Political Crossfire Forums

[wormwood]

Quote: Do you really believe that I'm ignorant about what Gnostics believe? First off....they believe that the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh) is evil and that the "Christ" is a separate god all together. Can you blame them for seeing it that way? I doubt many were trained in a synagogue. They probably had only the text and traditions to base their conclusions on. Looking in OT God calls for the destruction of man (Noah), is constantly dishing out punishment, and lays waste to all who oppose him. According to JC God is all loving for the first time suddenly. The two beings seem to contradict each other. The only way I can reconcile this is to consider that at one point (perhaps OT perhaps NT) it is not God's direct will being expressed, rather it is marked with the personality of God's messenger chosen to deliver his will. For example, the OT miracles were all carried out by heavenly, (and obviously faulted) messengers, that grew impatient at humans inability to follow the law. Or the NT message was more based on Jesus' personal philosophy or understanding of reality.

Quote: Are you one of this who God has preordained? I seriously doubt it John :lol: I was hoping to swoop in under the radar

[sparsely]

John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: David Kelly wrote: Hum, funny how the Others were just fine until the Catholics squashed them all. Now they're all evil.
Now there are 2, but 1 came from the Catholics and still the Others are evil. I find this wrong on so many levels. Right they may be and wrong they may be, but evil they are not!


I'm evil and so are you. We're all evil. Sin is evil, so if you sin even a little bit...then that sin is coming from inside of who you are and is positive proof that you are in fact...evil.
But you are also created in the image of God, and God most certainly is not evil.

How do you reconile that fact w/ the "you are evil" bit?


Since the creation of man, mankind has fallen into a corrupt sinful state of being.

The sense in which man fell is the same as we would say someone "fell" for a scam.
The scam we fell for was the idea that we are evil.
That we are in some way, not in the image of our creator.
In Genesis, we see it spelled out. We were naked and unashamed.
What we became convinced of was the idea that we are unacceptable.


With enoch we see it is possible for man to live and dwell and not be deceived at some point..and what happens? He was "reabsorbed" by God.
The forbidden fruit is not a literal fruit, but the idea that there is something which separates us from Divinity, which we then must overcome by following the instructions of another.

We were created with no "purpose", no instructions, no edicts...just to be and do and love and be loved by enjoying the bounty that is Creation.
So next time someone tries to sell you "salvation" or how to get right with god, know they are a serpent who seeks to deceive you and place you under their influence.

By the time it's over...no snakes alive. ;)

[eynon]

sparsely wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: David Kelly wrote: Hum, funny how the Others were just fine until the Catholics squashed them all. Now they're all evil.
Now there are 2, but 1 came from the Catholics and still the Others are evil. I find this wrong on so many levels. Right they may be and wrong they may be, but evil they are not!


I'm evil and so are you. We're all evil. Sin is evil, so if you sin even a little bit...then that sin is coming from inside of who you are and is positive proof that you are in fact...evil.
But you are also created in the image of God, and God most certainly is not evil.

How do you reconile that fact w/ the "you are evil" bit?


Since the creation of man, mankind has fallen into a corrupt sinful state of being.

The sense in which man fell is the same as we would say someone "fell" for a scam.
The scam we fell for was the idea that we are evil.
That we are in some way, not in the image of our creator.
In Genesis, we see it spelled out. We were naked and unashamed.
What we became convinced of was the idea that we are unacceptable.


With enoch we see it is possible for man to live and dwell and not be deceived at some point..and what happens? He was "reabsorbed" by God.
The forbidden fruit is not a literal fruit, but the idea that there is something which separates us from Divinity, which we then must overcome by following the instructions of another.

We were created with no "purpose", no instructions, no edicts...just to be and do and love and be loved by enjoying the bounty that is Creation.
So next time someone tries to sell you "salvation" or how to get right with god, know they are a serpent who seeks to deceive you and place you under their influence.

By the time it's over...no snakes alive. ;)

:hip:

[John]

Quote: Can you blame them for seeing it that way?

You bet I can. God being a loving and mercyful God wasn't first revealed by Jesus...although with Jesus being God it's kinda hard not to see it so plainly.


Have you ever read the book of Jonah?


Quote: I seriously doubt it John

I'm truly saddened to hear that. :(

[wormwood]

Quote: You bet I can. God being a loving and mercyful God wasn't first revealed by Jesus...although with Jesus being God it's kinda hard not to see it so plainly. But John, you have the benefit of thousands of years of debate and philosophy to base that conclusion on. These guys had a few years, with only the knowledge available to them at the time. I can remove myself from my cultural context and guess that I would have thought that an odd change for a deity. I know you say God was always completely compassionate, but that contradicts OT behavior...unless OT voice of God was really the voice of a messenger. Eye for an eye, became turn the other cheek over night. Something is up with that. I can't say what...but it's something.

Quote: I'm truly saddened to hear that. I'll put it to you this way... I don't feel chosen, most of the time I just feel picked on. :lol: I have devoted a fair amount of time trying to know God...if it was meant to be it will be.

[John]

Quote: But John, you have the benefit of thousands of years of debate and philosophy to base that conclusion on. These guys had a few years, with only the knowledge available to them at the time. I can remove myself from my cultural context and guess that I would have thought that an odd change for a deity. I know you say God was always completely compassionate, but that contradicts OT behavior...unless OT voice of God was really the voice of a messenger. Eye for an eye, became turn the other cheek over night. Something is up with that. I can't say what...but it's something.

I wouldn't say it was overnight.

Can't you see that "eye for an eye" was a commandment of mercy?


If I jab out your eye, your instinct isn't just take my eye in return. It would be to jab out both my eyes and cut off my balls and then kill me and my family. It was a brutal world that people lived in back then. Eye for an eye was a commandment of restraint.

So....have you read the book of Jonah?

[wormwood]

Quote: I wouldn't say it was overnight.

Can't you see that "eye for an eye" was a commandment of mercy?


If I jab out your eye, your instinct isn't just take my eye in return. It would be to jab out both my eyes and cut off my balls and then kill me and my family. It was a brutal world that people lived in back then. Eye for an eye was a commandment of restraint. Ok I guess I can see that. Still, gouging an eye seems a little more strict than turning the other cheek (or eye respectively).

Quote: So....have you read the book of Jonah? Yeah I know John... always gotta be such a smart guy. And in Genesis, Abraham pleads for Lot and God had mercy...I know that there are instances of mercy in OT...but still he was going to kill Lot before Abraham intervened...He was going to destroy Nineveh before Jonah spoke up. He was going to kill every living thing on earth because he was pissed off at humans (Noah). Not exactly the picture of compassion, unless, like most humans, God is driven by His emotions over his intellect at first and his fits of anger are subdued by moments of compassion.

[TheTME]

wormwood wrote: Quote: I wouldn't say it was overnight.

Can't you see that "eye for an eye" was a commandment of mercy?


If I jab out your eye, your instinct isn't just take my eye in return. It would be to jab out both my eyes and cut off my balls and then kill me and my family. It was a brutal world that people lived in back then. Eye for an eye was a commandment of restraint. Ok I guess I can see that. Still, gouging an eye seems a little more strict than turning the other cheek (or eye respectively).

Quote: So....have you read the book of Jonah? Yeah I know John... always gotta be such a smart guy. And in Genesis, Abraham pleads for Lot and God had mercy...I know that there are instances of mercy in OT...but still he was going to kill Lot before Abraham intervened...He was going to destroy Nineveh before Jonah spoke up. He was going to kill every living thing on earth because he was pissed off at humans (Noah). Not exactly the picture of compassion, unless, like most humans, God is driven by His emotions over his intellect at first and his fits of anger are subdued by moments of compassion.


No doubt, he almost destroyed the Israelites sooo many times before Moses "reminded" him of his promise.

[John]

Quote: Ok I guess I can see that. Still, gouging an eye seems a little more strict than turning the other cheek (or eye respectively).

Of course. We deserve to have our eye gouged out...that would be true justice (I'm using that as an example of going to Hell for all eternity, this is actually justice for the sin we have cominted). God had to show us that truth through the Law. But then after we are able to understand what we deserve...God shows us His grace by turning the other cheek and dying on the cross for us. As a Christian you are to live by His example since His "turning the other cheek" is so much more than any little cheek turning we might do for another person. If God can do it being the Master...then we should certainly being the servant. God has shown us Grace...so what is it in return to show grace to our fellow man and be a witness of what God did for us?

[John]

Quote: Yeah I know John... always gotta be such a smart guy. And in Genesis, Abraham pleads for Lot and God had mercy...I know that there are instances of mercy in OT...but still he was going to kill Lot before Abraham intervened...He was going to destroy Nineveh before Jonah spoke up. He was going to kill every living thing on earth because he was pissed off at humans (Noah). Not exactly the picture of compassion, unless, like most humans, God is driven by His emotions over his intellect at first and his fits of anger are subdued by moments of compassion.

That not correct. God didn't change His mind about Lot. God was allowing Abraham to do the right thing. And you apparently haven't read the book of Jonah. Jonah doesn't speak up to save Nineveh. Jonah runs as far away as he can from Nineveh becuase he knows that God is compassionate and is going to save them. After Jonah finally goes to Nineveh...ah heck...I wrote a paper on it...why don't you read it.


------------------------------------------------------------




When most people think of the Old Testament, it isn’t necessarily God’s Grace that comes to mind. Most people have a tendency to only see judgment and miss out on the real message that God is trying to reveal. The whole bible is really God’s revelation of his Grace. But to even grasp this point one must first have a concept of what Grace really is.

Grace is often confused with mercy because the use of the two terms is frequently synonymous. Yet, there is a crucial distinction between the two, Grace is a loving response when love is undeserved, and mercy is a loving response prompted by the misery and helplessness of the one on whom the love is to be showered. Grace answers to the undeserving; mercy answers to the miserable. Grace is unmerited favor, it’s the unconditional love of a Holy God poured out on an undeserving people and although God is merciful, His glory is seen and better understood by His Grace.

I believe the entire Old Testament (and without question the New) is designed around the theme of Grace but to really bring the message home and for the sake of simplification I’m going to focus on two books from the Minor Prophets (a section of the Old Testament that seems to be saturated with judgment). The first book that helps in our understanding of God’s Grace is Hosea and how God cast him as a type for actually acting out God’s Grace in his marriage. The second will go into the book of Jonah and the tendency of man to actually hate the Grace of God. I believe that these two books in the Minor Prophets help complete the “big picture” of understanding God’s heart and how incredible His Grace really is.

The book of Hosea is without a doubt a picture of God’s Grace. God’s Grace is revealed through His words as it was spoken to the nation through the life of Hosea, his wife, and his children. It is really truth incarnated, acted out, if you will, not by actors but by real live people. Just in case we were to miss the point that God was going to have his prophet Hosea act out a lesson for the people in a type of living parable, He removes all doubt by inspiring Hosea to write verse ten in chapter twelve.

Hosea 12 (NASB)

10 I have also spoken to the prophets,
And I gave numerous visions,
And through the prophets I gave parables.

From this verse we see that God does in fact use the lives of certain people to record an object lesson to reveal His heart and show us how He feels.

The book begins with a command to Hosea from the LORD;

Hosea 1
2 When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD."
3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

Here God has instructed Hosea to take a “wife of harlotry” as an example of how He was being treated by the northern nation of Israel. Israel had been unfaithful to God. He had taken the nation as His bride, blessed her, heaped His love upon her and yet she still turned from God and thus the picture is given here. I believe that God not only chose the example of adultery because of the parallel of a marriage and the peoples relationship with God, but also to use the same example as a picture of the judgment that they deserved for committing spiritual adultery. Mosaic Law gives us a clear cut answer to the consequences to being found guilty of such an offence.

Leviticus 20
10' If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

God was letting the people know that they really deserved to be cut off completely even unto death. But fortunately as we continue reading the book of Hosea we see a different picture. He is not only a God of justice but also a God of Grace. Through chapters one and two we see the story of an unfaithful wife and the broken heart of her husband revealing to the reader the pain and unfailing love He has for His people. God’s Grace is clearly demonstrated in the beginning of chapter three where he tells Hosea to go and retrieve his wife in spite of her transgressions.

Hosea 3

1 Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by her husband, yet an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love raisin cakes."

Notice how God doesn’t just say to take her back, but to love her; to love her like she had never been an adulteress at all. That’s Grace.

God’s dealings with Israel were a revelation to mankind of His Grace. Even the Law when understood through the guidance of the Spirit was a gift of divine Grace. An excellent example of this can be seen in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 30:

6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
7 " The LORD your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you.


8"And you shall again obey the LORD, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.
9"Then the LORD your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers;
10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which)are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11"For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
14 " But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Other prophets in the Old Testament such as Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Joel, and list goes on, spoke of God’s Grace being the foundation of His dealings with Israel and all of mankind for that matter. Being a prophet of God, we would expect for Jonah to follow this same manner of thinking. It doesn’t take a biblical scholar to notice that this isn’t the view that Jonah kept.

God’s plan in the revelation of His Grace included Him pouring it out upon on one of the most wicked of people in history, the Assyrians who lived in the city of Nineveh. Jonah knew that the Lord was a “gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.” When Jonah heard from the Lord to go to Nineveh, he didn’t want any part of it. He knew that God would pour out his Grace on this undeserving people just as he had with the people of Israel. So, Jonah in his folly tries to run from the Lord by taking a ship to Tarshish, he was trying to get as far as he could from completing God’s plan in his life. He would rather face the wrath of God than be part of God blessing another people rather than his own. But God’s will proves to be greater than Jonah’s futile attempt to alter it around his own ideas of how God’s plan should unfold. Jonah blew it and ended up in the sea without hope of saving himself. Fortunately God happens to be a God of Grace and Jonah is saved by the unlikely event of being swallowed by a fish and vomited out on the shore.

God gave Jonah a second chance, but some will say that he was a special case. Actually he isn’t, it seems that Grace is a constant theme in the bible, think about Abraham who denied that Sarah was his wife and watched her be taken into a harem, not once but twice. What about Moses who murdered a man and buried him in the desert? And we can’t forget about David who committed adultery then murdered the husband in order to cover his iniquity. Yes, Jonah joins the rest of all of God’s children who have been given countless chances by His Grace and eternal love.

Chapter three of the book of Jonah begins with the word of the Lord coming to him a second time with a message to do what he was told the first time; to go and cry against Nineveh for the Lord. So Jonah reluctantly does as he is told and gives a simple message of, “Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” Then the scripture records a miracle that simply blows Jonah away, this simple sermon of only eight words causes the entire city of Nineveh to repent and turn from their wicked ways and God relented judgment. One would think that his demonstration of the limitless nature of God’s Grace would bring great joy to Jonah, yet this isn’t the case with Jonah.

Jonah 4

1 But it greatly displeased Jonah and he became angry.
2 He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.
3 "Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for death is better to me than life."
Jonah was well versed in the scripture of his time here we see him repeating a revelation of the nature of God that was written by Moses in his second book;

Exodus 34
6 Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;
7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

Even after the Grace God had just recently shown him, his heart is hardened toward people that he had decided were beyond the point of no return. From the text it seems that Jonah had delivered the message of God’s judgment and had not included their opportunity for repentance. He didn’t understand that we’re all beyond that point without God’s plan of redemption that is the ultimate example of Grace. At this point Jonah has just missed the mark a second time instead of rejoicing in God’s will he decides that his own will in more important. Yet as Jonah is showing his defiance against the almighty God by refusing to accept God’s plan and choosing to believe that God would change His own will for Jonah’s.

Jonah 4
4 The LORD said, "Do you have good reason to be angry?"
5 Then Jonah went out from the city and sat east of it. There he made a shelter for himself and sat under it in the shade until he could see what would happen in the city.

Here God chooses to do something unexpected; he blesses Jonah by causing a plant to grow in an un-natural way in order to relieve Jonah from his depression. Jonah is more than just pleased with the plant; the scripture records him as being “extremely happy” about the plant. The contrast of his attitude for the plant versus the people of Nineveh exhibits the self righteousness of Jonah’s heart. But to teach Jonah a lesson he caused a worm to destroy the plant and sent harsh weather to make Jonah uncomfortable. It didn’t take long for Jonah to blow it yet a third time. Jonah becomes so angry with the Lord that he claims that “Death is better to me than life.” Jonah‘s attitude is that he would rather die than not get his way.


At first glance it would seem that Jonah main problem is selfishness and the preoccupation with his own comfort. But I believe that the underlying message here is that Jonah was angry about God’s Grace. He didn’t want God to show his Grace to the Ninevites yet was elated that God had been gracious to him with the shade of the plant that he didn’t deserve and most definitely didn’t earn. It was a free gift that God had every right to give or take away. Jonah didn’t just want God’s blessing, he expected it. He wanted the blessings that are of Grace, but he didn’t want to accept what Grace is. He wanted the benefits and blessings of God as one who had earned or deserved them rather than as an unrighteous sinner who God choose to bless. I believe this loathing of Grace is really what was bothering Jonah. He had to admit that God’s dealings and the repentance of the Ninevites was Grace. He had to admit that Grace is unmerited favor, it’s the unconditional love of a Holy God poured out on an undeserving people. Grace humbles and indicates the unrighteousness of the recipient no matter who he or she is. Jonah thought that only his people were worthy of God’s blessings and was angered by God showing his Grace upon a people that he considered unworthy. By God choosing to be gracious with the Ninevites it forces Jonah to have to re-think the basis of what God pours out his favor. With the Ninevites it clearly wasn’t worth.



In spite of the obstinence of this foolish man, we see how mildly God reproves him with a simple, “Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?” Yet Jonah is still defiant in his tone as he replies with, “I have good reason to be angry, even to death.” At this point the only reason Jonah isn’t a grease spot burnt next to the dead plant is the Grace of God. God’s Grace towards Jonah has been a major theme throughout the entire book. Then God responds to Jonah:

10 Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.
11 "Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"

It seems that Jonah made the mistake that always comes before a fall; pride. Instead of trusting God and being content with God’s will, he was angry with God about things not going as he thought they should. Jonah has surly come to realize something by this point; his honor was on the line. By leaving out the option of Grace in his message (which many biblical scholars agree was the case) Jonah had in effect become a false prophet. He prophesied that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days, period. Jonah was probably relying on experiences that he had seen and heard about with his own Jewish people who had not repented and hated to be reformed; certainly it was pointless to even mention the option of repentance to the Ninevites who had a reputation for their evil ways and not to mention, Gentiles.

Yet by the very thing that Jonah left out, the Ninevites were saved. There is no limit to God’s Grace and what Jonah didn’t realize at the time is that God knew is heart, he knew that Jonah wanted to see the Ninevites burn and that he would leave Grace out of his message. The fact that the entire city of and estimated 600,000 people repented and turn from their wicked ways was nothing short of the greatest miracle in the book of Jonah (there are recorded cases of people being swallowed by fish and living to tell the tale but an entire city repenting hasn’t been recorded since). Add that Jonah purposely left out a message of repentance and the only explanation left to consider is the Grace of God. I believe that repentance of the entire city of Nineveh is an object lesson to prove the point of God’s sovereign Grace; that even the ability to believe or even repent is a gift of God’s Grace.
We see the other side of the coin in the New Testament as God explains through Paul the questions that the Gentile Christians had concerning the Jewish people and God’s sovereign plan.

Romans 11
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6 But if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise Grace is no longer Grace.
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
8 just as it is written,
" GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."

As we see expressed here, God’s Grace is not based on debt. It's God's sovereign will to choose whoever He wants to bestow His free gift upon. Not because one is smart enough to discern what to and not to believe, not because one chooses to come, but because God was gracious to choose. Jonah had a hard time understanding the free gift of God’s Grace, even though this free gift had apparently been given to him.
We shouldn’t be too hard on Jonah. We’ve all been a Jonah at one time or another; God’s Grace is impossible to fully understand in our current fallen states. We have the infallible word of God comprised of 66 books that gives countless examples of God’s Grace from cover to cover and we still have a hard time with it. The key is to have faith that God’s word is true and that He will see you through it. The mere understanding that it’s “Him” and not “I” that saves is in itself a gift from God; understanding that He saved you. Salvation is 100% God’s sovereign will. God gives who He chooses “ears to hear” and then we are able to receive the gift of salvation through the sovereign will of God’s Grace. Apparently it takes extreme examples like a God fearing prophet being told by God Himself to marry and love a prostitute and an entire city of Assyrian sinners to repent and turn to God to drive the message home.

[psholtz]

John wrote: Quote: Ok I guess I can see that. Still, gouging an eye seems a little more strict than turning the other cheek (or eye respectively).

Of course. We deserve to have our eye gouged out...that would be true justice
I don't believe that.

The body is a gift from God.. Treat it w/ care..

[wormwood]

Quote: That not correct. God didn't change His mind about Lot. God was allowing Abraham to do the right thing. And you apparently haven't read the book of Jonah. Jonah doesn't speak up to save Nineveh. Jonah runs as far away as he can from Nineveh because he knows that God is compassionate and is going to save them. After Jonah finally goes to Nineveh...ah heck...I wrote a paper on it...why don't you read it. I have read the book of Jonah, and it is shorter than your paper about it :lol: . I admitted that there were instances of compassion. What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion. Was it turning the other cheek that turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt? The random things in Leviticus (and other books) that warrant a stoning, are those stones of forgiveness? Or stones of infinite love? :lol:

[John]

Quote: What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion.


Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels. It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil)....so YES...the deluge was an act of compassion.


In fact...if you will stop and actually see.....every time that God personally steps in and does something like wiping a group of people out...its because they are a threat to the birth of Messiah and the redemptive plan of Salvation. Open your eyes and see, man.

[MJB]

John wrote: Quote: What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion.


Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels.

Come again?

[TheTME]

John wrote: Quote: What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion.


Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels. It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil)....so YES...the deluge was an act of compassion.


Oh wow, the christian mythology really gets on my nerves. How could you even start believe this stuff?

[Charlie Man]

Yeah, I'm just going to say...

...

Anyhow, I would argue that Christ's birth and death did indeed change god. Have you read Job?

[wormwood]

Quote: Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels Yes, except for "Noah" and his family (or much of his community according to older accounts). I don't think it was just the fallen ones, but most accounts agree on the point that most of the human genetics were tainted from interbreeding with these other beings. I have never heard of fossil evidence to back this point up, but it is certainly possible on some level or another.

Quote: It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil) Is there anything that suggests this? Wouldn't God have foreseen this coming and not condemned us both (human and "others") to roam the same planet if compassion was his main attribute? I'll finish this thought later...

[John]

TheTME wrote: John wrote: Quote: What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion.


Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels. It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil)....so YES...the deluge was an act of compassion.


Oh wow, the christian mythology really gets on my nerves. How could you even start believe this stuff?

Read Genesis 6 in the Hebrew Old Testament.

[eynon]

wormwood wrote: Quote: Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels Yes, except for "Noah" and his family (or much of his community according to older accounts). I don't think it was just the fallen ones, but most accounts agree on the point that most of the human genetics were tainted from interbreeding with these other beings. I have never heard of fossil evidence to back this point up, but it is certainly possible on some level or another.

Quote: It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil) Is there anything that suggests this? Wouldn't God have foreseen this coming and not condemned us both (human and "others") to roam the same planet if compassion was his main attribute? I'll finish this thought later...

or..........G-d was just ending the last ice age, in which case the flood WAS an act of compassion.......ice is cold.

[TheTME]

John wrote: TheTME wrote: John wrote: Quote: What about the deluge? everyone but Noah and his family are killed. Whatever the reason, it was still not an act of compassion.


Mankind's genetic code seems to have been completely corrupted by interbreeding with fallen Angels. It was an attempt by "Satan" to stop the Messiah from being born as was prophesied....if mankind's bloodline was corrupted with Angelic DNA...then the plan of the Messiah redeeming mankind would be thwarted; basically mean all of mankind would go to Hell (Besides the fact that the Nephilim were completely twisted and evil)....so YES...the deluge was an act of compassion.


Oh wow, the christian mythology really gets on my nerves. How could you even start believe this stuff?

Read Genesis 6 in the Hebrew Old Testament.

I have, I guess you read it as the son of god is a title shared with angels? Also, they aren't condemed, it says the product were men that were famous, nothing of some evil cross bed mutant tainting humans.