Political Crossfire Forums

[micfranklin]

Think you've heard it all before?

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=280708

Quote: Alarmed by rising gun crime in Dallas, named the most dangerous city in the US by the FBI, and by shootings nationwide by police of offenders carrying toy weapons, councillors have advanced a plan to ban replica firearms.

Dumbasses!!!

Do you know how retarded it is for banning the use of replica firearms (that means toy guns, too) but not doing anything about real guns? This is just idiotic :roll:

[wyldejackyl]

If it looks like a gun, and is evil like all guns are..it must be evil and therefore must be banned.

Maybe they should ban idiot parents for not teaching their kids to not brandish firearms (real or fake) to law enforcement? I had all sorts of toy guns when I was a kid, and I'm not a criminal..nor did I ever get shot at by the cops.

That's like a local suburb around here. I went there last week to get ammunition for my shotgun and my pellet pistol. I bought the 00 Buckshot shells alright..it's buying those pesky .177 airgun pellets that I couldn't do! Turns out those darn airguns are so menacing, that not only can they not be sold..but you can't buy air for them (bottled air for chrissake - good for all sorts of things besides shooting 7.9grain soft lead airgun pellets with an effective range of a few hundred yards if that), nor can you buy paintball guns, ammunition for those, or any of the accessories. Oh, and you can't get a slingshot either. Those damn slingshots..always causing so much street crime. Did I mention I bought shotgun shells though?

So far those shells have resisted the temptation to jump out of the box, and into the equally criminal gun, and go hold up a liquor store. It's only a matter of time before that crazy gun makes its owner do something stupid. They need to have a death penalty for guns in this state; I don't believe those dangerous and ugly scary things are capable of being reformed.

[Wolverine]

micfranklin wrote: Think you've heard it all before?

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=280708

Quote: Alarmed by rising gun crime in Dallas, named the most dangerous city in the US by the FBI, and by shootings nationwide by police of offenders carrying toy weapons, councillors have advanced a plan to ban replica firearms.

Dumbasses!!!

Do you know how retarded it is for banning the use of replica firearms (that means toy guns, too) but not doing anything about real guns? This is just idiotic :roll:
The UK has already done that, I guess they worried about toy guns hopping off tables and shooting people. :roll:

[micfranklin]

Wolverine, I was waiting for your reaction to this article all day long :lol:

[Wolverine]

My dry sense of arrogant humor is so cool. :lol:

[thundertaker]

Wolverine wrote: micfranklin wrote: Think you've heard it all before?

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=280708

Quote: Alarmed by rising gun crime in Dallas, named the most dangerous city in the US by the FBI, and by shootings nationwide by police of offenders carrying toy weapons, councillors have advanced a plan to ban replica firearms.

Dumbasses!!!

Do you know how retarded it is for banning the use of replica firearms (that means toy guns, too) but not doing anything about real guns? This is just idiotic :roll:
The UK has already done that, I guess they worried about toy guns hopping off tables and shooting people. :roll:

Toy guns have not been banned. They just have to have this orange bit at the end to show they aren't real. I was at the Train Station in Preston only a couple of days ago watching some charming little boys pretending to kill each other with a toy 'wild west' rifle.........

[micfranklin]

But still, I still can't get over how you try to ban toy guns and not real guns, in spite of how toy guns can't kill anybody (in the hands of a person)

[Wolverine]

thundertaker wrote: Wolverine wrote: micfranklin wrote: Think you've heard it all before?

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=280708

Quote: Alarmed by rising gun crime in Dallas, named the most dangerous city in the US by the FBI, and by shootings nationwide by police of offenders carrying toy weapons, councillors have advanced a plan to ban replica firearms.

Dumbasses!!!

Do you know how retarded it is for banning the use of replica firearms (that means toy guns, too) but not doing anything about real guns? This is just idiotic :roll:
The UK has already done that, I guess they worried about toy guns hopping off tables and shooting people. :roll:

Toy guns have not been banned. They just have to have this orange bit at the end to show they aren't real. I was at the Train Station in Preston only a couple of days ago watching some charming little boys pretending to kill each other with a toy 'wild west' rifle.........
Then my best bud from over the Atlantic lied.

[thundertaker]

Wolverine wrote:
Then my best bud from over the Atlantic lied.

Either that, or he is mistaken. Replica guns are facing a ban, due to their use by criminals and idiots who have got themselves shot by the police for waving them around in public.
Plastic cap guns with a prominent orange tip are not banned, and they are still being sold at toy shops and newsagents, because a plastic gun with a prominent orange plug is clearly not a weapon.

Replica guns have no legitimate use, and can and are being converted to fire live rounds, which is the main reason they are being banned......

PS, just as a point of interest, is this friend of yours living in the states?

[wyldejackyl]

IIRC replica guns aren't built to withstand the forces of shooting live rounds, and also do not have rifled barrels or the proper sights. I could be mistaken..but to go thru all that trouble? It would be easier to just buy a cheap gun illegally on the street - laws are easier to circumvent than to learn to be a gunsmith to convert a replica firearm.

[airo]

wyldejackyl wrote: IIRC replica guns aren't built to withstand the forces of shooting live rounds, and also do not have rifled barrels or the proper sights. I could be mistaken..but to go thru all that trouble? It would be easier to just buy a cheap gun illegally on the street - laws are easier to circumvent than to learn to be a gunsmith to convert a replica firearm.

This is correct.

If someone is remanufacturing replica guns to fire live ammunition, they have access to a considerable amount of REAL parts. (Such as barrels, slides, etc.)

[wyldejackyl]

That's what I thought as well. I was also under the impression that a 9mm Beretta M92 (or insert other model here) "imitation starter pistol" or whatever you call it isn't built to fire standard 9mm rounds, or even 9mm blanks in a standard 9mm casing. I don't think many of them are designed to fire at all - again, who's going to go thru all that trouble? If you're that talented of a gunsmith, you'll get some billet and machine your own from scratch!

I can take a RedMan training gun and spraypaint it black and rob a bank with it..should we outlaw the rubber gun, the spraypaint..or the act of robbing the bank?

[airo]

wyldejackyl wrote: That's what I thought as well. I was also under the impression that a 9mm Beretta M92 (or insert other model here) "imitation starter pistol" or whatever you call it isn't built to fire standard 9mm rounds, or even 9mm blanks in a standard 9mm casing. I don't think many of them are designed to fire at all - again, who's going to go thru all that trouble? If you're that talented of a gunsmith, you'll get some billet and machine your own from scratch!

I can take a RedMan training gun and spraypaint it black and rob a bank with it..should we outlaw the rubber gun, the spraypaint..or the act of robbing the bank?

I've never actually seen one of these "re"milled guns, but the only thing that i would say could remain original replica on a pistol (say a 1911 style.) would be the frame and seer group. (This is assuming that the seer group is functional.) The slide, firing pin, extractor, and barrel would all have to traded out for REAL parts, in order to safely operate.

I'm not sure of exactly how these firearms operate, again, as i've never seen one, but that would generally be the idea.

[wyldejackyl]

Right, and if you're a criminal, who probably never even takes his gun apart to maintain it (because you only intend on using it a few times before getting rid of it)..are you honestly going to SOURCE PARTS for your replica gun so it's on the down-low?

I'd imagine it's far cheaper to build a one-shot gun or a bangstick that uses a shotshell if you want to be down and dirty. You can build one of those with parts from a hardware store. Should we ban hardware stores too?

With all that trouble, I'd just use a knife. It's quieter anyway.

[airo]

wyldejackyl wrote: Right, and if you're a criminal, who probably never even takes his gun apart to maintain it (because you only intend on using it a few times before getting rid of it)..are you honestly going to SOURCE PARTS for your replica gun so it's on the down-low?

I'd imagine it's far cheaper to build a one-shot gun or a bangstick that uses a shotshell if you want to be down and dirty. You can build one of those with parts from a hardware store. Should we ban hardware stores too?

With all that trouble, I'd just use a knife. It's quieter anyway.

If you want to get technical, it's much cheaper to find a sharp bit of metal or wood. Works just as well, and is completely untraceable and disposable.

But, toy guns are the REAL problem here, no resourceful criminals!

[wyldejackyl]

You can get some pretty cheap knives nowadays. I wouldn't buy them, but they can be had to kill people with and get rid of. I guess though, when I buy knives I don't intend to use them to kill people with. Sorta how a lot of people look at guns.

Criminals like guns because people fear them. People fear guns because they are brainwashed from a young age about how dangerous and horrible guns are. Truth is, they are no more dangerous than electricity or fire - two of the most dangerous things used in the home EVERY DAY.

[Wolverine]

thundertaker wrote:
Either that, or he is mistaken. Replica guns are facing a ban, due to their use by criminals and idiots who have got themselves shot by the police for waving them around in public.
Plastic cap guns with a prominent orange tip are not banned, and they are still being sold at toy shops and newsagents, because a plastic gun with a prominent orange plug is clearly not a weapon.
He referred to them as "toy guns", I suppose he was mistaken, as always.

Quote: Replica guns have no legitimate use, and can and are being converted to fire live rounds, which is the main reason they are being banned......
They lack the strength to fire a real round of ammunition. Those that are converted from real firearm are demilled, even here in the states.

Quote: PS, just as a point of interest, is this friend of yours living in the states?
When I say "my best bud from over the Atlantic" I mean Lucky Luke. :wink:

[thundertaker]

wyldejackyl wrote: IIRC replica guns aren't built to withstand the forces of shooting live rounds, and also do not have rifled barrels or the proper sights. I could be mistaken..but to go thru all that trouble? It would be easier to just buy a cheap gun illegally on the street - laws are easier to circumvent than to learn to be a gunsmith to convert a replica firearm.

Well, converted replicas are obviously not as good as the real thing, but the fact the criminal fraternity has to resort to such measures shows that gun control in this country actually does make it difficult for criminals to get proper guns.

What you say about getting cheap guns illegally in the street may be true in america, but in Britain, guns whether legal or not, or quite difficult to obtain.
As I say all the time, our gun laws work in our country, but they wouldn't make sense in yours....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3887725.stm

[wyldejackyl]

Converted replicas, for their cost and reliability, are not even FEASIBLE, let alone "not as good as the real thing." Try making a gun out of cheap pot metal and fire it. Far away from everyone else. When the thing explodes you'll see what I mean.

If something's illegal and hard to obtain, you just aren't looking in the right places..or believing the BBC. Or both. There's always a give and take. Outlaw guns..the increase in illegal firearm deaths increases. Stabbings increase. Violent encounters with impact weapons increase. Fatalities may decrease, but that doesn't mean crime is. Maybe the criminal shoots the victim, maybe not..the point is, they are being manipulated. Personally, I'd rather have the right to defend myself. Whether I exercise that right by carrying a firearm should be up to me..not some government.
Where I live, handguns are illegal, yet all the criminals have them. If I ever have to defend myself against crime, it's very likely it will involve a gun - and not mine either (it's at home).

[britboy]

wyldejackyl wrote: Converted replicas, for their cost and reliability, are not even FEASIBLE, let alone "not as good as the real thing." Try making a gun out of cheap pot metal and fire it. Far away from everyone else. When the thing explodes you'll see what I mean.

If something's illegal and hard to obtain, you just aren't looking in the right places..or believing the BBC. Or both. There's always a give and take. Outlaw guns..the increase in illegal firearm deaths increases. Stabbings increase. Violent encounters with impact weapons increase. Fatalities may decrease, but that doesn't mean crime is. Maybe the criminal shoots the victim, maybe not..the point is, they are being manipulated. Personally, I'd rather have the right to defend myself. Whether I exercise that right by carrying a firearm should be up to me..not some government.
Where I live, handguns are illegal, yet all the criminals have them. If I ever have to defend myself against crime, it's very likely it will involve a gun - and not mine either (it's at home).

Wow! You should move. Where I live (inner city), virtually none of the criminals have guns. I know a load of drug dealers (don't ask) and none of them carry. No-one carries a gun because even just being found in possession means straight away 5 years in prison. It's not worth the risk, even to criminals.