :wink:

As to your other point on the attacks/no-bid contracts......every time? Gotcha. :?
Yes, I was aware that they "disowned" him.. I was being sarcastic.. :wink:

Considering how effectively the family profits from the banditry of the black sheep son, I suspect such "disownership" is little more than cosmetic.

[Patriot911]

Once again, care to attempt to prove the Bin Laden family wouldn't have turned a profit without Osama? :rofl: Using the success of the Bin Laden family which was already a success before Osama came along as proof of Osama's collusion with the US government makes about as much sense as saying the more a man's son f*cks up in life, the more successful the man will be. :roll:

Tell me.... do you HONESTLY believe the drivel that you spew?

[johnflesh]

psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

No I have not, though I have heard the connection in a few blogs here and there. Where can I see this information? And again, where can I get information concerning bin Laden and the CIA.

Appreciate your time psholtz,
thanks
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

The link works but the page doesn't:
I get the makeup of their webpage style but no details about bin Laden and CIA connections, I get a prefix to the story then:
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

All other MSNBC pages work fine, something on MSNBC's end.

Got another link?

Thanks.

[NAB]

johnflesh wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz wrote: johnflesh wrote: psholtz,

I have looked up every source I trust on the bin Laden CIA link and the most information I could come up with is that aid sent (via the CIA for whatever reason) was diverted to bin Laden who profited from it. But that was all. Hardly a link but I keep an open mind. Could you be so kind as to link a few articles that have facts listing the links of bin Laden and the CIA. Admitedly, I have nothing on that subject but articles stating it as no link. The few articles I have seen mention of this, simply mentioned it with no explaination or evidence which is hardly resourceful.
Have you read the ones were the bin Laden family (who made their fortune in construction) win all the no-bid contracts to build U.S. military bases throughout the Middle East?

No I have not, though I have heard the connection in a few blogs here and there. Where can I see this information? And again, where can I get information concerning bin Laden and the CIA.

Appreciate your time psholtz,
thanks
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

The link works but the page doesn't:
I get the makeup of their webpage style but no details about bin Laden and CIA connections, I get a prefix to the story then:
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

All other MSNBC pages work fine, something on MSNBC's end.

Got another link?

Thanks.

That same story is constantly getting posted as some form of proof. I personally don't think that story shows any kind of proof that OBL worked for the CIA or USG, but you can judge for yourself. Here's another link of the same story.

msnbc story

For any interested in a detailed and well investigated version of Afghanistan from 1979 to 2001 I might suggest this book. Ghost Wars. It's my personal favorite on this particular issue primarily due to it's unbiased look at that period.

[Gremlin]

Just something i came across in the last 15 minutes....


Quote: On Thursday, August 10, 2006, British authorities announced they had thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several commercial aircraft bound for the United States using explosives smuggled in carry-on baggage. Carry-on luggage was banned in Britain as well as nearly all forms of liquid except for baby formula.

British officials said 21 persons had been arrested in connection with the bombing plot but declined to identify any of them, only stating that they appear to be of Pakistani origin. They said the suspects were homegrown, but it was not clear if the suspects were all British citizens. US Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff immediately said the plot had all the earmarks of an al Qaeda operation but admitted it was too early in the investigation to reach any conclusions. Yet, it was not too early for authorities to say they had caught the main suspects.

News of the plot caused tightened security procedures at all airports, not only in Britain abut also the United States. US air carriers said that while carry-on luggage was still allowed, no liquids, including toothpaste, could be carried onto aircraft. And news of the plot dominated the news channels, distracting from the aggression being practiced in the Middle East, the slumping US economy and the growing public awareness of government complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

Interestingly enough, both British Prime Minister Tony Blair and President George Bush were both out of pocket when the plot was announced. Blair was vacationing in the Caribbean and Bush was on vacation at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Chertoff, who seemed to have more information on the bombing attempts than the British officials who presumably briefed him on the case, said the plotters were in the final stage of planning. We were really getting quite close to the execution phase, he said. No one else in a position of authority and knowledge would speak on the record due to the sensitivity of the situation, according to the Associated Press.

On ABC television, former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke reminded viewers that this was a carbon copy of the 1995 planned terrorist attack formulated by al Qaeda in the Philippines. These plotters also proposed crashing hijacked airliners into the World Trade Center, a fact conveniently forgotten when Bush officials claimed no one could have suspected such an event prior to 9/11. He also mentioned the broken plot in Miami in June, 2006, where seven men were arrested and accused of plotting to bomb Chicagos Sears Tower. Clarke said that British Intelligence is very good and, in fact, had infiltrated the terrorist sleeper cells.

What is the full dimension of the attack? asked Clarke. Many think this is the true question. Who is truly behind these homegrown terrorists?

In the Miami case, it was an FBI informant posing as a representative of al Qaeda, just as the British intelligence agents in the current case. The seven young men arrested in this FBI sting operation were all from Miami's Liberty City, one of the poorest ghettoes in the US. No weapons, explosives or other paraphernalia was found. All evidence in the case came from the al Qaeda representative, according to the governments indictment - who, of course, was the FBI informant. Chicago Police Superintendent Phil Cline stated, There was never any credible threat to the Sears Tower at all. Even FBI Deputy Director John Pistole agreed that this group was more aspirational than operational.

In May, 2006, Pakistani immigrant Shahawar Siraj was found guilty in New York City of plotting to blow up the Herald Square subway station. Court evidence indicated this plot was based entirely on suggestions from an FBI informant, who taunted the defendant with photographs of Abu Ghraib torture victims and demanded to know how, as a Muslim, he could fail to take action. Two years ago, in Albany, New York, the FBI recruited a Pakistani immigrant to ensnare two other immigrants in a fictitious scheme to help a non-existent person buy a weapon for a fake terrorist plot. The immigrant was promised leniency on minor fraud charges in exchange for his cooperation.

In view of these obvious spurious provocations coupled with growing suspicions among the public that the 9/11 attacks themselves were either allowed or conducted by the US Government, Clarkes rhetorical question becomes even more significant - What is the full dimension of the attack?

As in any good crime detection, one must ask, Who benefits from the crime? Who has the means, motive and opportunity to conduct this crime?

One good terrorist strike does not necessitate others. The deaths of 9/11 were enough to convince the public that terrorism was abroad in the land. Further fatalities are not needed to further diminish individual liberties, just the continued threat of such. This can easily be arranged by government agent provocateurs.

For example, say a Pakistani working for British intelligence convenes a group of Pakistanis already bitter about the discrimination they face in Britain. They are taught by the agent to mix chemicals to make explosives and there is much planning to sneak the explosives onto airliners. Then, the trap is sprung and the terrorist threat is thwarted by our brave and vigilant intelligence organizations.

Security everywhere is tightened, liberties further constrained, government budgets increased and everyone is happy except perhaps for the poor patsies who spent the rest of their life in prison trying to figure out how their great revolutionary plan went wrong.

When these acts of terrorism are announced, we should all demand truthful answers to questions such as:

# Which individual initiated the terrorists plans?

# Who did this individual truly represent?

# Who supplied the funds for the terrorists activities and where did such funds originate?

We must not allow ourselves to be played for fools.





Terrorism is theater.

[Patriot911]

Why do you ask these questions, Gremlin? You will never be satisfied with the answers as long as the answers aren't the ones you want.

[Gremlin]

Patriot911 wrote: Why do you ask these questions, Gremlin? You will never be satisfied with the answers as long as the answers aren't the ones you want.


you got it, this ignorance is real, but it can be destroyed.
What I think is irrelevant. What is true, is not.

[johnflesh]

NAB wrote: That same story is constantly getting posted as some form of proof. I personally don't think that story shows any kind of proof that OBL worked for the CIA or USG, but you can judge for yourself. Here's another link of the same story.

msnbc story

For any interested in a detailed and well investigated version of Afghanistan from 1979 to 2001 I might suggest this book. Ghost Wars. It's my personal favorite on this particular issue primarily due to it's unbiased look at that period.

Much appreciated. I haven't found any link from OBL to the CIA that does work and that says something. I will check into this book. Thanks again.