Political Crossfire Forums

Straudos · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 462

It has been claimed that the Golan occupation is the major obstacle to peace with Syria and Hezbollah. I decided to do a little investigation into the matter, and what I learned didn't seem to fit very well.

First, I decided to look at the Shebaa Farms region on google earth. What I saw surprised me. There is nothing there. It is literally all trees and hills. I could not find a single town in the region. The only man-made structures were roads and a few scattered military outposts. Moreover, there is not much close to it on the Lebanese border other than a little farmland. So my question is, why is this such a big rallying cry for Hezbollah?

Next I looked into the Golan Heights region as a whole. Again, I was very surprised. It was more empty hills and forests. According to the cia world factbook, there are only 40,000 people living in the Golan. 50% of them are Israeli. 45% of them are Druze. As far as I know, the other Druze communities in Israel have done very well and have been very successful. But either way I doubt the disagreement is over the fate of 0.1% of Syria's population.

What the Golan Heights does seem to offer is strategic positioning between Israel and Syria. The high elevation and rugged terrain makes the land very useful for mortar/rocket/artillary fire on the populated Israeli, and to a lesser extent Syrian, border towns.

To some extent, I can understand Syria wanting the Golan Heights back. But I cannot understand how it could be their major objection to peace for 40 years. It is not in their national interest to pursue hostile policies towards Israel over this peace of land. Given the recent (relative) success of Arab-Israeli peace with Egypt and Jordan, there is very little threat of the strategic positioning being used against them (not that it would make a significant difference).

The conclusion I am forced to reach is that the Syrian leadership has and is behaving irrationally in their policy towards Israel over the Golan Heights.

Can someone explain why Hezbollah cares so strongly about the Shebaa Farms and why Syria cares so strongly about the Golan Heights?

ukgirl · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 58 Location: USA

Quote: Can someone explain why Hezbollah cares so strongly about the Shebaa Farms and why Syria cares so strongly about the Golan Heights? Quote:

I will give you the short answer in plain English..

They don't really care about those places, it is another excuse to move in closer to wiping Israel off the map..

Secondary Oak · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 3378 Location: Haifa

Straudos wrote: So my question is, why is this [Shebaa Farms] such a big rallying cry for Hezbollah?
It's an excuse, obviously. Seriously, is there a single rational person in this board that thinks this is truly their reason? Is there a single rational person in the entire west who thinks this is their reason?

Anyway, my point is that it's blatantly obvious Hezbollah couldn't care less about Shebaa Farms. They care about their power and prestige.

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

agreed. Although giving SHebaa to Lebanon could be a nice slap in the face to Syria since it is technically Syrian land.

Nico · Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Posts: 10193

golan is one place where an international force could disarm arguments on both sides.

previsionary · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 86 Location: CHI-TOWN

Quote: It's an excuse, obviously. Seriously, is there a single rational person in this board that thinks this is truly their reason? Is there a single rational person in the entire west who thinks this is their reason?

Anyway, my point is that it's blatantly obvious Hezbollah couldn't care less about Shebaa Farms. They care about their power and prestige.

Its not about power or prestige, matter of fact not even having the land. However, it is the same reason that how the Israelis who are fighting over their 2000 year old claimed land the Lebanese reacted ever since 1964 during the syrian and lebanese joint council disputes over the borders. It took the Lebanese less than 75 years to react over the border.
If these disputes were between between Lebanon and Syria leave it with them. In 2000 Israel pulled out to the blue line, if Israel also pulled out of Sheeba farms they won't have rockets being launched across the Israeli-Lebanese border. Instead Lebanon and Syria would have to deal with their own problems. Unless Israel was looking forward to this agression and great amount of casaulity rate. Israeli made a big mistake of keeping Sheeba farms occupied. It could have kept them out off a lot this sh*t currently happening in Lebanon.

Secondary Oak · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 3378 Location: Haifa

previsionary wrote: In 2000 Israel pulled out to the blue line, if Israel also pulled out of Sheeba farms they won't have rockets being launched across the Israeli-Lebanese border.
You are wrong. I have not the slightest doubt that it would have not made the smallest difference.

Honestly. Not the slightest doubt. 100%. Absolute certainty. I'm afraid my English isn't good enough to stress how sure I am of that.

Zeeman · Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:

If the land is useless then leave it to them and lets get peace between the countries signed and get this mess over with..

Straudos · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 462

The land is pretty much only useful as a strategic location against Israel. So either Syria wants the land because it can be used against Israel, or Syria doesn't want the land and just wants an excuse to be hostile towards Israel. Either way, giving it to Syria would be a bad move.

previsionary · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 86 Location: CHI-TOWN

Quote: The land is pretty much only useful as a strategic location against Israel. So either Syria wants the land because it can be used against Israel, or Syria doesn't want the land and just wants an excuse to be hostile towards Israel. Either way, giving it to Syria would be a bad move.

Well I guess Israel has to deal with the consequences good or bad.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1744 Location: London

mr_happy wrote: agreed. Although giving SHebaa to Lebanon could be a nice slap in the face to Syria since it is technically Syrian land.

Your as bad as the Arabs. Slap in the face? Conducive to peace? I say your all past your sell by date in that region.
Retribution, revenge, getting your own back, tit for tat? When will it stop? Will you guys ever learn? :roll: :roll:

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Plato & Socrates wrote: mr_happy wrote: agreed. Although giving SHebaa to Lebanon could be a nice slap in the face to Syria since it is technically Syrian land.

Your as bad as the Arabs. Slap in the face? Conducive to peace? I say your all past your sell by date in that region.
Retribution, revenge, getting your own back, tit for tat? When will it stop? Will you guys ever learn? :roll: :roll:

EVERYONE in the region needs a slap in the face and a kick in the backside and I MEAN EVERYONE.

theshield · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 347

Plato & Socrates wrote: Will you guys ever learn?

Good question.

For some reason (beyond my grasp) i still have some hope that you will understand.

Take yourself an hour or so and start learning:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967276362246845611&q=Obsession%3A+What+The+War+on+Terror+Is+Really+About

previsionary · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 86 Location: CHI-TOWN

theshield wrote:
Good question.

For some reason (beyond my grasp) i still have some hope that you will understand.

Take yourself an hour or so and start learning:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967276362246845611&q=Obsessi on%3A+What+The+War+on+Terror+Is+Really+About

OK...Co-producer/Co-writer is a Rabbi. For sure that will give an all around honest opinion of "What the War on Terror is Really About"?!?!:shock:

www.obsessionthemovie.com/filmmakers.htm

theshield · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 347

Did you find any flaw in the translation of the Arabic?

previsionary · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 86 Location: CHI-TOWN

Quote: Did you find any flaw in the translation of the Arabic?

Can't really say there are any flaws because I don't know arabic or urdu. But seems like the one sentence clips were real effective. Maybe if they had couple sentences prior and after the ones shown it might NOT have sounded radical rather just plain defensive and/or factual.

"Its important that those engaged in terrorism realize that our detrmination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people in a desire to impose extremism on the world."
-Blair (From the video)

"to cause death and destruction to innocent people"
Well whats Israel doing now??? whos causing the death of "innocent civilians" in Lebanon now. It can't be an earthquake or a hurricane. Its just bombs dropping down on them. Of course thats not terrorism rather just plain idiocy on Israelis behalf. Terrorism is to instill fear. What are the israelis doing to Lebanon now. They are plainly instilling fear within the innocent population.

theshield · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 347

previsionary wrote: whos causing the death of "innocent civilians" in Lebanon now.

Hezbollah