Political Crossfire Forums

leaderwolf · Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 6

Okay, say some alien species from other star systems decided to invade earth with their UFO's and giant spaceships, and the entire U.S. military(best military in the world) will have to prevent Earth from being invaded. Who will win this war??

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

This is a joke right?

battleax86 · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 4997 Location: Texas

The US military. We will team up with the Brits, Israelis, Chinese, and Russians to drive the aliens back to whatever hellhole they came from. We'll let them have France, though. :lol:

Melcar · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:

I don't know. I guess it depends on how advanced this alien race is. In most alien movies the Earth forces are defeated in a few days. A more realistic scenario would be like in Independance Day.

bigstick61 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:01 am Post subject:

Technology is not the end-all of warfare. I think that the U.S. would win, but after taking significant losses and having to shy away from conventional warfare in most cases.

sunwook · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 457

haha, well, since you provide no basis for which to assess the strength of this alien military, im going to assume that they have much more advanced technology than we do.

then, what the U.S. should do is launch nukes everywhere, every single one we've got. Then there will be no earth, and the aliens will go away.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

This must take the award for most pointless thread. I know that President Reagan once ruminated on how an alien invasion would unite the world, but that's in the realm of philosophy as opposed to a cold hard look at defence capabilities.

Plus - why in the history forum?

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:51 am Post subject:

Well, I think any aliens that have the technical know-how to master intergalactic space travel will probably have weapons tech that makes our most advanced weapons tech look like a stone-age club, and the resulting battle wouldn't be so much a battle as a massacre (think The Battle of Omdurman x1000) so yes, I think in all probability they would be able to get the better of all the world's militaries (I don't know why you only included the US military in your hypothetical discussion, I think all of humanity would have a stake in trying to repel the alien invaders don't you?!?)

Esin · Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 1172 Location: Florida

I liked Battlefield Earth's take on the Invasion of Earth... if I remember, the longest battle in the Invasion took something like 6.5 minutes... and that was by a bunch of untrained American recruits.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

leaderwolf wrote: Okay, say some alien species from other star systems decided to invade earth with their UFO's and giant spaceships, and the entire U.S. military(best military in the world) will have to prevent Earth from being invaded. Who will win this war??

They would. If they have interplanetary travel, they are far advanced beyond us. However, I think we should fight them as fiercely as possible. In all of earth's history, the more vicious a group of primitives have been to the more civilized, the better off they've had it. Look at the Pueblo Indians and the Apache Indians. The Pueblos have far worse reservations than the Apaches.

Wyatt Earp · Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 358

One thing I always thought of by watching the movies, if everything started out in the universe the same age, how did the Alien's evolve so much faster then us, to learn to go great distance in space?
I mean our nearest Star beside the Sun is four light years away? that trip would bore the heck out of me.

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject:

Wyatt Earp wrote: One thing I always thought of by watching the movies, if everything started out in the universe the same age, how did the Alien's evolve so much faster then us, to learn to go great distance in space?
I mean our nearest Star beside the Sun is four light years away? that trip would bore the heck out of me.

Not all star systems are the same age. Many stars have lived and died before ours was ever born........

battleax86 · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 4997 Location: Texas

thundertaker wrote: Wyatt Earp wrote: One thing I always thought of by watching the movies, if everything started out in the universe the same age, how did the Alien's evolve so much faster then us, to learn to go great distance in space?
I mean our nearest Star beside the Sun is four light years away? that trip would bore the heck out of me.

Not all star systems are the same age. Many stars have lived and died before ours was ever born........
Exactly, so it wouldn't be inconceivable for an alien civilization with our same intelligence to have a 100,000-year head start.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6956 Location: Ohio

Not necessarily. You fail to realize that another race that advances its technology completely seperately from us may advance down different paths. For all we know, their weapons of war would be akin to bows and arrows.

Space travel would not necessarily mean they have an advanced or powerful military. It just means that they have perfected a faster means of travel.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

thundertaker wrote: Well, I think any aliens that have the technical know-how to master intergalactic space travel will probably have weapons tech that makes our most advanced weapons tech look like a stone-age club, and the resulting battle wouldn't be so much a battle as a massacre (think The Battle of Omdurman x1000) so yes, I think in all probability they would be able to get the better of all the world's militaries (I don't know why you only included the US military in your hypothetical discussion, I think all of humanity would have a stake in trying to repel the alien invaders don't you?!?)

You would think so but imagine this, they are only a few score decades ahead of us but have mastered mid light speed using Hydrogen fuel so about 140,000km/s as well as some sort of suspended animation so the trip takes 30-40 years but they have an invasion fleet all prepared. They have a few decades on us in technology, but most likely have far less people. If you matched all the armies of World War II against the US Army of today for example who would win? Would it be a bloody draw? What if these Aliens really were only about 80 years ahead of us? Or even 100 years ahead of us? Sure they have a massive technological advantage, but is it enough? Could 500,000 modern day troops defeat all the peoples of the world in 1918 and subdue the entire planet? What about as the war dragged on and our technology grew?

The technology that would allow space travel like this is stuff we are just beginning to grasp so it isnt to far out, and it also shows a different idea to the commonly themed super advanced alien civilization. I think it's a very interesting idea to think about.

Of course your idea that they are super advanced alien civilization would completely outclass and grind earth's defenders to dust is also entirely valid. :-D

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6956 Location: Ohio

You also have to consider the natural traits of said species. The species could be really dumb, but have lived for 20000000 years, and thus got advanced. They would still very likely lose even if more advanced, due to poor strategy.

Or they could be smart, but poor at war strategy, or unable to adapt to human ingenuity, and still lose.

There are too many factors to judge.

ATrow · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Colorado

superskippy wrote: thundertaker wrote: Well, I think any aliens that have the technical know-how to master intergalactic space travel will probably have weapons tech that makes our most advanced weapons tech look like a stone-age club, and the resulting battle wouldn't be so much a battle as a massacre (think The Battle of Omdurman x1000) so yes, I think in all probability they would be able to get the better of all the world's militaries (I don't know why you only included the US military in your hypothetical discussion, I think all of humanity would have a stake in trying to repel the alien invaders don't you?!?)

You would think so but imagine this, they are only a few score decades ahead of us but have mastered mid light speed using Hydrogen fuel so about 140,000km/s as well as some sort of suspended animation so the trip takes 30-40 years but they have an invasion fleet all prepared. They have a few decades on us in technology, but most likely have far less people. If you matched all the armies of World War II against the US Army of today for example who would win? Would it be a bloody draw? What if these Aliens really were only about 80 years ahead of us? Or even 100 years ahead of us? Sure they have a massive technological advantage, but is it enough? Could 500,000 modern day troops defeat all the peoples of the world in 1918 and subdue the entire planet? What about as the war dragged on and our technology grew?

The technology that would allow space travel like this is stuff we are just beginning to grasp so it isnt to far out, and it also shows a different idea to the commonly themed super advanced alien civilization. I think it's a very interesting idea to think about.

Of course your idea that they are super advanced alien civilization would completely outclass and grind earth's defenders to dust is also entirely valid. :-D

If you took an M16 and a couple dozen grenades to 1200 AD you would be the king of most of Europe in a few weeks. Of course until you ran out of ammunition.

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:

superskippy wrote: Could 500,000 modern day troops defeat all the peoples of the world in 1918 and subdue the entire planet? What about as the war dragged on and our technology grew?

I think if the technology gap was wide enough this would be perfectly possible. Just to take the British Empire as an example. The British ruled a population of some 300 million in India with no more than 10,000 troops.

Weapons tech is extremely important. A heaviest tank from world war II would barely be able to scratch modern tank, and all the world war II tanks in the world wouldn't be able to subdue a single platoon of Abrams, Challenger IIs or Merkerva's as long as they had ammunition.
I assume if they're going to invade a whole planet they'll bring along plenty of ammunition.

Quote: Not necessarily. You fail to realize that another race that advances its technology completely seperately from us may advance down different paths. For all we know, their weapons of war would be akin to bows and arrows.

Somehow, I think it is unlikely that an aggressive alien race that has mastered interplanetary travel and is going around conquering other planets will be fighting with 'bows and arrows'....

NAB · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject:

ATrow wrote: superskippy wrote: thundertaker wrote: Well, I think any aliens that have the technical know-how to master intergalactic space travel will probably have weapons tech that makes our most advanced weapons tech look like a stone-age club, and the resulting battle wouldn't be so much a battle as a massacre (think The Battle of Omdurman x1000) so yes, I think in all probability they would be able to get the better of all the world's militaries (I don't know why you only included the US military in your hypothetical discussion, I think all of humanity would have a stake in trying to repel the alien invaders don't you?!?)

You would think so but imagine this, they are only a few score decades ahead of us but have mastered mid light speed using Hydrogen fuel so about 140,000km/s as well as some sort of suspended animation so the trip takes 30-40 years but they have an invasion fleet all prepared. They have a few decades on us in technology, but most likely have far less people. If you matched all the armies of World War II against the US Army of today for example who would win? Would it be a bloody draw? What if these Aliens really were only about 80 years ahead of us? Or even 100 years ahead of us? Sure they have a massive technological advantage, but is it enough? Could 500,000 modern day troops defeat all the peoples of the world in 1918 and subdue the entire planet? What about as the war dragged on and our technology grew?

The technology that would allow space travel like this is stuff we are just beginning to grasp so it isnt to far out, and it also shows a different idea to the commonly themed super advanced alien civilization. I think it's a very interesting idea to think about.

Of course your idea that they are super advanced alien civilization would completely outclass and grind earth's defenders to dust is also entirely valid. :-D

If you took an M16 and a couple dozen grenades to 1200 AD you would be the king of most of Europe in a few weeks. Of course until you ran out of ammunition.

I remember reading a Sci-fi series of books long ago on your last point called Janissaries. Modern day soldiers were taken to a planet which had much older Earth cultures (Roman Legions, Highlanders, etc) and began to dominate some of these cultures with their modern weapons. Although in the stories, their ammo was limited, so they also relied on their knowledge of military tactics (including those they fought against). The technology wasn't the only factor in their success, it merely became a force multiplier I suppose.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: I think if the technology gap was wide enough this would be perfectly possible. Just to take the British Empire as an example. The British ruled a population of some 300 million in India with no more than 10,000 troops.

But all of India wasnt armed an in revolt, though I understand the comparison.

Quote: Weapons tech is extremely important. A heaviest tank from world war II would barely be able to scratch modern tank, and all the world war II tanks in the world wouldn't be able to subdue a single platoon of Abrams, Challenger IIs or Merkerva's as long as they had ammunition.

Of course weapons tech is very important, and a few well armed soldiers can take on a mob any day but if there are enough people in the mob the soldiers will fall.

Also it is entirely feasible for World War II tanks to destroy or put out of action a modern tank. It just takes many, many, many tries, which becomes entirely possible considering for the Sherman Tank alone which bore a 75mm gun that could potentially deal damage to the weaker parts on modern tanks was produced to the effect of 30,000 of them.

I think 200 Shermans with 1945 AP ammunition manned by the veteran tank crews could defeat a small platoon of 7-10 modern tanks. While taking 100 losses is still a net gain against an enemy who cannot replenish his supplies.

I always try to look at these scenarios from a military standpoint. While these Aliens may of course bring plenty of ammunition they cannot replace their manpower, their loss of equipment, and the longer the war goes on and we stay in the field and at a battle ready level they lose ground. One thing I think we should all keep in mind, a bullet is a bullet no matter what gun it's fired from and it only takes one bullet to kill.