Political Crossfire Forums

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

All I ask is that you do me the favor of sparing me from the psuedo-intellectual pipe chewing - dope smoking, staring at the stars and trying to be deep bulls**t college kid answer (I was a college kid once.. I know.. hard to fathom...) here and just shoot from the hip on this one.

Do you think that everything that schools teach children is a big fat lie? Come on now... I'm sure there are some things that are taught that are vague, not complete, etc... but I want to know just how many people out here in cyber land think that our schools and teachers have nothing better to do than make up EVERYTHING that they have taught us and continue to teach our children.

Is it all a big fat lie in your opinion and if you said YES... then why.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 16297 Location: Prague

Um, no, unless one thinks the principles of subjects like math are a lie.

There is, however, propagandizing. There is a severe and noticeable neglect of key facts in classes like history, where, for example, the offenses of the West against innocents are trivialized or ignored. It often does not get mentioned until university.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: All I ask is that you do me the favor of sparing me from the psuedo-intellectual pipe chewing - dope smoking, staring at the stars and trying to be deep bulls**t college kid answer (I was a college kid once.. I know.. hard to fathom...) here and just shoot from the hip on this one.

Do you think that everything that schools teach children is a big fat lie? Come on now... I'm sure there are some things that are taught that are vague, not complete, etc... but I want to know just how many people out here in cyber land think that our schools and teachers have nothing better to do than make up EVERYTHING that they have taught us and continue to teach our children.

Is it all a big fat lie in your opinion and if you said YES... then why.
Not entirely, but I think a lot of it the truth is manipulated. The reason why is because it creates stability.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

Absolutely not. Even if a majority of things you were taught ended up being a lie, it doesn't mean that it can't spark questioning.

mgwisni · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 73

There are obviously some things that we are taught when we are younger that are not entirely true, such as most of the concepts of Chemistry, but for the "most part" I'd say it's true or at least part of the truth.

knuckle-dragger · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 10

As someone still in high school, I can honestly say some of it is crap. There are a lot of facts that are indisputably true, and some that are vague, disputable, or ignored.

When I was in sixth grade they had the story of Jesus in the history book, and excused it by putting it in the Roman Empire chapter. I was amused by the fact that they managed to slip it into the curriculum. However, no histories of Islam were included at all, even up to my Junior year, which I most recently completed. Or any other religion except Christianity.

There are lots of facts in classes like the histories that are vague. It's easy to understand, because they want to give the basics and not take up too much time with minutiae.

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13037 Location: upstate NY

No, certainly mathamatics is almost an absolute. English, writing and comp are also near absolutes. Now if we get into history... I think there are now a lot of revisionist teachers out there. definetly certain dates cannot be BS'd, but the theory about how we got from point A. to point B. that is where I think we are unfortunately seeing political correctness and in some cases in certain schools where there is extreme liberalism an entire emphasis directed away from the reality of what occured and why it did.

Often times we see this in certain classes that are not specifically the three R's. One such class would be economics. I think we are seeing much more of this on the college level where almost everything that is not a science and can be theorized has become a teachers discretion based on their belief. That has always been somewhat the case in college but now we are unfortunately allowing far too much leeway with college professors who have radical views.

Azuresidus · Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 183 Location: Somewhere Else.

Is everything we are taught a lie?

Science: No. The only thing in science class that's a "lie" is ID, and fortunately it isn't prevalent yet.

Math: Definitely not.

English: Not all of it. The interpretations of the works of others can be very subjective though, so some of it is likely bs.

History: Made up? Not completely. Spun to support a particular point of view? Definitely.

Really, how much bs there is depends on the class. Those are my opinions of the "core curriculum" classes. You could go through it with every class you wanted, but the simple answer it that it really depends on how subjective the subject and it's material are to begin with. Math, science, and computer classes are not all that subjective at all, and there is little room to make sh*t up. Social studies and english classes are more open to interpretation and opinion, so there is more room for teachers to influence the material they are teaching. I'm not saying every teacher out there has an agenda and is rewriting history or anything, but some influence by both teachers and society as a whole is unavoidable in classes like that.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8939

Young minds are impressionable...

Teacher: "2 +3 = Chair"....

"Oh my God, they're writing it down!"

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

With regards to history, look at who wrote history...

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8939

Ek0nomik wrote: With regards to history, look at who wrote history...

History is always recorded by the victor.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 7642 Location: Montana

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Do you think that everything that schools teach children is a big fat lie? Come on now... I'm sure there are some things that are taught that are vague, not complete, etc... but I want to know just how many people out here in cyber land think that our schools and teachers have nothing better to do than make up EVERYTHING that they have taught us and continue to teach our children.

Is it all a big fat lie in your opinion and if you said YES... then why.

You know I've heard the same types of opinions, the schools have an agenda, they are there to promote liberal ideals etc., etc. etc.

BUT I have never witnessed this first hand as either a student nor as a parent who has kids in school.

I will add, I like to discuss with my kids what they are covering in history and goverment classes and give them my own cynical take on it. When I get on a roll my daughter sighs and says you sound just like (insert her political/history teacher's name), so the school can't be all bad. :lol:

George W Bush · Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject:

in some cases.

like when I pledged allegiance to a flag, it became meaningless after awhile. and i resented the state for MAKING us pledge our allegience. Demanding we remain loyal to a country we are free to disagree with.

So, the pledge is BS.

My kid will have the option of pledging or not. They will not be forced to conform to such collectivist idealogy.

ideal · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 213 Location: Wyoming

When I was in school, social sciences were always presented with an America friendly slant. No wartime profit, always went after the bad guy as soon as they appeared, the evil Confederacy were the only ones who supported slavery(and the Union only went to war to stop slavery), natives were killed by individuals acting on their own accord, other such propaganda. Around age sixteen, I became more intellectual, started reading more, and realized that I had been lied to about most of America's actions. Still the greatest country on the planet, but (to paraphrase a line from a tv show) 'everybody's one kind of son of a b**** or another.'

patrickt · Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 1779 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico

"English, writing and comp are also near absolutes." I thought that until my son's English teacher told him that spelling, grammar, and punctuation weren't important. What was really important was what he had to say.

While the curriculum is silly at times I have more problem with the "teaching" that is outside the curriculum. When my children asked me if it were true that communism was a better system than capitalism--they were in junior high--I said it wasn't. When my son asked me if it were true that the Holocaust never happened I said it wasn't. On that one I complained to the school and got a lovely lecture on academic freedom. And both my kids asked me how much longer the earth would survive. They both expected mankind to cease to exist within their lifetime.

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

I think there is a problem, as a young man in school above thinks there are absolutes in science.

There is a lot of stuff on the curriculum that is our best effort at distilling a few thousands years and hundreds of millions knowledge into a few short years. If you look for individual fault you will find it, it's systemic faults that should be examined by society.

skel1977 · Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Posts: 46

Um, what exactly are we talking about here? A worldwide conspiracy to uneducate the children? Im not sure what exactly you are talking about...you said everything but im assuming you are talking about history.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

Kumar wrote: Um, no, unless one thinks the principles of subjects like math are a lie.

There is, however, propagandizing. There is a severe and noticeable neglect of key facts in classes like history, where, for example, the offenses of the West against innocents are trivialized or ignored. It often does not get mentioned until university.

Interesting, that most conservatives I know say the opposite. That our kids are being taught too much about how horrendous our nation is rather than how good it is.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

ideal wrote: When I was in school, social sciences were always presented with an America friendly slant. No wartime profit, always went after the bad guy as soon as they appeared, the evil Confederacy were the only ones who supported slavery(and the Union only went to war to stop slavery), natives were killed by individuals acting on their own accord, other such propaganda. Around age sixteen, I became more intellectual, started reading more, and realized that I had been lied to about most of America's actions. Still the greatest country on the planet, but (to paraphrase a line from a tv show) 'everybody's one kind of son of a b**** or another.'

Well, at least in the elementary school years, I agree. Kids should be taught in an America friendly way. We are in America after all, and to teach kids that we are a horrible country is the last message that they need to hear. Agreed, that in middle school, a more realistic version should be taught, but it is plain stupid to the country for our public elementary schools to slam America. Despite our imperfections, we are a great country that should be admired. At least we aren't executing people for allowing goats to walk around without a diaper, or for having "suggestive" vegetables in our supermarkets.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

patrickt wrote: "English, writing and comp are also near absolutes." I thought that until my son's English teacher told him that spelling, grammar, and punctuation weren't important. What was really important was what he had to say.

At one stage in the process, this is correct. A "rough" draft needn't worry with those niceties. However, that is only the first draft. There should be several drafts before being handed in for a grade.

patrickt wrote: While the curriculum is silly at times I have more problem with the "teaching" that is outside the curriculum. When my children asked me if it were true that communism was a better system than capitalism--they were in junior high--I said it wasn't. When my son asked me if it were true that the Holocaust never happened I said it wasn't. On that one I complained to the school and got a lovely lecture on academic freedom. And both my kids asked me how much longer the earth would survive. They both expected mankind to cease to exist within their lifetime.

Academic freedom for junior high teachers is an absurd concept.