Political Crossfire Forums

[FreedomSpeech]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: That didnt really address my question at all :?
Can you just explain to me how God would say "were made from a mere blood clot" and then go on and say he made us from nothing?
Usually questions that require deep understanding of Qur'an need credible scholars to answer these questions clearly and thats why Muslima referred you to IslamOnline.net where there is many scholars answering such questions.
I'm not a scholar, but I think when Allah says the humans are created of blood it doesn't contradict saying he created humans from nothing, because the blood is created from nothing, or to be more accurate, what compose the blood is created from nothing.. When Allah reminds people that they are created from nothing (in the sense I explained), he wants us to remember that we are nothing compared to him , meaning, he is capable of punishing and rewarding us in any way he wants - he is above us. When Allah says he created us from blood, he wants us to remember that we're all are the same, no one is above another.

If you think of it deeply, you will find that its all about interpretations, Qur'an has no any single contradicton, its the incorrect interpretations that are subject to contradictions. And believe me when I say that many organizations publish incorrect interpretaions on purpose as some kind of anti-Islam propoganda.

[Muslima]

FreedomSpeech wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: That didnt really address my question at all :?
Can you just explain to me how God would say "were made from a mere blood clot" and then go on and say he made us from nothing?
Usually questions that require deep understanding of Qur'an need credible scholars to answer these questions clearly and thats why Muslima referred you to IslamOnline.net where there is many scholars answering such questions.
I'm not a scholar, but I think when Allah says the humans are created of blood it doesn't contradict saying he created humans from nothing, because the blood is created from nothing, or to be more accurate, what compose the blood is created from nothing.. When Allah reminds people that they are created from nothing (in the sense I explained), he wants us to remember that we are nothing compared to him , meaning, he is capable of punishing and rewarding us in any way he wants - he is above us. When Allah says he created us from blood, he wants us to remember that we're all are the same, no one is above another.

If you think of it deeply, you will find that its all about interpretations, Qur'an has no any single contradicton, its the incorrect interpretations that are subject to contradictions. And believe me when I say that many organizations publish incorrect interpretaions on purpose as some kind of anti-Islam propoganda.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

and that is why i keep saying that to understand the quran you need to be an advanced arabic speaker.

nothing means that we were nothing, dust means that the human meat was made from dust and water which makes it clay, and from nothing came blood which god mixed with the clay and created a human being.

[FreedomSpeech]

Muslima wrote: FreedomSpeech wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: That didnt really address my question at all :?
Can you just explain to me how God would say "were made from a mere blood clot" and then go on and say he made us from nothing?
Usually questions that require deep understanding of Qur'an need credible scholars to answer these questions clearly and thats why Muslima referred you to IslamOnline.net where there is many scholars answering such questions.
I'm not a scholar, but I think when Allah says the humans are created of blood it doesn't contradict saying he created humans from nothing, because the blood is created from nothing, or to be more accurate, what compose the blood is created from nothing.. When Allah reminds people that they are created from nothing (in the sense I explained), he wants us to remember that we are nothing compared to him , meaning, he is capable of punishing and rewarding us in any way he wants - he is above us. When Allah says he created us from blood, he wants us to remember that we're all are the same, no one is above another.

If you think of it deeply, you will find that its all about interpretations, Qur'an has no any single contradicton, its the incorrect interpretations that are subject to contradictions. And believe me when I say that many organizations publish incorrect interpretaions on purpose as some kind of anti-Islam propoganda.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

and that is why i keep saying that to understand the quran you need to be an advanced arabic speaker.

nothing means that we were nothing, dust means that the human meat was made from dust and water which makes it clay, and from nothing came blood which god mixed with the clay and created a human being.
Exactly, there are many poor translations of Qur'an everywhere on the internet. BTW, even for Arabs its sometimes hard to understand verses of Qur'an without reading their interpretation, that's why there is a whole science of Qur'an's interpretation (Tafsir) .

[dtwizzy2k5]

Alrite, heres another contradiction in the quran, and i dont see how this one could possibly be mistranslated or whatever.

The Qur'an makes the following statements regarding the food that unbelievers will have in hell:

No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari S. 88:6 Y. Ali

Nor hath he any food except the foul pus from the washing of wounds, S. 69:36 Y. Ali

In a footnote, Yusuf Ali gives the following explanation for Dhari:

It is a plant, bitter and thorny, loathsome in smell and appearance, which will neither give fattening nourishment to the body nor in any way satisfy the burning pangs of hunger. ...

Other translators render the term as "bitter thorn-fruit" (Pickthall) "dry, bitter and thorny herbage" (Sher Ali), "cactus thorn" (Arberry), "the foul thorn" (Palmer).

Obviously, both kinds of ‘food’ are chosen to evoke a feeling of horror when thinking about Hell. However, the contradiction is in the double claim that this or that will be the only food, i.e.

No food except Dhari (88:6).
No food except foul pus (69:36).

So how do you explain that one? I think thats a pretty clear contradiction...

[TheTME]

http://answering-islam.org ..... at least get your own arguements instead of borrowing others.

[MJB]

TheTME wrote: http://answering-islam.org ..... at least get your own arguements instead of borrowing others.

That takes too much work.

When the desire is to criticize another faith, it's much easier to go the anti sites for fodder, than to study and learn what that faith actually teaches and believes.

[dtwizzy2k5]

TheTME wrote: http://answering-islam.org ..... at least get your own arguements instead of borrowing others.

Why should i? Do you have a problem with my using of the internet for sources? And by the way, i have read the quran in its entirety as well as numerous quotes and sayings from Muhammad and his scholars/followers. So its not as if im uneducated on the topic...

[Richard Owl Mirror]

MJB wrote: TheTME wrote: http://answering-islam.org ..... at least get your own arguements instead of borrowing others.

That takes too much work.

When the desire is to criticize another faith, it's much easier to go the anti sites for fodder, than to study and learn what that faith actually teaches and believes.

:think:

Interesting Quotes from the Hadith About Jihad

Following are various quotes from the Hadith dealing with killing people.

1. The second best deed is to participate in Jihad
A. Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca) 'Mubrur, (which is accepted by Allah and is performed with the intention of seeking Allah's pleasure only and not to show off and without committing a sin and in accordance with the traditions of the Prophet)." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25, Narrated Abu Huraira:
2. Muhammad said if someone leaves Islam, to kill him
A. Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'" Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260, Narrated Ikrima. Also, see Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64, Narrated 'Ali.
3. Muhammad approves of killing someone who hurt him and having the killer lie
A. "Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. .." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.
4. Paradise was guaranteed to the first to take part in a naval battle
A. That 'Umair bin Al-Aswad Al-Anasi told him that he went to 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was staying in his house at the sea-shore of Him with (his wife) Um Haram. 'Umair said. Um Haram informed us that she heard the Prophet saying, "Paradise is granted to the first batch of my followers who will undertake a naval expedition." Um Haram added, I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Will I be amongst them?' He replied, 'You are amongst them.' The Prophet then said, 'The first army amongst' my followers who will invade Caesar's City will be forgiven their sins.' I asked, 'Will I be one of them, O Allah's Apostle?' He replied in the negative." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 175 Narrated Khalid bin Madan:
5. Those who fight in Jihad have the right to the spoils of the conquered or Paradise if he dies
A. The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35, Narrated Abu Huraira.
B. ". . . "This is the Will of Allah, "After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." I got up and said, "Who will be a witness for me?" and then sat down. The Prophet again said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has proof of that, will possess his spoils." I (again) got up and said, "Who will be a witness for me?" and sat down. Then the Prophet said the same for the third time. I again got up, and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Qatada! What is your story?" Then I narrated the whole story to him. A man (got up and) said, "O Allah's Apostle! He is speaking the truth, and the spoils of the killed man are with me. So please compensate him on my behalf." On that Abu Bakr As-Siddiq said, "No, by Allah, he (i.e. Allah's Apostle ) will not agree to give you the spoils gained by one of Allah's Lions who fights on the behalf of Allah and His Apostle." The Prophet said, "Abu Bakr has spoken the truth." So, Allah's Apostle gave the spoils to me. I sold that armor (i.e. the spoils) and with its price I bought a garden at Bani Salima, and this was my first property which I gained after my conversion to Islam." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370, Narrated Abu Qatada.
C. ". . . . While we were in this state, the Lord of the Heavens and the Earths, Elevated is His Remembrance and Majestic is His Highness, sent to us from among ourselves a Prophet whose father and mother are known to us. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." (Al-Mughira, then blamed An-Numan for delaying the attack and) An-Nu' man said to Al-Mughira, "If you had participated in a similar battle, in the company of Allah's Apostle he would not have blamed you for waiting, nor would he have disgraced you. But I accompanied Allah's Apostle in many battles and it was his custom that if he did not fight early by daytime, he would wait till the wind had started blowing and the time for the prayer was due (i.e. after midday)." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386, Narrated Jubair bin Haiya.
D. Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out." Volume 9, Book 93, Number 555, Narrated Abu Huraira:
The preceding Hadith are translated by Sahih Bukhari and are quoted from an online source found at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/.

[MJB]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: MJB wrote: TheTME wrote: http://answering-islam.org ..... at least get your own arguements instead of borrowing others.

That takes too much work.

When the desire is to criticize another faith, it's much easier to go the anti sites for fodder, than to study and learn what that faith actually teaches and believes.

:think:

Interesting Quotes from the Hadith About Jihad

Following are various quotes from the Hadith dealing with killing people.

1. The second best deed is to participate in Jihad
A. Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca) 'Mubrur, (which is accepted by Allah and is performed with the intention of seeking Allah's pleasure only and not to show off and without committing a sin and in accordance with the traditions of the Prophet)." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25, Narrated Abu Huraira:
2. Muhammad said if someone leaves Islam, to kill him
A. Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'" Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260, Narrated Ikrima. Also, see Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64, Narrated 'Ali.
3. Muhammad approves of killing someone who hurt him and having the killer lie
A. "Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. .." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.
4. Paradise was guaranteed to the first to take part in a naval battle
A. That 'Umair bin Al-Aswad Al-Anasi told him that he went to 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was staying in his house at the sea-shore of Him with (his wife) Um Haram. 'Umair said. Um Haram informed us that she heard the Prophet saying, "Paradise is granted to the first batch of my followers who will undertake a naval expedition." Um Haram added, I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Will I be amongst them?' He replied, 'You are amongst them.' The Prophet then said, 'The first army amongst' my followers who will invade Caesar's City will be forgiven their sins.' I asked, 'Will I be one of them, O Allah's Apostle?' He replied in the negative." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 175 Narrated Khalid bin Madan:
5. Those who fight in Jihad have the right to the spoils of the conquered or Paradise if he dies
A. The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35, Narrated Abu Huraira.
B. ". . . "This is the Will of Allah, "After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." I got up and said, "Who will be a witness for me?" and then sat down. The Prophet again said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has proof of that, will possess his spoils." I (again) got up and said, "Who will be a witness for me?" and sat down. Then the Prophet said the same for the third time. I again got up, and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Qatada! What is your story?" Then I narrated the whole story to him. A man (got up and) said, "O Allah's Apostle! He is speaking the truth, and the spoils of the killed man are with me. So please compensate him on my behalf." On that Abu Bakr As-Siddiq said, "No, by Allah, he (i.e. Allah's Apostle ) will not agree to give you the spoils gained by one of Allah's Lions who fights on the behalf of Allah and His Apostle." The Prophet said, "Abu Bakr has spoken the truth." So, Allah's Apostle gave the spoils to me. I sold that armor (i.e. the spoils) and with its price I bought a garden at Bani Salima, and this was my first property which I gained after my conversion to Islam." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370, Narrated Abu Qatada.
C. ". . . . While we were in this state, the Lord of the Heavens and the Earths, Elevated is His Remembrance and Majestic is His Highness, sent to us from among ourselves a Prophet whose father and mother are known to us. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." (Al-Mughira, then blamed An-Numan for delaying the attack and) An-Nu' man said to Al-Mughira, "If you had participated in a similar battle, in the company of Allah's Apostle he would not have blamed you for waiting, nor would he have disgraced you. But I accompanied Allah's Apostle in many battles and it was his custom that if he did not fight early by daytime, he would wait till the wind had started blowing and the time for the prayer was due (i.e. after midday)." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386, Narrated Jubair bin Haiya.
D. Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out." Volume 9, Book 93, Number 555, Narrated Abu Huraira:
The preceding Hadith are translated by Sahih Bukhari and are quoted from an online source found at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/.

"When the desire is to criticize another faith, it's much easier to go the anti sites for fodder, than to study and learn what that faith actually teaches and believes."

http://www.carm.org/islam/hadith_jihad.htm

Thanks for making my point.

[FreedomSpeech]

[quote="MJB]"When the desire is to criticize another faith, it's much easier to go the anti sites for fodder, than to study and learn what that faith actually teaches and believes."

http://www.carm.org/islam/hadith_jihad.htm

Thanks for making my point.[/quote]
:ouch: You have to amit it Richard, he made an excellent point.

[futurdoc]

about the the issue that the <<HEAVENS AND EARTH CREATED IN SIX DAYS AND NOT EIGHT DAYS>>

1. Heavens and the Earth created in Six days

I do agree that the Qur’an says that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days i.e. 6 epochs and it is mentioned in

Surah Al A’raf chapter 7 verse 54
Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 3
Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 7
Surah Al Furqan chapter 25 verse 59
Surah Al Sajdah chapter 32 verse 4
Surah Qaf chapter 50 verse 38
Surah Al Hadid chapter 57 verse 4

The verses of the Qur’an which according to you say that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days are Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verses 9 to 12

"Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals With him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds;

He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, High above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, In four days, in accordance with (the needs of) Those who seek (sustenance)."

Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth. "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: "We do come (Together), in willing obedience."

So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command and We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the decree of (Him) the exalted in might, full of knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 41:9-12]

On the face of it, it seems that these verses of the Qur’an give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days.

Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity. Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction

2. Summa means moreover

If you analyse these verses carefully, it speaks about 2 different creations: the earth and the heaven. The earth excluding the mountains was created in 2 days and the mountains were set on the earth standing firm and blessed and measured its sustenance in 4 days. Therefore the earth along with the mountains was created in 6 days according to verse 9 and 10. Verse 11 and 12 says, moreover the heavens were created in 2 days. The Arabic word used in the beginning of verse 11 of Surah Fussilat is summa which means; ‘then’ or ‘moreover’. There are certain Qur’anic translations, which have, used ‘then’ for the word summa which, indicates ‘afterwards’. If ‘then’ is wrongly used for summa then the total of the creation of heaven and earth will be 8 days which will conflict with other verses of the Qur’an which says heavens and earth were created in 6 days and will also conflict with the Big Bang Theory as well as the verse of the Qur’an Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which says that heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.

Therefore the correct translation of the word summa in this verse would be ‘moreover’. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has rightly translated the word summa or moreover which clearly gives an indication that while the earth along with the mountains, etc. was created in 6 days simultaneously the heavens were created in 2 days. Therefore the total does not come to 8 days but 6 days.

If a builder says that he will construct a 10 storey building and surrounding compound wall in 6 months and after completion of his project he gives a more detailed account saying that the basement of the building was built in 2 months and the 10 storeys took 4 months and simultaneously, while the basement and the building was being constructed, he also constructed the surrounding of the building along with the compound wall which took 2 months. Therefore both his first and second descriptions are not contradicting but the second statement gives a more detailed account for the construction.

3. Heavens and the Earth created simultaneously

The Qur’an describe the creation of the universe in several places, sometimes it says the heavens and the earth (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 32:4, 50:38, 57:4) while in other places it says earth and the heaven (49:9-12, 2:29, 20:4) thus further supplementing the verse of Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which speaks about the Big-Bang and that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.

Similarly in Surah Al-Baqara chapter 2 verse 29

"It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 2:29]

"It is who has created for you all things on the earth summa simultaneously made the heaven into seven firmaments".

Here also if you wrongly translate summa as ‘then’ only then would this verse contradict the Big-bang theory and other verses of the Qur’an. Therefore the correct translation of the word summa is ‘moreover’ or ‘simultaneously’.

[Muslima]

wonderful post futurdoc.

[Muslima]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Alrite, heres another contradiction in the quran, and i dont see how this one could possibly be mistranslated or whatever.

The Qur'an makes the following statements regarding the food that unbelievers will have in hell:

No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari S. 88:6 Y. Ali

Nor hath he any food except the foul pus from the washing of wounds, S. 69:36 Y. Ali

In a footnote, Yusuf Ali gives the following explanation for Dhari:

It is a plant, bitter and thorny, loathsome in smell and appearance, which will neither give fattening nourishment to the body nor in any way satisfy the burning pangs of hunger. ...

Other translators render the term as "bitter thorn-fruit" (Pickthall) "dry, bitter and thorny herbage" (Sher Ali), "cactus thorn" (Arberry), "the foul thorn" (Palmer).

Obviously, both kinds of ‘food’ are chosen to evoke a feeling of horror when thinking about Hell. However, the contradiction is in the double claim that this or that will be the only food, i.e.

No food except Dhari (88:6).
No food except foul pus (69:36).

So how do you explain that one? I think thats a pretty clear contradiction...


i have a question for you to think..........is foul pus solid or liquid?

[David Kelly]

Muslima wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Alrite, heres another contradiction in the quran, and i dont see how this one could possibly be mistranslated or whatever.

The Qur'an makes the following statements regarding the food that unbelievers will have in hell:

No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari S. 88:6 Y. Ali

Nor hath he any food except the foul pus from the washing of wounds, S. 69:36 Y. Ali

In a footnote, Yusuf Ali gives the following explanation for Dhari:

It is a plant, bitter and thorny, loathsome in smell and appearance, which will neither give fattening nourishment to the body nor in any way satisfy the burning pangs of hunger. ...

Other translators render the term as "bitter thorn-fruit" (Pickthall) "dry, bitter and thorny herbage" (Sher Ali), "cactus thorn" (Arberry), "the foul thorn" (Palmer).

Obviously, both kinds of ‘food’ are chosen to evoke a feeling of horror when thinking about Hell. However, the contradiction is in the double claim that this or that will be the only food, i.e.

No food except Dhari (88:6).
No food except foul pus (69:36).

So how do you explain that one? I think thats a pretty clear contradiction...


i have a question for you to think..........is foul pus solid or liquid?

Hum, I say solid at 1st, but then milts in your moth so it's a liquid by the time you swallow it. :?

[dtwizzy2k5]

Muslima wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Alrite, heres another contradiction in the quran, and i dont see how this one could possibly be mistranslated or whatever.

The Qur'an makes the following statements regarding the food that unbelievers will have in hell:

No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari S. 88:6 Y. Ali

Nor hath he any food except the foul pus from the washing of wounds, S. 69:36 Y. Ali

In a footnote, Yusuf Ali gives the following explanation for Dhari:

It is a plant, bitter and thorny, loathsome in smell and appearance, which will neither give fattening nourishment to the body nor in any way satisfy the burning pangs of hunger. ...

Other translators render the term as "bitter thorn-fruit" (Pickthall) "dry, bitter and thorny herbage" (Sher Ali), "cactus thorn" (Arberry), "the foul thorn" (Palmer).

Obviously, both kinds of ‘food’ are chosen to evoke a feeling of horror when thinking about Hell. However, the contradiction is in the double claim that this or that will be the only food, i.e.

No food except Dhari (88:6).
No food except foul pus (69:36).

So how do you explain that one? I think thats a pretty clear contradiction...


i have a question for you to think..........is foul pus solid or liquid?

Umm...does it matter? Why dont you just answer my question first?

[Muslima]

because it the way i am using to answer your question.

and yes it matters.

foul pus is liquid but you can't consider it a drink, just like ketchup it is a liquid but it is not a drink, so both are types of food.

so dhari is what they will eat along with foul pus.

need more explanation?

[Muslima]

there is more explanation soon.....

[futurdoc]

In the name of Allah most gracious most merciful

Alsalamo alekom wa rahmato Allah wa barakatuh
(Peace, blessings and mercy be upon the Muslims)
And HI! To all the non Muslims joining us in this forum:

First I want to apologize for being late in answering back this question about the contradiction is the kind of food given in hellfire but actually I am extremely busy but when I have time I shall get into talking with you guys and it will be my pleasure actually.


HERE we go again in a so called contradiction (which cannot be explained LOL) in God’s final revelation to mankind (THE GLORIOUS QURAN)

And before I would have the honor to explain this so called contradictory claim I would like to highlight some points a person needs in order to talk about any scripture in order to prove that his claim or accusation towards this scripture is right.

1-you don’t read some verses from a scripture and set out various claims without having proper knowledge of the WHOLE scripture u r talking about (as hate websites are double edged weapon it can make you the MASTER that can show that one’s faith is corrupted in front of non-knowledgeable followers of this faith and ALSO when we Muslims answer these so called corrupted illogical gaps and contradictions in our Quran in a clear & logical explanation will just point thumbs towards the non-Muslim who points out such claims accusing him of talking without knowledge and out of context )

2- when we talk about a specific verse in the QURAN, we read and understand the verses ABOVE & BELOW this verse in order to get the whole meaning and the whole picture of what we are talking about (( for example: when a guy comes in a middle of a story told and he hears “ MIKE IS A TERRORIST !!” while the actual sentence was that “ HOW CAN SOME PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY SAY THE MIKE IS A TERRORIST I DON’T BELIEVE. THAT THEY HAVE GOT NO PROOF ” see a whole different story and a full picture is given before and after the sentence that says mike is a terrorist so got what I mean :) ))

3-The Arabic language is way richer than the English language so in order to understand the meanings of the QURAN you not only need to be an Arabic slang speaker but a good Arabic speaker also. (( for example : a non English speaker goes to a doctor and his name was Dr. Carpenter so this non-english speaker goes to the English dictionary to find the meaning of the word CARPENTER and then he says that this guy is not a doctor and doesn’t even know anything about medicine because he had read in the dictionary that he is a one who builds with Wood … simply because this poor guy does know that a carpenter is a one who works with wood but doesn’t know that it could be given as a family name ALSO .

And actually these are not the only points you need to understand when you talk about the QURAN but they are in fact very important.
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Now, lets get into action and try to explain this contradictory claims in in a simple way so everyone can understand in both verses
69:36
88:6
Let us begin with chapter 69 (Al-Haqqah) or (The inevitable)
Starting way up from verse 13--->18 Allah describes some of the things that will happen at the day of judgment and then reaching verse 19 Allah explains to us the conditions of the people at this day where they will be classifies into 2 major groups and into these 2 major groups they are further more classified as we shall see afterwards “

Group1 : (69:19) { then as for him who will be given his record in his right hand will say “ here ! read my record } so these will be the fortunate ones , who spent their lives in goodness and truth for them the account will be made easy , for even after the balancing they will receive more than their merits deserve , on account of the infinite grace and mercy of God , and this group are the people who will enter paradise directly as their final eternal fate and they will then further be grouped and classified in paradise in different classes and levels according to one’s good deeds as in our Islamic concept of heaven and hell they are divided into levels and classes as good deeds and sins are variable from one person to another and so as the rewards will be also variable

And amongst this group of people (their records in their right hand) are the MUSLIMS (the submitters), the true Christian submitters (who believe that Jesus (PBUH) is a messenger and a prophet from God and not son of God or even God) and the true Jewish submitters, And All the believers who believe in the true massage of God and believe in Allah’s messengers and prophets starting from Adam and ending by Muhammad (PBUT).

Group2: the group who will get his record in their left hand:
And this group is further classified into 2 subtypes …
Subgroup A: has been stated in this chapter 69:25 {But as for him who will be given his Record in his left hand, will say: “I wish that I had not been given my record “ }
Subgroup B: has been stated in 84:10 {But whosoever is given his record behind his back} as they are the wicked so they can only receive their records in their left hand behind their back

And to prevent confusion here we say that both the subgroups will be given their records in their left hands to make it more simpler

And amongst this group of people (their records in their left hand ) are the Pagans , Idol worshipping ( the polytheists) , the heathens , the atheists , the Christians ( that believe in the divinity of Jesus (PBUH ) as being a son of god or god ) and the nowadays Jews who doesn’t believe in Jesus as a messenger or Mohammad (PBUT) , and the MUSLIMS themselves (whom their sins are way higher than their good deeds as it prevented them from entering paradise and they will enter hell for a specific time Allah only knows and will then enter paradise ) ….etc so as we can see that there is a wide broad spectrum of people who will be in the groups whom will enter hellfire now after this brief explanation we are now ready to explain the verse in 69

So starting from the verse 25 we shall read and understand, let me post them for you guys :
(25): But as for him who will be given his Record in his left hand, will say: “I wish that I had not been given my record “
(26) “And that I had never known how my account is!
(27): would that it (death) had been my end!
(28) “My wealth has not availed me;
(29)” My powers (and arguments to defend myself) have gone from me!”
THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THS GROUP OF PEOPLE OR CATEGORY “
(30) (it will be said):”seize him and fetter him;
(31) Then throw him in blazing Fire.
(32)”Then fasten him with chain whereof the length is seventy cubits!”
(33) Verily, he used not to believe in Allah, the Most Great,
(34) And urged not on the feeding of Al-MISKIN (the poor)
(35) So no friend has he here in this day.
AND THERE COMES YOUR VERSE YOU pointed and isolated out of context:

(36) Nor any food for him except filth from washing of wounds (or foul pus)

So the people whom will get his record in his left hand “and not behind his back(i.e subtype A)” will be given this punishment that has been stated
1-(30)……..seize him
2-(30)……..and fetter him;
3-(31) then throw him in blazing Fire.
4-(32)”Then fasten him with chain whereof the length is seventy cubits!”
So this is the punishment to this group of people "subgroup A"

Now further punishment is given to the one among this group who:

A-(33) Verily, he used not to believe in Allah, the Most Great
B-(34) and urged not on the feeding of Al-MISKIN (the poor

As he will be given all the punishments stated above as he belongs to the group of people which gets their records in their left hands (not left behind their back as they have another special type of punishment made especially for this subgroup) and A SPECIAL PUNISHMENT FOR HIM and that is:
(36) nor any food FOR HIM except filth from washing of wounds (or foul pus)
So we now understand it is a special type of punishment that is given to a special sinner who doesn’t believe in Allah ((as I have mentioned before that among the people who will enter in hellfire people who believe in God(some MUSLIMS ) whom their sins exceeds their good deeds even though they are believers so they won’t be given the punishment of this type of food (washings of wounds) ))
So these 2 criteria:

A-(33) Verily, he used not to believe in Allah, the Most Great,---> (i.e dont believeing in GOD)

B-(34) and urged not on the feeding of Al-MISKIN (the poor)--->(i.e not feeding the poor )

Must be fulfilled by a person for Allah will give him his special feeding punishment (washing of wounds and pus)


So now we understand from reading the whole picture that this food is a special food punishment for special sinned people.

Now we shall proceed to the next chapter of (al-Ghashiyah) or (The overwhelming) , verse 6
(6) No food will there be for them but a poisonous thorny plant
(7) Which will neither nourish nor avail against hunger?

Now this is the GERENALIZED food for THE PEOPLE who are in hellfire as we can read from the start of the chapter

Now I am done let me give out a small example which can clarify more this issue “if I am a teacher in the school and my students made a big mistake and this mistake is that all of them didn’t do the history homework but All of them done the rest of the homework (e.g. Math and English homework for example) but there was a student in my class whose name is MIKE who didn’t do All his homework (the history, math and English) so all the class will be punished as I will order them not to go to out of the class at playtime since they all didn’t do the history homework BUT for mike he will get an extra punishment that he will not go outside during playtime PLUS he will not have his lunch with his friends but he will have it Alone because he did a larger mistake . same as the food issue in the QURAN in these verses
Finally I supplicate to Allah to guide us to the right path Amen

And I am sorry for this long reply but it had to be explained in details
Wa alsalam alekom wa rahmato Allah

Thanks for the non Muslims who read my reply :)

[Muslima]

futurdoc, are you a mind reader?

you posted what i was about to post.

[futurdoc]

it is just the truth from Allah that everyone would understand it and finds out there is no such a contradiction as to read in CONTEXT ..... should have waited a little bit longer for u to reply ? LOL