Political Crossfire Forums

[THEXRATED]

fourtysixandtwo wrote: THEXRATED wrote: Monotheistic religions lead to intolerance.

:lol: I think PEOPLE are intolerant, religion and the idea of monotheistic religions does the opposite, last time i checked Jesus preached tolerance, while one it does show that the generalization is not always true.

Message and acts are two different things. Did you miss the history class when they were talking about the Reformation?

[Gilbert1908]

Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.

Surely there are many supportable referencable articles by theologians or exceprts from the NT that permit violence toward others and promote bloodthirsty actions.

After all it is ONLY Christians that have this aggressive violent pattern, it is not any other religion or belief system and this is made obvious by the lack of violence and bloodshed in all of those areas where Christianity is not as prevlaent like Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

[toddytodd]

Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

I hope we all realize that what modern Christians do or don't do in no way effects the point of view of Jesus had. Much like what GW is doing doesn't reflect the vast majority of the USA :wink:
It does, however, reflect positively (and negatively) on Christianity as a whole.

[An Advacate of the faith]

THEXRATED wrote: Monotheistic religions lead to intolerance. same with polythistic religions, formations of any type involving humans. ancieant greece comes to mind mostly they where polytheistic. Druids ancieant brittens. Intolerance is a human condition. What is so great about absolute tolerance, that leads to chaos, the most real definition of hell is chaos

[Otacon]

mojo wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Did Jesus ever kill anybody? Did he ever support any War?

No

That's the point. Jesus didn't support war, yet many of his so-called "followers" desire death and destruction of those who don't convert.

[Silkheat]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.

Surely there are many supportable referencable articles by theologians or exceprts from the NT that permit violence toward others and promote bloodthirsty actions.

After all it is ONLY Christians that have this aggressive violent pattern, it is not any other religion or belief system and this is made obvious by the lack of violence and bloodshed in all of those areas where Christianity is not as prevlaent like Africa, Asia and the Middle East.


How many people have been killed by christians? How many wars waged in god's name? You can dance around the issue all you want, but the problem still remains that practiced Christianity has violent effects.

[Gilbert1908]

Silkheat wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.

Surely there are many supportable referencable articles by theologians or exceprts from the NT that permit violence toward others and promote bloodthirsty actions.

After all it is ONLY Christians that have this aggressive violent pattern, it is not any other religion or belief system and this is made obvious by the lack of violence and bloodshed in all of those areas where Christianity is not as prevlaent like Africa, Asia and the Middle East.


How many people have been killed by christians? How many wars waged in god's name? You can dance around the issue all you want, but the problem still remains that practiced Christianity has violent effects.

You can avoid the obvious all you want but HUMAN BEINGS are the problem when it comes to violence NOT thier religions or philosophies.

If you want to pretend that the teachings of author of the Sermon on the Mount are violent, then no logic, proof or truth will change your mind.

If you want to deny that human beings on every continent, in every country and forever have favored power and posession over life and peace then there is little I can say.

If you are so enamored with a position that you will ignore the veritable history of humankind in favor it what possible answer would even make you think?

[David Kelly]

I have 1 thing to say. This is a common reply to the question of why aliens haven't visited us yet and I think it fits this argument well.
Humans are pure evil and intelligent. No one would want to meat us. (Or to fit this argument, it's Human nature, not Jesus.)

[ElcharroNegro]

So, without Christianity the world would live on a long lastly peace right? I mean, Jesus must have invented war, since there wasn't any war before him and everyone lived like brothers.

The empires always have been pro-war, no matter what religion they say to follow, that's my answer.

[David Kelly]

ElcharroNegro wrote: So, without Christianity the world would live on a long lastly peace right? I mean, Jesus must have invented war, since there wasn't any war before him and everyone lived like brothers.

The empires always have been pro-war, no matter what religion they say to follow, that's my answer.

You know, you're right. America was founded on Roman ideals. America has become a 21st Century Roman Empire. And like the Romans of old, we like to conquer, only we don't outright occupy.

[sparsely]

Fido wrote:
Power is another God, and if some who worship that God malign and slander Jesus by calling themselves Christians what is that to me? It is not Christ that real Christians are selling; but another understanding, and a paradigm, if you will, that you don't get if you don't give, and that is that. Jesus wasn't selling Jesus. Jesus was teaching a philosophy long ignored by the Hebrews though commonly accepted by them. This is no different for Christians. We would crucify him all over again if he returned. We hate him, and hate what he taught. And what he taught was how to survive injustice, while every wants to know how to profit from injustice. We are simply incompatible with Jesus.

[Random Evil Guy]

jesus, if he ever existed, was a cool dude. christians, on the other hand, are mostly sad and pathetic ****. i think that's the short of it...

[Towie]

mojo wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Did Jesus ever kill anybody? Did he ever support any War?

No

Exactly. Jesus was, by today's standards, a hippie. He was all about loving one another, never hurting. Think of the golden rule. Just because so many followers think that spreading the word is more important that the GOLDEN RULE, isn't Jesus' fault. It their fault for seeking power. They will have their place in the hell... er... the Lake of Burning Sulfur (look up differences). Yes, Lake of Burning Sulfur. Whatever it is, Jesus was no pro-war conservative. If he were here now, he'd be anti-war, and very liberal. He laid down laws for his followers, NOT for humanity on a whole (though he did want all humanity to be his followers).

[PoS]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.


Matthew:

5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (one of Ann Coulter's fav bible passages BTW)

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

[Gilbert1908]

PoS wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.


Matthew:

5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (one of Ann Coulter's fav bible passages BTW)

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

OK lets try to take this one step at a time first lets establish meanings of two words apparently not taken into consideration in your examples.


Metaphor-a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them

second

Parable- a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle (Merriam Webster)

Think about what the WORDS of Jesus did during His own time. Think hard, what happened was there controversy? Disagreement? Did he cause some people to get angry with Him and his followers? Did some families argue about whether He was an heretical Rabbi or The Christ?

DO people STILL argue about all of these things????

Maybe, just maybe when one reads ALL of the New Testament and puts this passage about the sword (the other two are blatently obvious in context and need NO discussion) in any commons sense context and NOT one which is attempting to prove a point.

For Jesus has another commentary on the LITERAL use of swords does he not?

Matt 26

And behold one of them that were with Jesus, stretching forth his hand, drew out his sword: and striking the servant of the high priest, cut off his ear.
26:52. Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

and it dove tails perfectly with this message of violence

5:38. You have heard that it hath been said: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

5:39. But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:*

5:40. And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.

5:41. And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two.

Notice that in YOUR example Christ is speaking OF HIMSELF and in the two examples I have here (there many more as you know) Christ is specifically INSTRUCTING others, His followers.

So which is it? The answer is simple of course and ANYONE who wants to pretend that the passage you chose has a meaning pertaining to war or physical violence or some way "justifies" killing in the name of God is ONLY attempting to make a point and has made NO attempt to understand what virtually EVERY Christian denomination teaches about this VERY chapter.

Expect that living a Christian life could seperate you from friends, family and others who either don't share or HATE such a life.

Case in point right here !

[melchizedek22]

Gilbert1908 wrote: PoS wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.


Matthew:

5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (one of Ann Coulter's fav bible passages BTW)

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

OK lets try to take this one step at a time first lets establish meanings of two words apparently not taken into consideration in your examples.


Metaphor-a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them

second

Parable- a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle (Merriam Webster)

Think about what the WORDS of Jesus did during His own time. Think hard, what happened was there controversy? Disagreement? Did he cause some people to get angry with Him and his followers? Did some families argue about whether He was an heretical Rabbi or The Christ?

DO people STILL argue about all of these things????

Maybe, just maybe when one reads ALL of the New Testament and puts this passage about the sword (the other two are blatently obvious in context and need NO discussion) in any commons sense context and NOT one which is attempting to prove a point.

For Jesus has another commentary on the LITERAL use of swords does he not?

Matt 26

And behold one of them that were with Jesus, stretching forth his hand, drew out his sword: and striking the servant of the high priest, cut off his ear.
26:52. Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

and it dove tails perfectly with this message of violence

5:38. You have heard that it hath been said: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

5:39. But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:*

5:40. And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.

5:41. And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two.

Notice that in YOUR example Christ is speaking OF HIMSELF and in the two examples I have here (there many more as you know) Christ is specifically INSTRUCTING others, His followers.

So which is it? The answer is simple of course and ANYONE who wants to pretend that the passage you chose has a meaning pertaining to war or physical violence or some way "justifies" killing in the name of God is ONLY attempting to make a point and has made NO attempt to understand what virtually EVERY Christian denomination teaches about this VERY chapter.

Expect that living a Christian life could seperate you from friends, family and others who either don't share or HATE such a life.

Case in point right here !

Mathew 10vs 34 = Numbers22vs22

[Gilbert1908]

melchizedek22 wrote:

Mathew 10vs 34 = Numbers22vs22

I made my point about Matt in the post above.

Is it your point that God had a different approach to the Jews in the Old Testament than the Christ of the New Testament?

That might be explain why there are Jews and Christians, and by the way the pefect illustration of what is meant when Christ talks about HIM being a SWORD!!

History itself is divided by AD and BC.

[liberty12345]

Silkheat wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Since your assertion is that Christianity is a bloody religion and not that Christians are capable of acting in non-Christian ways, I am sure you can point out the theological areas which make Christianity so violent.

Surely there are many supportable referencable articles by theologians or exceprts from the NT that permit violence toward others and promote bloodthirsty actions.

After all it is ONLY Christians that have this aggressive violent pattern, it is not any other religion or belief system and this is made obvious by the lack of violence and bloodshed in all of those areas where Christianity is not as prevlaent like Africa, Asia and the Middle East.


How many people have been killed by christians? How many wars waged in god's name? You can dance around the issue all you want, but the problem still remains that practiced Christianity has violent effects.

for starters the title of this thread is very miss leading "why does jesus like war so much?" jesus was against wars of all kinds and was the hippy of his day!

i take your a muslim?

how many wars was jesus involved in the bible?
how many wars was mohammed in charge of in the quran?

go figure.

[eynon]

THEXRATED wrote: wannabe wrote: THEXRATED wrote: Monotheistic religions lead to intolerance.

and the Saffron Tigers embrace diversity :roll:


stop being so naive, people are f***ing intolerant, we're tribal......we evolved that way.

Monotheistic religions have caused much turmoil throughout history. And continue to do so today.

I am not saying that there aren't other reasons for intolerant behaviour, but history also show that in those countries where majority practise(d) polytheistic religions haven been more tolerant against other religious groups.


not for the last couple hundred years.......Daoist China slaughtered Muslims and Christians in the 18th and 19th centuries, Buddhist Japan slaughtered it's Christians in the 17th century, in the 20th century Hindu Indians have butchered thosuands of Muslims.

while at the same time Christian nations and empires, such as teh United States and Britain have become some of history's most religiously tolerant nations.

you may have had a point, in the 12th century, but it's simply not the case anymore, nor has it been for hundreds of years.

[eynon]

Otacon wrote: mojo wrote: Silkheat wrote: To say that Christianity is a bloody religion is an understatement. In todays society we still see it as Christians everywhere demanded Isalmic blood, even when the country had nothing to do with 9/11.

So my question is this; Jesus in the bible was pro-compasion, what happened that made hime pro-war?

Did Jesus ever kill anybody? Did he ever support any War?

No

That's the point. Jesus didn't support war, yet many of his so-called "followers" desire death and destruction of those who don't convert.

:lol: are you speaking to us from the 16th century or something?