Political Crossfire Forums

[DSwain]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5251346.stm

Well, Britain's top Asian police officer seem to think so. I would agree with DAC Ghaffur up to a point. To win any terror war, you need good intelligence - random stop and search isn't particularly effective. You get good intelligence by convincing the 'target' community that your fight is equally their fight. However I really do not accept the allegation of institutional Islamophobia nor of institutional racism.

[MoscowMatt]

DSwain wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5251346.stm

Well, Britain's top Asian police officer seem to think so. I would agree with DAC Ghaffur up to a point. To win any terror war, you need good intelligence - random stop and search isn't particularly effective. You get good intelligence by convincing the 'target' community that your fight is equally their fight. However I really do not accept the allegation of institutional Islamophobia nor of institutional racism.

Regarding the stop and search, they seem to think Muslims are picked on! Well you've got limited resources so it's a waste of time targeting ethnic groups who aren't a threat just to keep Muslims happy.

I'm a tolerant person when it comes to different ethnic groups but I must asmit I am fast tiring of them. Maybe I'm wrong here but sometimes it comes across that they feel they deserve some special treatment.

I've lived in an Islamic country and if you didn't like the way things were run you were politely told when the next flight home was. It's time we did the same!!

[antonio62]

I don't mean to sound cynical but I think the anti terror laws are just there to make us think they're a bigger threat than they really are.

[MoscowMatt]

antonio62 wrote: I don't mean to sound cynical but I think the anti terror laws are just there to make us think they're a bigger threat than they really are.

The anti terror laws are there to try and protect us. However the likes of Al'Qaeda are undertaking a very effective mis-information campaign resulting in innocent people being raided with the result that it undermines our faith in the security service and this in turn curbs the powers they can use to combat the threat as we don't believe them.

The attitude of many shows we are losing this war on terror.

[Ssushi]

The list of names of the arrested attackers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4782343.stm

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
ALI, Cossor
ALI, Shazad, Khuram
HUSSAIN, Nabeel
HUSSAIN, Tanvir
HUSSAIN, Umair
ISLAM, Umar
Smith, Bob
KAYANI, Waseem
KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
KHATIB, Osman, Adam
PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
RAUF, Tayib
SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
SARWAR, Assad
SAVANT, Ibrahim
TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
ZAMAN, Waheed

If you used some form of advanced analysis tool to determine the types of people to stop and search, they're probably going to have names similar to this list....

Maybe someone should point out to the "Top Asian Police Officer" that there's a staggering fecking trend with that list :roll:

Also, the mere term "Top Asian Police Officer" really pisses me off! Whoever it is, is a BRITISH police officer. Not an Asian one.

[antonio62]

MoscowMatt wrote: antonio62 wrote: I don't mean to sound cynical but I think the anti terror laws are just there to make us think they're a bigger threat than they really are.

The anti terror laws are there to try and protect us. However the likes of Al'Qaeda are undertaking a very effective mis-information campaign resulting in innocent people being raided with the result that it undermines our faith in the security service and this in turn curbs the powers they can use to combat the threat as we don't believe them.

The attitude of many shows we are losing this war on terror.

We are loosing it because the terrorists are forcing us to give up our traditional values to face them which is totally unnecessary. The government is trying to take your rights by playing on your fears. A certain Austrian madman did the same. Only difference is he did it quicker.

[DSwain]

Ssushi wrote: The list of names of the arrested attackers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4782343.stm

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
ALI, Cossor
ALI, Shazad, Khuram
HUSSAIN, Nabeel
HUSSAIN, Tanvir
HUSSAIN, Umair
ISLAM, Umar
Smith, Bob
KAYANI, Waseem
KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
KHATIB, Osman, Adam
PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
RAUF, Tayib
SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
SARWAR, Assad
SAVANT, Ibrahim
TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
ZAMAN, Waheed

If you used some form of advanced analysis tool to determine the types of people to stop and search, they're probably going to have names similar to this list....

Maybe someone should point out to the "Top Asian Police Officer" that there's a staggering fecking trend with that list :roll:

Also, the mere term "Top Asian Police Officer" really pisses me off! Whoever it is, is a BRITISH police officer. Not an Asian one.


Well he himself describes himself as a "minorities" officer in his speech and, as he is from the South Asian community, I don't think it's unfair to call him 'Britain's top Asian officer', particularly in relation to this story.

[Ssushi]

DSwain wrote: Ssushi wrote: The list of names of the arrested attackers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4782343.stm

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
ALI, Cossor
ALI, Shazad, Khuram
HUSSAIN, Nabeel
HUSSAIN, Tanvir
HUSSAIN, Umair
ISLAM, Umar
Smith, Bob
KAYANI, Waseem
KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
KHATIB, Osman, Adam
PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
RAUF, Tayib
SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
SARWAR, Assad
SAVANT, Ibrahim
TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
ZAMAN, Waheed

If you used some form of advanced analysis tool to determine the types of people to stop and search, they're probably going to have names similar to this list....

Maybe someone should point out to the "Top Asian Police Officer" that there's a staggering fecking trend with that list :roll:

Also, the mere term "Top Asian Police Officer" really pisses me off! Whoever it is, is a BRITISH police officer. Not an Asian one.


Well he himself describes himself as a "minorities" officer in his speech and, as he is from the South Asian community, I don't think it's unfair to call him 'Britain's top Asian officer', particularly in relation to this story.

I'm just fed up of minority groups popping up all over the country - I think we benefit from immigration and are obligated to assist with immigrants but all talk of 'black communities' and 'muslim communities' is just crap! They should consider themselves part of the British community and end it there.... Then perhaps we can have less trouble in the country...

[DSwain]

Ssushi wrote: DSwain wrote: Ssushi wrote: The list of names of the arrested attackers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4782343.stm

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
ALI, Cossor
ALI, Shazad, Khuram
HUSSAIN, Nabeel
HUSSAIN, Tanvir
HUSSAIN, Umair
ISLAM, Umar
Smith, Bob
KAYANI, Waseem
KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
KHATIB, Osman, Adam
PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
RAUF, Tayib
SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
SARWAR, Assad
SAVANT, Ibrahim
TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
ZAMAN, Waheed

If you used some form of advanced analysis tool to determine the types of people to stop and search, they're probably going to have names similar to this list....

Maybe someone should point out to the "Top Asian Police Officer" that there's a staggering fecking trend with that list :roll:

Also, the mere term "Top Asian Police Officer" really pisses me off! Whoever it is, is a BRITISH police officer. Not an Asian one.


Well he himself describes himself as a "minorities" officer in his speech and, as he is from the South Asian community, I don't think it's unfair to call him 'Britain's top Asian officer', particularly in relation to this story.

I'm just fed up of minority groups popping up all over the country - I think we benefit from immigration and are obligated to assist with immigrants but all talk of 'black communities' and 'muslim communities' is just crap! They should consider themselves part of the British community and end it there.... Then perhaps we can have less trouble in the country...

That attitude is part of the problem. People are different, you can't wish that away. If you allow a system of immigration then concurrent with that must be one that recognises that immigrants and their progeny will have multiple identities. The challenge is make sure that their nationality comes first. Forcing different communities to discard their own identities is guaranteed to antagonise them. I don't agree with multiculturalism, the idea that all cultures within the country are equal. I would prefer a system of 'monoculturalism plus' - that recognises that British (or English/Welsh/Scots/Irish) should be pre-eminent while other cultures have a right to exist alongside it and have contributions to make.

[Hotdog]

Having an immigration policy which is ideologically opposed to any kind of discrimination to filter out incompatible racial types, cultures, and religions is inevitably going to end up creating for one's society a whole set of indissoluble tribal divisions in which loyalty and identity with one's ethnic group takes priority.

'British' - my arse. Even when they're born in the UK they're not 'British' in anything but name.

[bob.appleyard]

MoscowMatt wrote: Regarding the stop and search, they seem to think Muslims are picked on! Well you've got limited resources so it's a waste of time targeting ethnic groups who aren't a threat just to keep Muslims happy.

Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity.

[bob.appleyard]

Watch white Muslims get roped in for future attacks...

[Hotdog]

If it's 'only a few' amongst the Muslim community who are sympathetic with Islamic global terrorism then why pray tell are our politicians - yours in the UK and ours in Australia - so reluctant to be seen to 'talk tough' against home-grown terrorism lest this 'offend' the sensitivities of the so-called 'moderate Muslims'?

Both in the UK and in Australia following upon the announcement of any kind of new initiatives and laws to combat militant Islam within the homeland - there has been the inevitable outcries of 'victimhood' rage from Muslim leaders.

It was the Middle Eastern muslim immigrants who brought with them the culture for carrying knives and guns. They passed this 'tradition' onto their Australian-born sons towards the effect that eventually laws were introduced into our parliament which allowed for the spot-checks by police of any youths they suspected might be carrying a concealed weapon.

Naturally enough it was youths of 'Middle Eastern appearance' who were the principle targets of random searches by the police - who soon reaped a huge harvest of knives and knuckle-dusters.

But! (You guessed it... ) This 'racial-profiling' did not meet with the approval of Australia's so-called 'moderate Muslim' community - and therefore this enabling law was soon retracted.

'Moderate' Muslims - my arse. They look after their own - right or wrong. Here we witnessed the leaders of the Muslim community demanding of the government that they repeal a law which was successfully removing concealed weapons from youths on the streets.

It's the first thing I would scrap - 'ethnic community' lobbyists blackmailing the government with their community's voting power.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Ssushi wrote: I'm just fed up of minority groups popping up all over the country - I think we benefit from immigration and are obligated to assist with immigrants but all talk of 'black communities' and 'muslim communities' is just crap! They should consider themselves part of the British community and end it there.... Then perhaps we can have less trouble in the country...

This mentality always amuses me. I have been in many situations when someone asks, "so, where are you from?" and he/she answers, "I am from England" .... "er ... no, where are you really from?" "ummm ... I am from Mars".

So on the one hand, there is always those who want these people to think of themselves as British, but then at the same time, they are treated as outsiders in much of the social discourse.

[Hotdog]

Ssushi... Quote: I'm just fed up of minority groups popping up all over the country - I think we benefit from immigration and are obligated to assist with immigrants but all talk of 'black communities' and 'muslim communities' is just crap! They should consider themselves part of the British community and end it there.... Then perhaps we can have less trouble in the country...

Excellent post, Ssushi! Go to the top of the class!

One should make a distinction between 'immigration' and 'colonisation' - something which unfortunately the politicians of both Australia and the UK have difficulty understanding.