Political Crossfire Forums

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

I was thinking and maybe this is really stupid and ignorant...but i came up with an idea for a new form of government. Hear me out...
What do you all think if we took the top, lets say one hundred for example, students/professors from a random Ivy League school and made them run the country? It needs to be a random university because if it was the same one every four years or so (lets say harvard for instance) then everybody who wants to go into politics would try and get into harvard and everybody who wants to avoid politics would avoid going to harvard. This is why it needs to be a random ivy league school.
I think our country would be much better if we had intellectuals running it that way. And also, maybe we could make the terms only one or two years long so that people who hate being in office dont have to stay very long.
And, we could take people from each major (environment, business, law, etc) so that we have real experts running each department of our government.
Now, maybe this is a dumb idea (and probably not a very plausible one), but let me hear your criticisms and what you think.
Besides, anything must be better than our current form of government (or at least the administration running it), right?

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

No, it is not dumb, as it is essentially an oligarchy. Plus, you have a notion for preventing corruption.

Plato's Republic suggests that a "council of Elders" is the most efficient form of rule as a truly benevolent leader who is disinterested in power is truly rare.

That said, people in the fields of education would also seem to have more at stake by being ineffective leaders, as opposed to politician who return to the private sector and wallow in their corruption.

I have long had a similar thought as you, but with the notion of local "educated electors" - a form of intellectual parliamentary representive system, if you will.

We could likely easily have that in America, if voters were not so stupid and campaigns were not so expensive... our system almost requires one to be prone to corruption in the first place as it is right now. I blame the two main parties for that.... it is mostly party corruption, imho.

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I was thinking and maybe this is really stupid and ignorant...but i came up with an idea for a new form of government. Hear me out...
What do you all think if we took the top, lets say one hundred for example, students/professors from a random Ivy League school and made them run the country? It needs to be a random university because if it was the same one every four years or so (lets say harvard for instance) then everybody who wants to go into politics would try and get into harvard and everybody who wants to avoid politics would avoid going to harvard. This is why it needs to be a random ivy league school.
I think our country would be much better if we had intellectuals running it that way. And also, maybe we could make the terms only one or two years long so that people who hate being in office dont have to stay very long.
And, we could take people from each major (environment, business, law, etc) so that we have real experts running each department of our government.
Now, maybe this is a dumb idea (and probably not a very plausible one), but let me hear your criticisms and what you think.
Besides, anything must be better than our current form of government (or at least the administration running it), right?

Add that to this.

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:55 am Post subject:

Oligarchy, no thanks.

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

thefranzkafkafront wrote: Oligarchy, no thanks.

Yes, you do seem to prefer private, corporate, untouchable monopolies.

obama08 · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 54

Its dumb in the sense we have to pick only random ivy league schools.

Look at the newest issue of TIME magazine...

I agree this would most likely be better than our current administration but most politicians are college educated by ivy leagues or really good(just as good) state universities.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7781

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I was thinking and maybe this is really stupid and ignorant...but i came up with an idea for a new form of government. Hear me out...
What do you all think if we took the top, lets say one hundred for example, students/professors from a random Ivy League school and made them run the country? It needs to be a random university because if it was the same one every four years or so (lets say harvard for instance) then everybody who wants to go into politics would try and get into harvard and everybody who wants to avoid politics would avoid going to harvard. This is why it needs to be a random ivy league school.
I think our country would be much better if we had intellectuals running it that way. And also, maybe we could make the terms only one or two years long so that people who hate being in office dont have to stay very long.
And, we could take people from each major (environment, business, law, etc) so that we have real experts running each department of our government.
Now, maybe this is a dumb idea (and probably not a very plausible one), but let me hear your criticisms and what you think.
Besides, anything must be better than our current form of government (or at least the administration running it), right?

One problem is that those who are selected wouldn't have power... those doing the selecting would. It's not who has power, it's how that attain that power is what defines government.

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

LostSoul3412 wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I was thinking and maybe this is really stupid and ignorant...but i came up with an idea for a new form of government. Hear me out...
What do you all think if we took the top, lets say one hundred for example, students/professors from a random Ivy League school and made them run the country? It needs to be a random university because if it was the same one every four years or so (lets say harvard for instance) then everybody who wants to go into politics would try and get into harvard and everybody who wants to avoid politics would avoid going to harvard. This is why it needs to be a random ivy league school.
I think our country would be much better if we had intellectuals running it that way. And also, maybe we could make the terms only one or two years long so that people who hate being in office dont have to stay very long.
And, we could take people from each major (environment, business, law, etc) so that we have real experts running each department of our government.
Now, maybe this is a dumb idea (and probably not a very plausible one), but let me hear your criticisms and what you think.
Besides, anything must be better than our current form of government (or at least the administration running it), right?

One problem is that those who are selected wouldn't have power... those doing the selecting would. It's not who has power, it's how that attain that power is what defines government.

What part of random do you not understand? No one choses. Let a computer select the scholl and then go on the grades.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5487 Location: Dreamland, NC

Instead of randomly selecting a professor why dont you randomly select a citizen to be president. The president has little power anyway and it would probably in the countries best interest to give the power to someone who wouldn't want it. Certain restrictions would have to be put into place such as they have to be a landowning citizen of at least 35.

But its kind of ignorant to think that a professor knows whats best for this country when most professors have never actually had jobs in the real world. They live in Academia.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7781

David Kelly wrote: What part of random do you not understand? No one choses. Let a computer select the scholl and then go on the grades.

So why should our government be run by a computer?

No thank you. I'll tolerate rule by people before I accept rule by a machine.

melchizedek22 · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 370 Location: Holy Toledo

every possible form of government will fall short,because man is such a imperfect greedy creature,some how, someway,those with the most power will corrupt any and all forms of government!

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

mojo wrote: They live in Academia.

Feel free to drop on by....

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5487 Location: Dreamland, NC

The Impeacher wrote: mojo wrote: They live in Academia.

Feel free to drop on by....

You can have it.

The Impeacher · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2928 Location: Everywhere

mojo wrote: The Impeacher wrote: mojo wrote: They live in Academia.

Feel free to drop on by....

You can have it.

Oh, I can!!??

Goody, perhaps you can start by telling me where it is?

:lol:

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

LostSoul3412 wrote: David Kelly wrote: What part of random do you not understand? No one choses. Let a computer select the scholl and then go on the grades.

So why should our government be run by a computer?

No thank you. I'll tolerate rule by people before I accept rule by a machine.

Uh, maybe you should try reading the post! (Besides, what are Humans but organic machines anyway? Get hit by lightning and you'll go the same way as your computer, only you have a better chance at living to tell the tail.)

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7781

David Kelly wrote: Uh, maybe you should try reading the post!

:roll:

I did read the post. The problem is that those selected won't have power, whomever, or whatever, doing the selecting will. Government isn't defined by who is in power, but by how one achieves power. If a computer selects the individuals, then a computer is in power.

David Kelly wrote: (Besides, what are Humans but organic machines anyway? Get hit by lightning and you'll go the same way as your computer, only you have a better chance at living to tell the tail.)

Machines do not think, machines do not feel, machines do not hunger, machines do not tire, machines to no hate, machines do not desire, machines do not surrender, machines do not know honor, machines do not know glory, machines do not care, machines do not believe, machines do not love.

Humans are nothing like machines.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

LostSoul3412 wrote: David Kelly wrote: Uh, maybe you should try reading the post!

:roll:

I did read the post. The problem is that those selected won't have power, whomever, or whatever, doing the selecting will. Government isn't defined by who is in power, but by how one achieves power. If a computer selects the individuals, then a computer is in power.

David Kelly wrote: (Besides, what are Humans but organic machines anyway? Get hit by lightning and you'll go the same way as your computer, only you have a better chance at living to tell the tail.)

Machines do not think, machines do not feel, machines do not hunger, machines do not tire, machines to no hate, machines do not desire, machines do not surrender, machines do not know honor, machines do not know glory, machines do not care, machines do not believe, machines do not love.

Humans are nothing like machines.

Whats wrong with a computer being in power?
And the differences between computers and humans explain exactly why my government WOULD work.
So thanks for the support :wink:

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

mojo wrote: Instead of randomly selecting a professor why dont you randomly select a citizen to be president. The president has little power anyway and it would probably in the countries best interest to give the power to someone who wouldn't want it. Certain restrictions would have to be put into place such as they have to be a landowning citizen of at least 35.

But its kind of ignorant to think that a professor knows whats best for this country when most professors have never actually had jobs in the real world. They live in Academia.

Thats stupid. Do you realize how many complete morons there are who are over 35 and own land? Would you really be willing to risk some of them landing in our government?
It makes much more sense to assign professors and proven intellectuals. I know that professors and such may not be perfect, but still much smarter than your average citizen.

Quote: Its dumb in the sense we have to pick only random ivy league schools.

Look at the newest issue of TIME magazine...

I agree this would most likely be better than our current administration but most politicians are college educated by ivy leagues or really good(just as good) state universities.

Youre missing the point. Dont get too stuck on the minor details. We can pick from any good college if it makes you happy. The whole point is to expand upon the "council of elders" concept because its the best form of government.

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

Why don't we just talk. You know, like the Athinians? Why don't we just debate in some forum (like we are here, but I mean like a Roman Forum) and make our laws based on what is talked about there?

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5487 Location: Dreamland, NC

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: mojo wrote: Instead of randomly selecting a professor why dont you randomly select a citizen to be president. The president has little power anyway and it would probably in the countries best interest to give the power to someone who wouldn't want it. Certain restrictions would have to be put into place such as they have to be a landowning citizen of at least 35.

But its kind of ignorant to think that a professor knows whats best for this country when most professors have never actually had jobs in the real world. They live in Academia.

Thats stupid. Do you realize how many complete morons there are who are over 35 and own land? Would you really be willing to risk some of them landing in our government?
It makes much more sense to assign professors and proven intellectuals. I know that professors and such may not be perfect, but still much smarter than your average citizen.

I would prefer you didn't start off your argument with "thats stupid". Because the greeks used this system for a short time when electing senators into office. It was actually fairly successful. But the people put in power didn't stay in power very long.

Do you really think professors would be the best choice for a society. Professors are in the business of idealism not pragmatism. It is the ordinary citizen who knows how to really get by in life. Workers are paid to work and professors are paid to think. I tend to think that it is the workers that have a better assesment of everyday life.

Or possibly we could adopt another restriction such as the person would have to be elderly as well. As suggested by Plato in the "Republic".