Political Crossfire Forums

[LostSoul3412]

Which is more important, to be free, or to be fair?

Equality in opportunity, or equality in result?

[Underground Sound]

you must be free to be fair

[LostSoul3412]

Perhaps, but let me reword the question:

Is it better to have the freedom to succeed, or fail; or is it better to be guaranteed mediocrity?

[Aqualung]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Which is more important, to be free, or to be fair?

Equality in opportunity, or equality in result?
To be free is the only way to be fair.

Equality is not fair.

[Anarko-Kapitalizt]

In order to have equality and fairness you must force it upon people.

[LostSoul3412]

((Edit: Added a poll so a tally can be kept.))

[TreizeEnder]

Underground Sound wrote: you must be free to be fair

You must be fair to earn freedom.

[Aqualung]

TreizeEnder wrote: Underground Sound wrote: you must be free to be fair

You must be fair to earn freedom.
Freedom is not something to be earned.

[LostSoul3412]

TreizeEnder wrote: You must be fair to earn freedom.

Freedom is a right, not a privilege.

[Kindred]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Which is more important, to be free, or to be fair?

Equality in opportunity, or equality in result?

Fasle dichotomy. Fairness or part of a just society, as is freedom.

[LostSoul3412]

Kindred wrote: Fasle dichotomy. Fairness or part of a just society, as is freedom.

Of course, but consider this question:

Is it better to have the freedom to succeed, or fail; or is it better to be guaranteed mediocrity?

[Kindred]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Kindred wrote: Fasle dichotomy. Fairness or part of a just society, as is freedom.

Of course, but consider this question:

Is it better to have the freedom to succeed, or fail; or is it better to be guaranteed mediocrity?

It is better to have freedom to succeed and fail, and have the guarantee of surviving should failure occur. There is no reason why both can't exist, and there are many reasons why they should both accompany each other.

[[Bible]Monkey]

Kindred wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: Kindred wrote: Fasle dichotomy. Fairness or part of a just society, as is freedom.

Of course, but consider this question:

Is it better to have the freedom to succeed, or fail; or is it better to be guaranteed mediocrity?

It is better to have freedom to succeed and fail, and have the guarantee of surviving should failure occur. There is no reason why both can't exist, and there are many reasons why they should both accompany each other.

Good point. A guarantee of surviving a failure ( brought about by , say,somehow making a gross error while exercising your freedom) does not neccessarily have to include a guarantee of mediocrity.

Example.....hmmm ...how about 'Crop Insurance' . :-D

[TreizeEnder]

CrossEyedMary wrote: TreizeEnder wrote: Underground Sound wrote: you must be free to be fair

You must be fair to earn freedom.
Freedom is not something to be earned.

In a sense that is true. So few words do my thoughts little justice. To me, freedom in its essence is a right. Freedom as it is, is something to be earned; through the fair consideration of others, is the means to acquire this freedom today. I respect that. I, for one, would not want freedom to be bestowed upon a killer without it first being earned. Without fairness, our freedom is not free; hence the aforementioned.

[Aqualung]

TreizeEnder wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: TreizeEnder wrote: Underground Sound wrote: you must be free to be fair

You must be fair to earn freedom.
Freedom is not something to be earned.

In a sense that is true. So few words do my thoughts little justice. To me, freedom in its essence is a right. Freedom as it is, is something to be earned; through the fair consideration of others, is the means to acquire this freedom today. I respect that. I, for one, would not want freedom to be bestowed upon a killer without it first being earned. Without fairness, our freedom is not free; hence the aforementioned.
But is it really freedom if, in order to receive it, I must act in a certain way, and use it in a certain way? I don't think so.

[TreizeEnder]

CrossEyedMary wrote: TreizeEnder wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: TreizeEnder wrote: Underground Sound wrote: you must be free to be fair

You must be fair to earn freedom.
Freedom is not something to be earned.

In a sense that is true. So few words do my thoughts little justice. To me, freedom in its essence is a right. Freedom as it is, is something to be earned; through the fair consideration of others, is the means to acquire this freedom today. I respect that. I, for one, would not want freedom to be bestowed upon a killer without it first being earned. Without fairness, our freedom is not free; hence the aforementioned.
But is it really freedom if, in order to receive it, I must act in a certain way, and use it in a certain way? I don't think so.
But is it freedom when one can be suppressed without fair regard? Would you rather a system that works in the interest of everyone's well being, or a system that promotes anything? Also, it doesn't truly keep you from doing what you want; rather, fairness simply works to give insentive to those that don't comply within the interest of the populous. I feel that one can not truly exist without the other, but that fairness is more important as it aims to accommodate everyone.

[Ek0nomik]

Reminds me of the question: Is it better to be extremely famous, or to have millions of dollars?

With millions of dollars, you can buy fame.

[Azuresidus]

I honestly believe that this sort of freedom (to succeed or fail) is what brings about ambition, invention, and the drive to achieve something worthwhile. I think that it is the best thing for advancement of a society as whole and individual creativity. All that "guaranteed mediocrity" gets you is alot of mediocrity. I would hate to live that way.

[OneManWrites]

Fair is subjective, dependent upon your perspective. Declaring, legislating and enforcing any one vision of "fair" by definition destroys freedom and is therefore unfair to everyone.

[Free Thinkr]

I don't believe an inherently unfair system is compatible with freedom.