Political Crossfire Forums

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

According to Muslims, the Quran is the direct word of God. If it is the word of God, then it should be flawless, no? Therefore, if one were to find any errors or contradictions in the quran, that would prove that it is not the word of God and that Islam is a sham.
Now, this is very easy to do as there are countless contradictions and errors in the Quran. I will show just one as an example to disprove this false religion, but there are many others.
these are verses taken from the quran
Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below state

· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

· Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

You can see similar mistakes in the verses: Quran-4:11, 4:12, and 4: 176 in inheritance law. In these verses one can see the total property after adding all distributed parts adds up more than the available property, i.e., the totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical error, is it not?

God wouldnt make mistakes like this so clearly the quran is bull and is obviously a product of Mohammad since he was a false prophet who made all this stuff up.
I want to hear some muslims try and refute the contradiction i provided above....

TheTME · Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 115

The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
The quran, on the other hand, is claimed by all muslims as the direct word of God.
Do you see the difference? Surely you can do better than that...
Showing that there are errors in the bible does not refute the contradictions in the quran...

TheTME · Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 115

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
The quran, on the other hand, is claimed by all muslims as the direct word of God.
Do you see the difference? Surely you can do better than that...
Showing that there are errors in the bible does not refute the contradictions in the quran...

I have heard christians say the bible is infallible.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

TheTME wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
The quran, on the other hand, is claimed by all muslims as the direct word of God.
Do you see the difference? Surely you can do better than that...
Showing that there are errors in the bible does not refute the contradictions in the quran...

I have heard christians say the bible is infallible.

Well those christians are wrong, and i am not one of them. Whats your point? Stay on topic, please...

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2226 Location: Washington

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
Au contraire, my friend, many claim it is the direct word of god. For reasons I cannot comprehend...

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

CrossEyedMary wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
Au contraire, my friend, many claim it is the direct word of god. For reasons I cannot comprehend...

My mistake, you are correct. There are some who think the Bible is the direct word of God. However, those are the blind faithful who know nothing about their religion or the history of the Bible.
Anybody with any knowledge of textual criticism knows that the Bible cannot possibly be the direct word of God.
Staying on topic, though, i see not a single muslim has been able to defend their religion :-D
Could this be because their religion is clearly false?

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

As a Christian, who recognizes that the Bible is not perfect, contains discrepancies, and is not a complete record, I wouldn't feel a need to concern myself with any discrepancies contained in the Quran.

After all, it has been said, "There may be as much difference between what Muhammad taught in the seventh century and what the Islamic community teaches today as there is between what the apostles taught and what Christian churches teach today."

In other words, though God's word to man be perfect when he utters it, do we know how perfect those words, written down by imperfect men, remain?

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

MJB wrote: As a Christian, who recognizes that the Bible is not perfect, contains discrepancies, and is not a complete record, I wouldn't feel a need to concern myself with any discrepancies contained in the Quran.

After all, it has been said, "There may be as much difference between what Muhammad taught in the seventh century and what the Islamic community teaches today as there is between what the apostles taught and what Christian churches teach today."

In other words, though God's word to man be perfect when he utters it, do we know how perfect those words, written down by imperfect men, remain?

True. And most Christiand take the Bible as the Word, so stuff it because you're (mosly) wrong! :lol:

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2226 Location: Washington

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: TheTME wrote: The bible gets pi wrong, I guess it isn't divinely inspired and all a crock of s**t.

Yeah except everybody knows that the Bible is man-written and full of errors. Nobody is claiming that the Bible is the direct word of God.
Au contraire, my friend, many claim it is the direct word of god. For reasons I cannot comprehend...

My mistake, you are correct. There are some who think the Bible is the direct word of God. However, those are the blind faithful who know nothing about their religion or the history of the Bible.
Anybody with any knowledge of textual criticism knows that the Bible cannot possibly be the direct word of God.
Exactly! 8:)

Showboat · Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:47 am Post subject:

The Old Testament was made up by Jews in exile in Babylon by copying Babylonian myths.

The New Testament was made up by people exagerating the life of Jesus

The Koran was made up by Mohammad and he used the Christian and Jewish books as his basis.

They're all political movments using "God" and "paradise" and "hell" to control society. The sooner everyone realises that the better off the world will be.

I notice our Muslims friends on here arn't touching this thread with a ten foot pole.

Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

I'm uncertain why a discrepancy would negate the entire content of a message.
The text below is proceeded with:
These papers were sponsored by a Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington.
Yet, I'm confident the information provided is correct.
Should the information contained in these papers be discarded simply because of the claimed authorship?

Part III: The History of Urantia

57. The Origin of Urantia
58. Life Establishment on Urantia
59. The Marine Life Era on Urantia
60. Urantia during the Early Land Life Era
61. The Mammalian Era on Urantia
62. The Dawn Races of Early Man
63. The First Human Family
64. The Evolutionary Races of Color

Quote: The sixty three papers comprising this section relate the history of our planet, the geologic development,
the establishment of life, and the evolution and history of man, evolving civilizations, human institutions and governments.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Showboat wrote:
I notice our Muslims friends on here arn't touching this thread with a ten foot pole.

Yes, very interesting, huh? The thread has been up for a day and not one muslim can refute the contradictions!

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I'm uncertain why a discrepancy would negate the entire content of a message.

Because muslims think that the quran is the direct word of God. How can God have contradictions and errors?
One of the main things muslims pride themselves on is having a holy book that is the direct word of God as opposed to the bible for example which isnt.
This is why muslims consider the quran to be the "miracle" that Muhammad produced because its the direct word of God, word for word.
Therefore, if one could prove that the content of this word was fallible or contradictory, then one could conclude that it isnt the direct word of a perfect God.

Showboat · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:01 am Post subject:

It's not the contradictions in the text of the Koran that prove for me that it's wrong. You could argue the context in which the verses were said.

It's things like saying Mary is part of the Christains holy trinity, the "embriology" that was scientificly accurate in the 7th Century but has long been proved otherwise and the fact that the laws and morals of the Koran fit perfectly in the political and social climate of 7th century Arabia and no where else or when else, that make the claim of divine authorship dubious to me.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1563

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: According to Muslims, the Quran is the direct word of God. If it is the word of God, then it should be flawless, no? Therefore, if one were to find any errors or contradictions in the quran, that would prove that it is not the word of God and that Islam is a sham.
Now, this is very easy to do as there are countless contradictions and errors in the Quran. I will show just one as an example to disprove this false religion, but there are many others.
these are verses taken from the quran
Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below state

· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

· Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

You can see similar mistakes in the verses: Quran-4:11, 4:12, and 4: 176 in inheritance law. In these verses one can see the total property after adding all distributed parts adds up more than the available property, i.e., the totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical error, is it not?

God wouldnt make mistakes like this so clearly the quran is bull and is obviously a product of Mohammad since he was a false prophet who made all this stuff up.
I want to hear some muslims try and refute the contradiction i provided above....

first, i am the only active muslim in this thread when SARACEN is away and i was away!

the verses you posted are all mentioned in the quran....

it really simple, this whole universe was created in 7 days, one day for humans, that is why deja vu's occur, and six days for the rest of the universe, know you said 2 and 4 which equals 6, that took to create
the heavens in two days, and from the 4 days of nourishment 2 days were also used to create earth......

don't you do things simultaneously?

the same argument in another forum i found...

www.islamonline.net/discussione/message.jspa?messageID=7548

Showboat · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:53 am Post subject:

So Muslima, do you beleive that the Earth and Human kind were created within 6 days of the creation of the universe? Is this an irrefutable fact in Islam?

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Muslima wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: According to Muslims, the Quran is the direct word of God. If it is the word of God, then it should be flawless, no? Therefore, if one were to find any errors or contradictions in the quran, that would prove that it is not the word of God and that Islam is a sham.
Now, this is very easy to do as there are countless contradictions and errors in the Quran. I will show just one as an example to disprove this false religion, but there are many others.
these are verses taken from the quran
Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below state

· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

· Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

You can see similar mistakes in the verses: Quran-4:11, 4:12, and 4: 176 in inheritance law. In these verses one can see the total property after adding all distributed parts adds up more than the available property, i.e., the totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical error, is it not?

God wouldnt make mistakes like this so clearly the quran is bull and is obviously a product of Mohammad since he was a false prophet who made all this stuff up.
I want to hear some muslims try and refute the contradiction i provided above....

first, i am the only active muslim in this thread when SARACEN is away and i was away!

the verses you posted are all mentioned in the quran....

it really simple, this whole universe was created in 7 days, one day for humans, that is why deja vu's occur, and six days for the rest of the universe, know you said 2 and 4 which equals 6, that took to create
the heavens in two days, and from the 4 days of nourishment 2 days were also used to create earth......

don't you do things simultaneously?

the same argument in another forum i found...

www.islamonline.net/discussione/message.jspa?messageID=7548

fair enough. Try this one on for size...

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1563

Showboat wrote: So Muslima, do you beleive that the Earth and Human kind were created within 6 days of the creation of the universe? Is this an irrefutable fact in Islam?

humans were the last thing god created, and it was in the 7th day.

the universe was created in six days.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1563

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: fair enough. Try this one on for size...

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

http://islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Individual/article07.shtml

if you aren't convinced tell me......

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Muslima wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: fair enough. Try this one on for size...

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

http://islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Individual/article07.shtml

if you aren't convinced tell me......

That didnt really address my question at all :?
Can you just explain to me how God would say "were made from a mere blood clot" and then go on and say he made us from nothing?