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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Magical Thinking |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking
This particular passage caught my eye.
Noting the great similarity of magical thinking in all types of human societies and eras of recorded history, some cognitive scientists suggest that these ways of thinking are intrinsic to humanity. Many articles in neuroscience have shown that the human brain excels at pattern matching, but that humans do not have a good filter for distinguishing between perceived patterns and actual patterns. Thus, people often are led to see "relationships" between actions that don't actually exist, creating a magical belief. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| This should be in alternative theories. |
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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: This should be in alternative theories.
That's just a conspiracy nut board with a fancy name. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: Thus, people often are led to see "relationships" between actions that don't actually exist,
What do you think that is? |
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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Thus, people often are led to see "relationships" between actions that don't actually exist,
What do you think that is?
Oh, I see what you're saying: it ALSO belongs on the conspiracy theory board. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: good filter for distinguishing between perceived patterns and actual patterns.
It seems to me that this is accurate description of the mental process behind the conspiratorial speculation that is quite common now. |
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Ek0nomik
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: La Fleur
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: |
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cap'n queasy wrote: This should be in alternative theories.
Why? It's not a theory, it's a fact.
Humans form relationships based upon given knowledge. This relationship may not even be true, but given the data surrounding the individual, a conclusion is formed. |
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JDHURF
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 4044
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| This is an accurate theory. As Ek0nomik points out it isn’t really in dispute. The “impossible triangle” created by Richard Gregory illustrates this point rather brilliantly. If one is interested in this line of inquiry I highly suggest Religion Explained by Pascal Boyer (anthropologist), which is considered by some and vocalized by Steven Pinker as: “the most important treatment of the psychological basis of religious belief since William James.” |
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Carlin
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 735
Location: An optimistic reality
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| It's true. When we study the human mind, religion makes sense. It is of course, is only true in the mind. |
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David Kelly
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Kissimmee, FL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| So, this is back on track? No more "This goes in the Alternate Theories Forum" arguments? |
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Ek0nomik
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: La Fleur
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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David Kelly wrote: So, this is back on track? No more "This goes in the Alternate Theories Forum" arguments?
The alternate theories forum was never up for debate. Your magical thinking however, is. However, I'm on your side. |
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mojo
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 5537
Location: Dreamland, NC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Whats wrong with magical thinking? |
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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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David Kelly wrote: So, this is back on track? No more "This goes in the Alternate Theories Forum" arguments?
I don't understand what you're asking. I made a Magical Thinking thread on the Conspiracy Nut Forum too, as requested. Cap'n was right, it applies to them too. |
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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, and you guys can stop referring to Magical Thinking as a theory. It's not. It's a symptom. It'd be like referring to a headache or stuffy nose as a theory. |
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levin893
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 177
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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A common form of magical thinking is that one's own thoughts can influence events, either beneficially, by creating good luck, or for the worse, as in divine punishment for "bad thoughts". Freud reflected on these phenomena in his essay, "The Uncanny". Some categorize the belief that prayer influences a deity to alter the course of events, as an example of this kind of thinking.
Another form of magical thinking occurs when people believe that words can directly affect the world. This can mean avoiding talking about certain subjects ("speak of the devil and he'll appear"), using euphemisms instead of certain words, or believing that to know the "true name" of something gives one power over it, or that certain chants, prayers or mystical phrases will change things. (Wikipedia)
Magical thinking is real, yet the ideas behind it are impraticable. Who's to say everything isn't a coincidence. But we try to relate the unrelated. It happens to the best of us. |
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Tepic
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 1573
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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levin893 wrote: A common form of magical thinking is that one's own thoughts can influence events
Well, thoughts do influence events. That's what the nerves travelling to your muscles, etc are for ;) |
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JDHURF
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 4044
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| levin893 wrote: Magical thinking is real, yet the ideas behind it are impraticable. Who's to say everything isn't a coincidence. But we try to relate the unrelated. It happens to the best of us. That is exactly right. The human mind has evolved to a point where it will, upon receiving sensory input, create a coherent vision of the sensory input; ultimately it will see patterns and connect the dots even when there is no pattern and there are no dots to connect. As I have already mentioned, Richard Gregory’s “impossible triangle” illustrates this point very well. |
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John
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 24242
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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JDHURF wrote: levin893 wrote: Magical thinking is real, yet the ideas behind it are impraticable. Who's to say everything isn't a coincidence. But we try to relate the unrelated. It happens to the best of us. That is exactly right. The human mind has evolved to a point where it will, upon receiving sensory input, create a coherent vision of the sensory input; ultimately it will see patterns and connect the dots even when there is no pattern and there are no dots to connect. As I have already mentioned, Richard Gregory’s “impossible triangle” illustrates this point very well.
So in reality you've just sputtered a slew of incomprehensible nonsense? |
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levin893
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 177
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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John wrote: JDHURF wrote: levin893 wrote: Magical thinking is real, yet the ideas behind it are impraticable. Who's to say everything isn't a coincidence. But we try to relate the unrelated. It happens to the best of us. That is exactly right. The human mind has evolved to a point where it will, upon receiving sensory input, create a coherent vision of the sensory input; ultimately it will see patterns and connect the dots even when there is no pattern and there are no dots to connect. As I have already mentioned, Richard Gregory’s “impossible triangle” illustrates this point very well.
So in reality you've just sputtered a slew of incomprehensible nonsense?
If you want to think of it like that, go ahead. |
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Dr. Wojtyla
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 2527
Location: Watican City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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John wrote: JDHURF wrote: levin893 wrote: Magical thinking is real, yet the ideas behind it are impraticable. Who's to say everything isn't a coincidence. But we try to relate the unrelated. It happens to the best of us. That is exactly right. The human mind has evolved to a point where it will, upon receiving sensory input, create a coherent vision of the sensory input; ultimately it will see patterns and connect the dots even when there is no pattern and there are no dots to connect. As I have already mentioned, Richard Gregory’s “impossible triangle” illustrates this point very well.
So in reality you've just sputtered a slew of incomprehensible nonsense?
A perfect illustration of the main point: " humans do not have a good filter for distinguishing between perceived patterns and actual patterns." |
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