Political Crossfire Forums

[Thrilla]

who can you trust with ensuring your safety ?
who can you trust with ensuring you keep the rights enumerated in our Constitution?
who can you trust to ensure our representative government agencies do not cross the boundaries into tyranny?

i've asked this question to many a person over the course of my life..... most answers are all along the same lines..
" the police ".... "the military".... "the Marine"( yeah.. i was flattered.. but thats besides the point :lol: )
ironically... i have heard that we should entrust "the government" more than a few times.

now... i see the points of the people whom answered the questions.... a certain amount of trust is placed on our governmental authorities to keep watch over our rights...our safety... and yes... even themselves.

here is what i have a problem with.... after admitting that a certain amount of trust is placed on the governments shoulders..... i cant reconcile why a person would place all of their trust like this.....as a US Marine.. and a sworn defenders of all those things in question... I do not and can not advocate placing all of my trust in others.

im not saying or insinuating that government authorities are "out to get us".... nor do i believe their are active "evil" elements inside government whom are hell bent on depriving us of our rights..... i believe the actions of the government are normally meant with good intentions.... but we all know the old saying about good intentions.

here are a couple of examples of those whom are entrusted with our protection taking part in actions i consider offensive and in opposition to the principles of this country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk&NR in this video... we see a government agent..and a police officer....taped through the eyes of a citizen.. a well informed citizen i might add.... ill let you be the judge


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgPR9I4KMNI here is a news report from New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.... the military is involved in this one

now most reasonable people can see that the authorities in each of the videos are not "evil tyrants".. in fact... they are probably good people just doing a job... with good intentions

I know of only one entity that can be entrusted 100% to ensure my protection.... myself.... and in order to keep the balance of power intact.... my tool of choice is the firearm.... in fact.. i not only intent to balance the power of the authorities.. i mean to push that balance in my favor as much as possible.
I fear one day that i will awaken to a country that has lawfully, and with good intentions, stripped me of that power... that natural right to defend myself and my property....and I fear the pro gun control advocates will awaken on that same day and say " oh s**t... what have we done"...for they will be in jeopardy just as much as I... I do not want the day to come where i have to say " I told you so"

so what say you?

who can you trust?

[Otacon]

I trust myself, and myself alone. It's that simple. I may be willing to on occasion pass trust to another individual, but I prefer not to rely on any large body.

[lilwolf]

I have always put a little (little here) bit of trust in the Gov. I spent to many years in the Army to not to have learned to trust the guys in my units. But aside from them there are only a few people that I trust.

I have learned over the years that I have to trust myself before anyone else. I rely on myself and what I am.
As far as people I would trust with my life - only 2 people - one is a brother from vietnam. Brother in the sense that we bacame brothers.
The other is my lady. I trust her that much.
:-D

[RooK]

Ditto, only person I can trust 100% is myself. I can only count on myself to be present when I am in need, and my ability to handle the situations depends on my cunning and tools. Limiting either of those handicaps my abilities and it is something I cannot condone.

[TNBiologist]

I place a small amount of trust in the government because there are a few (very few) politicians that I beleive are actually still following and trying to defend the constitution. Overall though, I have to agree with Thrilla's "good intentions" idea.

I trust myself, my father and thats about it. Maybe a couple guys I was a midshipman with, maybe.

[micfranklin]

Well right now, I know I can't trust the government with protecting my Constitutional rights, seeing as how they keep trying to compromise them.

[Lucky Luke]

Thrilla wrote: who can you trust with ensuring your safety ?
who can you trust with ensuring you keep the rights enumerated in our Constitution?
who can you trust to ensure our representative government agencies do not cross the boundaries into tyranny?

i've asked this question to many a person over the course of my life..... most answers are all along the same lines..
" the police ".... "the military".... "the Marine"( yeah.. i was flattered.. but thats besides the point :lol: )
ironically... i have heard that we should entrust "the government" more than a few times.

now... i see the points of the people whom answered the questions.... a certain amount of trust is placed on our governmental authorities to keep watch over our rights...our safety... and yes... even themselves.

here is what i have a problem with.... after admitting that a certain amount of trust is placed on the governments shoulders..... i cant reconcile why a person would place all of their trust like this.....as a US Marine.. and a sworn defenders of all those things in question... I do not and can not advocate placing all of my trust in others.

im not saying or insinuating that government authorities are "out to get us".... nor do i believe their are active "evil" elements inside government whom are hell bent on depriving us of our rights..... i believe the actions of the government are normally meant with good intentions.... but we all know the old saying about good intentions.

here are a couple of examples of those whom are entrusted with our protection taking part in actions i consider offensive and in opposition to the principles of this country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk&NR in this video... we see a government agent..and a police officer....taped through the eyes of a citizen.. a well informed citizen i might add.... ill let you be the judge


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgPR9I4KMNI here is a news report from New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.... the military is involved in this one

now most reasonable people can see that the authorities in each of the videos are not "evil tyrants".. in fact... they are probably good people just doing a job... with good intentions

I know of only one entity that can be entrusted 100% to ensure my protection.... myself.... and in order to keep the balance of power intact.... my tool of choice is the firearm.... in fact.. i not only intent to balance the power of the authorities.. i mean to push that balance in my favor as much as possible.
I fear one day that i will awaken to a country that has lawfully, and with good intentions, stripped me of that power... that natural right to defend myself and my property....and I fear the pro gun control advocates will awaken on that same day and say " oh s**t... what have we done"...for they will be in jeopardy just as much as I... I do not want the day to come where i have to say " I told you so"

so what say you?

who can you trust?

The gun control debate is not really about how much you should trust your government to protect you but more about can your government trust you with guns?

Gun control is a matter for the government to handle not a matter for every one of us to make our own laws depending of our circumstances.
:-D
:-D

[Rankor and Pissing]

There's a difference between Trust and Reliance. I rely on the local, state and federal government for certain things - however I do not trust they will always follow through nor will they always earn that trust. Given the system we currently have, if you're a government employee you rely on that agency to provide you a check - same in the private sector.

I rely on the police to keep law and order, I do not rely on them to protect me or my family - that is my responsibility. I do not have a policeman with me 24/7 therefore they cannot be responsible. I do expect, however, that once the police are involved, that they will do their duty per their oath and within the laws - I trust them to do that.

Who do I trust? Ultimately, I trust 99% in myself the 1% is the unknown of how I would act in a certain unknown situation. I trust in most of the people who are family and friends - that trust may or may not exceed the 99% I have for myself. As with anything, trust is earned over a period of time, through defining situations. Trusting in the personal defense of me and mine - I trust me. I would hope others could trust me to do the same for them as I would for myself.

[perdidochas]

Lucky Luke wrote:

The gun control debate is not really about how much you should trust your government to protect you but more about can your government trust you with guns?
That is the crux of the philosophical difference between gun control advocates and anti-gun control people. Our basic philosophy of government is that government is there to protect our rights, not protect us. The question is not who the government can trust with guns, but who can't be trusted with guns. My basic assumption is that until proven otherwise (by criminal or mental health proceedings), everybody should be trusted with guns. It's the philosophical difference between guilty if accused, and innocent until proven guilty.

Lucky Luke wrote: Gun control is a matter for the government to handle not a matter for every one of us to make our own laws depending of our circumstances.

The government's job is to protect rights, not impose on our rights.

[lilwolf]

The issue here Luke is as you put it, "can your government trust you with guns"

Obviously the English government could not trust you with guns and you gave up your rights.
What the govt. does is one thing, but who do we trust is more on a level of who can we trust.
Some say friends, or family, or just themselves. That's all well and good.
Most people here have had issues with the govt. and rightly so.
The one thing you can count on is this:
The government is going to do what it wants, and us little guys are in the middle. But when it is all said and done, we will still have our guns and be able to defend ourselves. You have to rely on unarmed cops to get to you before you are dead.
So please do not turn this thread into a gun issue. You are going to turn it into a trolling fesival for your self.

[Azuresidus]

I trust myself and about two other people with my safety and protection. My mother and my lover, and they are it. I hope that they know that they can trust me, too.

[britboy]

Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ...

[airo]

britboy wrote: Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ... Within your lifetime, you're going to regret this post.

[Onevote]

airo wrote: britboy wrote: Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ... Within your lifetime, you're going to regret this post. Indeed! there are people all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and right here in the America's that have lived under tyranny, who are still alive to tell the tale. People who have had their loved ones murdered, their property stolen, their freedom squashed, by Maniacs under the guise of Government. All you need to do is take a short history lesson to figure this to be true. The very Idea that "We" as western societies are somehow immune to this type of treatment is absurd. It has happened and will happen sooner or later in every country, including the good ol' USA.

I'll keep every gun I can get my hands on, thank you!

[Rankor and Pissing]

airo wrote: britboy wrote: Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ... Within your lifetime, you're going to regret this post.

Barnum's (or Bessimer's quote - whichever you think actually said it) quote, "There's a sucker born every minute." comes vaguely to mind.

[airo]

Onevote wrote: airo wrote: britboy wrote: Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ... Within your lifetime, you're going to regret this post. Indeed! there are people all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and right here in the America's that have lived under tyranny, who are still alive to tell the tale. People who have had their loved ones murdered, their property stolen, their freedom squashed, by Maniacs under the guise of Government. All you need to do is take a short history lesson to figure this to be true. The very Idea that "We" as western societies are somehow immune to this type of treatment is absurd. It has happened and will happen sooner or later in every country, including the good ol' USA.

I'll keep every gun I can get my hands on, thank you!

Not even just your government;

Relying on anyone but yourself to defend your life, liberty, property, and the same of those who you keep close and love, is utterly foolish.

Unfortunatly, it often takes a sad event for people to realize that the job of the police is to dole out judgement where judgement is due, and serve the community to the best of their abilities. Often times, they cannot defend you and your family.

[Lucky Luke]

perdidochas wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:

The gun control debate is not really about how much you should trust your government to protect you but more about can your government trust you with guns?
That is the crux of the philosophical difference between gun control advocates and anti-gun control people. Our basic philosophy of government is that government is there to protect our rights, not protect us. The question is not who the government can trust with guns, but who can't be trusted with guns. My basic assumption is that until proven otherwise (by criminal or mental health proceedings), everybody should be trusted with guns. It's the philosophical difference between guilty if accused, and innocent until proven guilty.

Lucky Luke wrote: Gun control is a matter for the government to handle not a matter for every one of us to make our own laws depending of our circumstances.

The government's job is to protect rights, not impose on our rights.

I meant gun control is regulated by the government Perdidochas, what make you think it is somebody else's job to control guns?

:-D
:-D

[Thrilla]

Lucky Luke wrote: perdidochas wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:

The gun control debate is not really about how much you should trust your government to protect you but more about can your government trust you with guns?
That is the crux of the philosophical difference between gun control advocates and anti-gun control people. Our basic philosophy of government is that government is there to protect our rights, not protect us. The question is not who the government can trust with guns, but who can't be trusted with guns. My basic assumption is that until proven otherwise (by criminal or mental health proceedings), everybody should be trusted with guns. It's the philosophical difference between guilty if accused, and innocent until proven guilty.

Lucky Luke wrote: Gun control is a matter for the government to handle not a matter for every one of us to make our own laws depending of our circumstances.

The government's job is to protect rights, not impose on our rights.

I meant gun control is regulated by the government Perdidochas, what make you think it is somebody else's job to control guns?

:-D
:-D what makes you think guns need to be controlled?

[Onevote]

airo wrote: Onevote wrote: airo wrote: britboy wrote: Currently I trust blimin' loads of people.

I trust my government pretty much implicitly. I trust the police (although think of them as pretty lazy, I don't think they'd willingly hurt law-abiding citizens). I trust the military. I trust my family, my friends.

None of these people have ever abused my trust, so why bother living in fear of them? That'd just turn me into a scared and paranoid person!

God, if I didn't trust my own government and thought they were trying to enslave me ( !! what?!?), I might go as far as to own a gun. But I'd change country first, as that sounds like a rubbish way to live compared to just trusting them (no offence)!

And come to think of it, a gun wouldn't protect me from government anyway it would be more likely to get me shot ... Within your lifetime, you're going to regret this post. Indeed! there are people all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and right here in the America's that have lived under tyranny, who are still alive to tell the tale. People who have had their loved ones murdered, their property stolen, their freedom squashed, by Maniacs under the guise of Government. All you need to do is take a short history lesson to figure this to be true. The very Idea that "We" as western societies are somehow immune to this type of treatment is absurd. It has happened and will happen sooner or later in every country, including the good ol' USA.

I'll keep every gun I can get my hands on, thank you!

Not even just your government;

Relying on anyone but yourself to defend your life, liberty, property, and the same of those who you keep close and love, is utterly foolish.

Unfortunatly, it often takes a sad event for people to realize that the job of the police is to dole out judgement where judgement is due, and serve the community to the best of their abilities. Often times, they cannot defend you and your family. Absolutely! The police are there to find who did what to whom and make a report . That's about it. 90% of the time they are indifferent anyway, and just want to get it over with so they can go.

[leftneckredwing]

Lucky Luke wrote: Thrilla wrote: who can you trust with ensuring your safety ?
who can you trust with ensuring you keep the rights enumerated in our Constitution?
who can you trust to ensure our representative government agencies do not cross the boundaries into tyranny?

i've asked this question to many a person over the course of my life..... most answers are all along the same lines..
" the police ".... "the military".... "the Marine"( yeah.. i was flattered.. but thats besides the point :lol: )
ironically... i have heard that we should entrust "the government" more than a few times.

now... i see the points of the people whom answered the questions.... a certain amount of trust is placed on our governmental authorities to keep watch over our rights...our safety... and yes... even themselves.

here is what i have a problem with.... after admitting that a certain amount of trust is placed on the governments shoulders..... i cant reconcile why a person would place all of their trust like this.....as a US Marine.. and a sworn defenders of all those things in question... I do not and can not advocate placing all of my trust in others.

im not saying or insinuating that government authorities are "out to get us".... nor do i believe their are active "evil" elements inside government whom are hell bent on depriving us of our rights..... i believe the actions of the government are normally meant with good intentions.... but we all know the old saying about good intentions.

here are a couple of examples of those whom are entrusted with our protection taking part in actions i consider offensive and in opposition to the principles of this country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk&NR in this video... we see a government agent..and a police officer....taped through the eyes of a citizen.. a well informed citizen i might add.... ill let you be the judge


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgPR9I4KMNI here is a news report from New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina.... the military is involved in this one

now most reasonable people can see that the authorities in each of the videos are not "evil tyrants".. in fact... they are probably good people just doing a job... with good intentions

I know of only one entity that can be entrusted 100% to ensure my protection.... myself.... and in order to keep the balance of power intact.... my tool of choice is the firearm.... in fact.. i not only intent to balance the power of the authorities.. i mean to push that balance in my favor as much as possible.
I fear one day that i will awaken to a country that has lawfully, and with good intentions, stripped me of that power... that natural right to defend myself and my property....and I fear the pro gun control advocates will awaken on that same day and say " oh s**t... what have we done"...for they will be in jeopardy just as much as I... I do not want the day to come where i have to say " I told you so"

so what say you?

who can you trust?

The gun control debate is not really about how much you should trust your government to protect you but more about can your government trust you with guns?

Gun control is a matter for the government to handle not a matter for every one of us to make our own laws depending of our circumstances.
:-D
:-D

In other words, you don't want to be responsible for yourself, but you want to assume the right to be the sole arbiter of who is for you and for everyone else.

What a pussified comment. You better check between you legs and make sure there's something there.

My God man, have you no pride in your very own humanity? What the eff do you think it is that makes you human? Your DNA sequence and that's it? You just don't have a spine at all. I'll bet there's nothing but a big yellow streak right up your back. Is there nothing to you but a stupid slogan? Get rid of guns git rid of guns git rid of guns. There's just nothing else to you. At all. Ant hill mentality.

Get a friggin' life.

No hammers this time. That was just too damn sad. You could not have hammered your own self any more than I would have.

I would say in your situation you should consider a sex change and tell them this time you want to be a man.