Political Crossfire Forums

[perdidochas]

Ek0nomik wrote: Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: The Confederate Flag to me represents a country that was unjustly invaded and destroyed.

So, you're in support of slavery?

Slavery was already on the way out in the South. The number of slaves in 1860 was much lower than the number of slaves in 1840. The economics of slavery was doing a pretty good job of killing it off.

Slavery was only a propaganda issue. It wasn't the true reason that the South revolted, but was the reason the North gave for invading.

[perdidochas]

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: Ek0nomik wrote: Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: The Confederate Flag to me represents a country that was unjustly invaded and destroyed.

So, you're in support of slavery?

So you believe Lincoln killed 600,000 people because he wanted to end slavery? Lincoln was never against slavery. Lincoln was also the biggest tyrrant in US histroy and I feel his assasination was justified.

History is always written by the victors.

I have mixed feelings about Lincoln's death. I think the South would have been better off had Lincoln never been assassinated. He would have reigned in the radical reconstructionists.

[perdidochas]

EugenicHegemony wrote: Anyone who thinks the confederate flag is a symbol of racism is either an idiot, or completely ignorant of history.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism because it has been used as one for so long (at the least the last 40 yrs)

[micfranklin]

perdidochas wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Anyone who thinks the confederate flag is a symbol of racism is either an idiot, or completely ignorant of history.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism because it has been used as one for so long (at the least the last 40 yrs)

That's basically saying it symbolizes racism because that's just how its been for a while, which really doesn't convince me of anything :?

[Quicksurf]

micfranklin wrote: perdidochas wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: Anyone who thinks the confederate flag is a symbol of racism is either an idiot, or completely ignorant of history.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism because it has been used as one for so long (at the least the last 40 yrs)

That's basically saying it symbolizes racism because that's just how its been for a while, which really doesn't convince me of anything :?

It wasn't always a backwards symbol, but neither was this:



http://www.heathenworld.com/swastika/ganesh.html

Ever since the Nazis used it, it is taboo for Hindus to use the symbol. Unfortunatley, they didn't really have a choice.

All that aside, this is a non-issue. People should be able to represent their social and political views without criticism.

[levin893]

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: levin893 wrote: I can't respect anyone who chooses to value the Confederate flag.

Why?

It represents a time period of conflicting standpoints and instability. It's less about racism and prejudice and more about a time where are country was divided. Why would you want to value that when in today's age we strive for national unity?

[Cyro]

levin893 wrote: Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: levin893 wrote: I can't respect anyone who chooses to value the Confederate flag.

Why?

It represents a time period of conflicting standpoints and instability. It's less about racism and prejudice and more about a time where are country was divided. Why would you want to value that when in today's age we strive for national unity?

I don't strive for national unity. I happen think nationalism is a plain bad idea. It glorifies the idea that one group of people are better than another group of people based on the landmass they happen to exist on and it's total idiocy. Are you suggesting that the states of America shouldn't be able to succeed if they so choose?

[Anarko-Kapitalizt]

levin893 wrote: Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: levin893 wrote: I can't respect anyone who chooses to value the Confederate flag.

Why?

It represents a time period of conflicting standpoints and instability. It's less about racism and prejudice and more about a time where are country was divided. Why would you want to value that when in today's age we strive for national unity?

So killing 600,000 people is a good way of uniting a nation?

[Headrattle]

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote: So killing 600,000 people is a good way of uniting a nation?

Is killing 360,000 people a good way to start a new nation? Keep in mind that the South started the Civil War by attacking and taking control of federal forts. The blood lies on the South's hands. The North tried to resolve the conflict with a peace confrence in Washington in Febuary of '61. The boiling point was because they didn't like where the country was headed and they didn't like the President that was elected. It would be like the blue states suceeding because Bush was elected.


perdidochas:
Slavery was only on the decline in some states. Mainly the most northern states in the south. In the main Southern States, (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas) Slavery was very much on the raise. But those were also the states with the most plantations. There was a strong corrolation between the number of plantations and the degree of support for the confederacy.

[micfranklin]

It's just a flag.

[XiangYu]

micfranklin wrote: It's just a flag.

So is this:



and this:



and this:

[00timh]

micfranklin wrote: ideal wrote: As a child, I considered the Stars and Bars as a symbol of racism. After seeing the cross-section of people who present it, I consider it to be a symbol of nonexceptance of government control over people or regions(hence, 'rebel' flag). This really seems to be the most common usage these days and I would use it were I participating in a protest of unjust laws.

There are a list of things I considers to be racist:

-Ku Klux Klan
-Nazism/Neo-nazism
-Burning of the cross
-trashing a synagouge
-someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community

The confederate flag doesn't seem to carry any symbols on it I consider offensive, and yet again, I reiterate by saying people get too easily offended over stuff like this.
Quote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community I would consider that to be stupid as well :lol:

[agentkgb]

micfranklin wrote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community
Someone shouting that anywhere would be racist, but yeah.
Flying a piece of cloth isn't something I owuld consider racist in itself, but I would say that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a number of things, among them racism.

[EugenicHegemony]

agentkgb wrote: micfranklin wrote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community
Someone shouting that anywhere would be racist, but yeah.
Flying a piece of cloth isn't something I owuld consider racist in itself, but I would say that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a number of things, among them racism. No, the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism. It's a symbol of independence from nationalist federalist ass holes.

[agentkgb]

EugenicHegemony wrote: agentkgb wrote: micfranklin wrote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community
Someone shouting that anywhere would be racist, but yeah.
Flying a piece of cloth isn't something I owuld consider racist in itself, but I would say that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a number of things, among them racism. No, the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism. It's a symbol of independence from nationalist federalist ass holes.
I didn't say just slavery, I said including slavery. The Confederacy wanted a number of things, including the right to enslave blacks, and that's racist.

[EugenicHegemony]

agentkgb wrote: EugenicHegemony wrote: agentkgb wrote: micfranklin wrote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community
Someone shouting that anywhere would be racist, but yeah.
Flying a piece of cloth isn't something I owuld consider racist in itself, but I would say that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a number of things, among them racism. No, the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism. It's a symbol of independence from nationalist federalist ass holes.
I didn't say just slavery, I said including slavery. The Confederacy wanted a number of things, including the right to enslave blacks, and that's racist. Your nationalist federalists had slaves as well, so it was just a sign of the times. The civil war did nothing for slavery, and it wasn't until the Civil Rights movement that segregation had finally came to an end. The Confederate flag was not about slavery and neither was that imperialistic civil war your nationalist federalist scumbags waged.

[micfranklin]

agentkgb wrote: micfranklin wrote: -someone shouting "I hate black people" in an all-black community
Someone shouting that anywhere would be racist, but yeah.
Flying a piece of cloth isn't something I owuld consider racist in itself, but I would say that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a number of things, among them racism.

True, but that's not what the original flag stood for, so much as pride in the south. Hell, the flag we're all talking about isn't even one of the original confederate flags.

[agentkgb]

EugenicHegemony wrote: agentkgb wrote: I didn't say just slavery, I said including slavery. The Confederacy wanted a number of things, including the right to enslave blacks, and that's racist.
Your nationalist federalists had slaves as well, so it was just a sign of the times. The civil war did nothing for slavery, and it wasn't until the Civil Rights movement that segregation had finally came to an end. The Confederate flag was not about slavery
Again, I'm not saying it was exclusively about slavery or even mostly about slavery, just that that was part of it. The South was far more dependent on slavery than was the North.
EugenicHegemony wrote: and neither was that imperialistic civil war your nationalist federalist scumbags waged.
Since I am not 141 years old, I am probably not one of the "nationalist federalist scumbags" who waged that war.

[micfranklin]

To those who think that flying a Confederate flag would mean you're a racist pig who doesn't like blacks, maybe you should look at this:





Still think its a racist symbol against blacks?

[milo1047]

The Confederate flag represents a dead cause and should have been buried with it.