Political Crossfire Forums

[JayDubya]

Selfish_Meme wrote: JayDubya wrote: Said rights are argued to be unalienable and inherent to all human beings. Governments don't create these rights, governments are supposed to respect their existence and protect them - and when they don't, those governments need to be overthrown.

That is an American document and Americans have no right to apply it to anyone else in the world. No one else signed it or agreed with it.

Uhhh, okay. The person I was talking to is American, however, and was specifically talking about things written in the DoI.

[Selfish_Meme]

JayDubya wrote: Selfish_Meme wrote: JayDubya wrote: Said rights are argued to be unalienable and inherent to all human beings. Governments don't create these rights, governments are supposed to respect their existence and protect them - and when they don't, those governments need to be overthrown.

That is an American document and Americans have no right to apply it to anyone else in the world. No one else signed it or agreed with it.

Uhhh, okay. The person I was talking to is American, however, and was specifically talking about things written in the DoI.
You said Governments in the plural sense.

[JayDubya]

Well, this is purely academic / semantics, isn't it?

Jefferson's belief was that human beings (every Homo sapiens on Earth, not just American colonials) have unalienable rights. These rights are not given to them by their government - individuals innately possess them. The government cannot grant rights, they can only take them away.

If any government on the planet wantonly disrespects the rights of the individual and fails to protect said rights, then that government should be overthrown. The obvious subtext is, of course, by its own citizenry.

This ideology is quite far from being solely an American one.

* * *

At any rate, this is pretty much completely tangential to the issue of abortion. From my perspective, as relates to abortion, I think that a pregnant woman's developing young deserves every measure of these unalienable rights.

[The Comrade]

Bdwatkins wrote: I believe everyone is free to choose whether or not to have sex. If you women do not want babies, do not be sluts. Simple as that. If you men do not want to be fathers, learn to control your urges. In those regards I am pro-choice. But when it comes to abortion, I am firmly pro-life. Abortion is barbaric and immoral, and should be 100% illegal. Aborionists should be pushed through a kangaroo court and promptly executed. I have no sympathy whatsoever for these wackos. :evil:

http://abortionviolence.com/INDEX.HTM

Women who've had abortions should be sterilized. I see no reason why they should be permitted to reproduce.


it takes one time to screw up. that doesn't make someone a sl**.

is a married woman a sl** if her husband gets her pregnant?



Quote: Abortion is barbaric and immoral



Quote: Aborionists should be pushed through a kangaroo court and promptly executed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH


so removing a lump of cells with no cognitive ability is barbaric and immoral but executing people with no real trial isn't?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[levin893]

Bdwatkins wrote: I believe everyone is free to choose whether or not to have sex. If you women do not want babies, do not be sluts. Simple as that. If you men do not want to be fathers, learn to control your urges. In those regards I am pro-choice. But when it comes to abortion, I am firmly pro-life. Abortion is barbaric and immoral, and should be 100% illegal. Aborionists should be pushed through a kangaroo court and promptly executed. I have no sympathy whatsoever for these wackos. :evil:

http://abortionviolence.com/INDEX.HTM

Women who've had abortions should be sterilized. I see no reason why they should be permitted to reproduce.

If that's your opinion so be it, but the fact that you would want these people executed is completely out of line. Since no one can define the point where life begins, you have no claim that they're doing anything wrong. Also keep in mind, these are people. They aren't sluts or sinful men, they are honest, hardworking Americans that could well be your neighbors. They make mistakes, everyone does. You act like an abortion is so simple. You fail to recognize abortions leave families psychologically unstable and take years to get over for both members. I'm not saying you can't feel abortion is wrong. But saying these people are worth killing is what tears America apart.

United we stand, remember?

[Selfish_Meme]

JayDubya wrote: Well, this is purely academic / semantics, isn't it?

Jefferson's belief was that human beings (every Homo sapiens on Earth, not just American colonials) have unalienable rights. These rights are not given to them by their government - individuals innately possess them. The government cannot grant rights, they can only take them away.

If any government on the planet wantonly disrespects the rights of the individual and fails to protect said rights, then that government should be overthrown. The obvious subtext is, of course, by its own citizenry.

This ideology is quite far from being solely an American one.

* * *

At any rate, this is pretty much completely tangential to the issue of abortion. From my perspective, as relates to abortion, I think that a pregnant woman's developing young deserves every measure of these unalienable rights.
Unalienable right to life given in the DoI was taken away in the Constitution. It is not even clear what they meant by life, I'm sure if you asked them it would involve a god given spirit, not just biological life and I don't think they could envisage the meanings developed from those documents.