Political Crossfire Forums

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Nico wrote: as for waiting for a ceasefire first, it's straight foward logic. With a ceasefire in place, French or other troops don't have to contend with misconceptions of the locals or Israelis as to the state of the conflict. send them in early and you put them in the position of being meat in a sandwich, with either side potentially accusing them of biased behavior.
There is no loss to a straight ceasefire followed by international force coming in directly. if israel continued operations, or hezbollah for that matter, after they were deployed, then the excuses would fly for continued destruction and the whole effort would be wasted.

The whole resolution that is going to be passed by the UN has so much potential for actually backfiring. I really wonder whether this resolution can actually be implemented. It will only take one Israeli attack or a Hezbollah attack to have the whole situation turned upside down.

Gitana · Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:53 am Post subject:

Quote: Can you show me the linkage in Iraq oil profits please?
Also, there are 18 provinces in Iraq... most of which see little or no violence. Secure one city? Most are secured. Perhaps you aren't informed?

(Keeping this post short as it's veering off-topic)

Oil:

Quote: "Since the war, ExxonMobil has earned higher year-end profits than any company in world history, while Chevron has surpassed its own 126-year record two years running. Since the war, both companies have been importing more oil from Iraq to the U.S. than at virtually any point in U.S. history. Between 2003 and 2004, the value of U.S. imports of Iraqi oil increased by 86 percent. Oil company profits therefore owe a great deal to Bush administration policy and the myth of dramatically reduced supply from Iraq." -Antonia Juhasz, author of 'The Bush Agenda: Invading The World, One Economy At A Time', & visiting scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies - 01/31/06

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2004/0128oilprofit.htm
http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/12345news_crudedesigns.aspx
Also: Center For Public Integrity, Public Citizen's Energy Program, Oil Change International's 'Crude Design's: The Rip-off of Iraqi Oil Wealth'

Iraq security: We must have very different ideas of what 'security' means. Here's your governments July 24th release regarding new efforts to secure Baghdad:

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=July&x=20060724165025idybeekcm0.3906824

From Baghdad:

Dr Fa'aq Ameen, director of the health ministry’s Forensic Medicine Institute, regarding the Baghdad Mortuary:

Quote: “Our work is getting more difficult because more Iraqis are being brutally killed, requiring lengthy investigations and examinations that can take hours and sometimes days.”
An average of 70 civilians are killed in Baghdad every day, largely a result of the sectarian violence. Every month, the mortuary receives more than 1,500 bodies, not including the bodies of people killed in the north and south of the country.

-http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=53396&SelectRegion=Middle_East

I cannot in any way categorize that as secure. However, if I am truly uninformed, please enlighten me.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1644 Location: UK / Hungary

Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2255 Location: NY upstate

MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Wow really? THe word Foreign didnt give me that hint..... I know a lot about the French Foreign Legion... ALso its not a common trap... ITs not even a misconception wth are you talking about?..

The point is that the French use military force.

O ya forgot one other thing..

The French Foreign Legion IS French. Its controlled by the French government its just not made up of French men.

It actually is part of the French army since they tried to commit a Coup in the 50's

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8422 Location: Petah Tikva

France has troops deployed abroad in it's remaining colonial holdings as well as ex colonial holdings with a heavily reinforced 43rd Marine Infantry Battalion in the Ivory Coast doing active work. They have sent troops to Haiti as well.

The only active combat operations are the deployment of their special forces to Afghanistan I beleive their units are the 1st Marine Parachute Regiment, and 13th Parachute Regiment respectivly though I dont know the names for sure.

As for the French Foreign Legion it's a matter of opinion. Some view it as not French and a purely mercinary group as it has historically been and thus not a untilization of Frances own resources and people. Others view it simply as a crack division in the French Army that has in recent years lost the image of being a place where criminals could create a new life by joining.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

I would view the Brigade of Gurkhas to be very much part of the British Army - and damned good soldiers they are too - although most of the soldiery are citizens of Nepal. And throughout British forces you will find Commonwealth citizens. So, in this vein I would view the Legion to be a part of the French Army.

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2255 Location: NY upstate

superskippy wrote: France has troops deployed abroad in it's remaining colonial holdings as well as ex colonial holdings with a heavily reinforced 43rd Marine Infantry Battalion in the Ivory Coast doing active work. They have sent troops to Haiti as well.

The only active combat operations are the deployment of their special forces to Afghanistan I beleive their units are the 1st Marine Parachute Regiment, and 13th Parachute Regiment respectivly though I dont know the names for sure.

As for the French Foreign Legion it's a matter of opinion. Some view it as not French and a purely mercinary group as it has historically been and thus not a utilization of Frances own resources and people. Others view it simply as a crack division in the French Army that has in recent years lost the image of being a place where criminals could create a new life by joining.

How is it not the utilization of France? THrough out history it has done what France has said to a T.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Ellron wrote: superskippy wrote: France has troops deployed abroad in it's remaining colonial holdings as well as ex colonial holdings with a heavily reinforced 43rd Marine Infantry Battalion in the Ivory Coast doing active work. They have sent troops to Haiti as well.

The only active combat operations are the deployment of their special forces to Afghanistan I beleive their units are the 1st Marine Parachute Regiment, and 13th Parachute Regiment respectivly though I dont know the names for sure.

As for the French Foreign Legion it's a matter of opinion. Some view it as not French and a purely mercinary group as it has historically been and thus not a utilization of Frances own resources and people. Others view it simply as a crack division in the French Army that has in recent years lost the image of being a place where criminals could create a new life by joining.

How is it not the utilization of France? THrough out history it has done what France has said to a T.

I know what you're saying and you're pretty much correct IMO - although the Legion most definitely did not follow orders as the war of independence in Algeria shaped up for a French Civil War.

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2255 Location: NY upstate

DSwain wrote: Ellron wrote: superskippy wrote: France has troops deployed abroad in it's remaining colonial holdings as well as ex colonial holdings with a heavily reinforced 43rd Marine Infantry Battalion in the Ivory Coast doing active work. They have sent troops to Haiti as well.

The only active combat operations are the deployment of their special forces to Afghanistan I beleive their units are the 1st Marine Parachute Regiment, and 13th Parachute Regiment respectivly though I dont know the names for sure.

As for the French Foreign Legion it's a matter of opinion. Some view it as not French and a purely mercinary group as it has historically been and thus not a utilization of Frances own resources and people. Others view it simply as a crack division in the French Army that has in recent years lost the image of being a place where criminals could create a new life by joining.

How is it not the utilization of France? THrough out history it has done what France has said to a T.

I know what you're saying and you're pretty much correct IMO - although the Legion most definitely did not follow orders as the war of independence in Algeria shaped up for a French Civil War.

Ya trying to assasinate their president was a little off. :lol:

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Ellron wrote: DSwain wrote: Ellron wrote: superskippy wrote: France has troops deployed abroad in it's remaining colonial holdings as well as ex colonial holdings with a heavily reinforced 43rd Marine Infantry Battalion in the Ivory Coast doing active work. They have sent troops to Haiti as well.

The only active combat operations are the deployment of their special forces to Afghanistan I beleive their units are the 1st Marine Parachute Regiment, and 13th Parachute Regiment respectivly though I dont know the names for sure.

As for the French Foreign Legion it's a matter of opinion. Some view it as not French and a purely mercinary group as it has historically been and thus not a utilization of Frances own resources and people. Others view it simply as a crack division in the French Army that has in recent years lost the image of being a place where criminals could create a new life by joining.

How is it not the utilization of France? THrough out history it has done what France has said to a T.

I know what you're saying and you're pretty much correct IMO - although the Legion most definitely did not follow orders as the war of independence in Algeria shaped up for a French Civil War.

Ya trying to assasinate their president was a little off. :lol:

As was their marksmanship!

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1644 Location: UK / Hungary

Ellron wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Wow really? THe word Foreign didnt give me that hint..... I know a lot about the French Foreign Legion... ALso its not a common trap... ITs not even a misconception wth are you talking about?..

The point is that the French use military force.

O ya forgot one other thing..

The French Foreign Legion IS French. Its controlled by the French government its just not made up of French men.

It actually is part of the French army since they tried to commit a Coup in the 50's

Yes the French are using military force but using mercenaries (the legion) under their control! Not exactly the same as using their regular army is it?

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8422 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: How is it not the utilization of France? THrough out history it has done what France has said to a T.

First off I never said thats what I beleived I just presented a view.

Secondly the view stems from the fact that as a mercinary group of international soldiers it gets the stigma of being nothing more than a mercinary band for France to add to it's forces.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Wow really? THe word Foreign didnt give me that hint..... I know a lot about the French Foreign Legion... ALso its not a common trap... ITs not even a misconception wth are you talking about?..

The point is that the French use military force.

O ya forgot one other thing..

The French Foreign Legion IS French. Its controlled by the French government its just not made up of French men.

It actually is part of the French army since they tried to commit a Coup in the 50's

Yes the French are using military force but using mercenaries (the legion) under their control! Not exactly the same as using their regular army is it?

MM - the Legion is part of the French Army. Their ration strength is counted into the French Army; their kit and supplies are provided by the French Army; they are paid by the French Army; they are part of the Order of Battle for the French Army and are deployed on the orders of the French government. I don't know how much more of the French Army they can be?

As I said, I consider the Brigade of Gurkhas to be a part of the British Army and I didn't appreciate when elements of the Latin American press suggested Britain was deploying murdering mercenaries with kukris during the Falklands War!

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1644 Location: UK / Hungary

DSwain wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Wow really? THe word Foreign didnt give me that hint..... I know a lot about the French Foreign Legion... ALso its not a common trap... ITs not even a misconception wth are you talking about?..

The point is that the French use military force.

O ya forgot one other thing..

The French Foreign Legion IS French. Its controlled by the French government its just not made up of French men.

It actually is part of the French army since they tried to commit a Coup in the 50's

Yes the French are using military force but using mercenaries (the legion) under their control! Not exactly the same as using their regular army is it?

MM - the Legion is part of the French Army. Their ration strength is counted into the French Army; their kit and supplies are provided by the French Army; they are paid by the French Army; they are part of the Order of Battle for the French Army and are deployed on the orders of the French government. I don't know how much more of the French Army they can be?

As I said, I consider the Brigade of Gurkhas to be a part of the British Army and I didn't appreciate when elements of the Latin American press suggested Britain was deploying murdering mercenaries with kukris during the Falklands War!

Sorry you miss my point. What I'm getting at is that it's not actual Frenchmen out there getting their hands dirty. Granted they make up a percentage of the legion but the huge majority is made up of foreign nationals, yes they are part of the French army I am not contesting that issue!

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

MoscowMatt wrote: Sorry you miss my point. What I'm getting at is that it's not actual Frenchmen out there getting their hands dirty. Granted they make up a percentage of the legion but the huge majority is made up of foreign nationals, yes they are part of the French army I am not contesting that issue!

But MM, take a closer look at our army - you'll be surprised at how many foreign nationals are making up the numbers! One of the reasons behind the amalgamation of some of the Scottish regiments was that the Highlanders had a whole company made up of Fijians! You'll see Commonwealth citizens all over HM Forces - looks like some home grown Brits are not that keen on signing up!

Interesting article about it
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1871215,00.html

I have no problem with this at all - if someone signs up and does his job, good on him.

I will acknowledge that France can sometimes be readier to commit Legionnaires than other French infantrymen to harm's way.

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2255 Location: NY upstate

MoscowMatt wrote: DSwain wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Ellron wrote:

Also the idea that the French dont use military force is ridicilious.

Ever hear of the French Foreign Legion? Probably have at least 5 operations going on today.

:rotf:

You fall into a common trap. That is the French foreign legion is NOT French. They are a group of international mercenaries with soldiers drawn from many countries.

Wow really? THe word Foreign didnt give me that hint..... I know a lot about the French Foreign Legion... ALso its not a common trap... ITs not even a misconception wth are you talking about?..

The point is that the French use military force.

O ya forgot one other thing..

The French Foreign Legion IS French. Its controlled by the French government its just not made up of French men.

It actually is part of the French army since they tried to commit a Coup in the 50's

Yes the French are using military force but using mercenaries (the legion) under their control! Not exactly the same as using their regular army is it?

MM - the Legion is part of the French Army. Their ration strength is counted into the French Army; their kit and supplies are provided by the French Army; they are paid by the French Army; they are part of the Order of Battle for the French Army and are deployed on the orders of the French government. I don't know how much more of the French Army they can be?

As I said, I consider the Brigade of Gurkhas to be a part of the British Army and I didn't appreciate when elements of the Latin American press suggested Britain was deploying murdering mercenaries with kukris during the Falklands War!

Sorry you miss my point. What I'm getting at is that it's not actual Frenchmen out there getting their hands dirty. Granted they make up a percentage of the legion but the huge majority is made up of foreign nationals, yes they are part of the French army I am not contesting that issue!

Wrong.. NO french men makes a part of the legion.

The point is... YEs, the French will get their hands dirty just not with their French citizens.

Thus making your statement that France doesnt want to get into Lebanon because they dont want to use military force void.

mendosan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 2615

Quote: Wrong.. NO french men makes a part of the legion.

The point is... YEs, the French will get their hands dirty just not with their French citizens.

Thus making your statement that France doesnt want to get into Lebanon because they dont want to use military force void.

Id like to see some proof that no french men are in the legion.

Its was my understanding that 25%-30% were French Citizens and 90% of the officers are French.

Ubon94 · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 58 Location: Ubon Ratchathani

I laugh at the French :lol: the USA should kick the French aside.. :lol:
The French runs, they can't fight worthy :lol: :lol:

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2255 Location: NY upstate

mendosan wrote: Quote: Wrong.. NO french men makes a part of the legion.

The point is... YEs, the French will get their hands dirty just not with their French citizens.

Thus making your statement that France doesnt want to get into Lebanon because they dont want to use military force void.

Id like to see some proof that no french men are in the legion.

Its was my understanding that 25%-30% were French Citizens and 90% of the officers are French.

I see you got your info of Wiki. Hmmm maybe they changed it but i KNOW FOR A FACT! You cant be a MARRIED french man.

Nicolas · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 244 Location: Uppsala, Sweden

First, the Foreign Legion is an integral part of the regular French Army. All the officers of the Foreign legion are French and approximatively 30-35% of the legionnaires are French too.

Above all, IMO, what makes the Legion so different from any other fighting unit in the world is their EXTREME toughness, brutality and their ferocity in battle...discipline in the FFL is really brutal and harsh to say the least. The ability of the legion is reflected in such statements as "march or die" or the grim combat doctrine that once a mission is undertaken it is sacred and must be carried out to the end no matter the cost. They are generally considered as "shock troops" because they have always been at the forefront of the fiercest fighting. I remember I saw a documentary about them and a General told them: "You are Legionnaires to die, I will send you where you can die".
Basically it means they will go places very few other regular units would set foot (when the U.S. left Mogadishu and Somalia it was they who went in and beat the place into line). At the top of the Foreign Legion ranking is the 2e R.E.P. (2nd Foreign parachutist regiment) that is part of the French Special Forces.

I think the advantages for France of having troops from all across the world and having existed for more than 200 years show whenever they go into action.