Political Crossfire Forums

MrLeft · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 265 Location: California

I think the Book of Revelation is a polemic against the Roman Empire. Not an apocalyptic prophesy.

What do you think?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

MrLeft wrote: I think the Book of Revelation is a polemic against the Roman Empire. Not an apocalyptic prophesy.

What do you think?

That it's both.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

MrLeft wrote: I think the Book of Revelation is #1) a polemic against the Roman Empire. Not an #2) apocalyptic prophesy.

What do you think?

I think it is more of #1 than #2. Of course it is possible for it to be #2 I suppose - anything is possible.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

MrLeft wrote: I think the Book of Revelation is a polemic against the Roman Empire. Not an apocalyptic prophesy.

What do you think?

Read the first sentence. It says it is a prophecy.

Quote: 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

BTW the word apocalypse literally means revelation, in Greek. It has come to mean destruction in English, for some reason.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

psholtz wrote: John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

Thats a bit closer than when you claimed they were never mentioned.

Still wrong though.

Gatz Nieblas · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 99 Location: California

I personally believe that, at the time Revelations was written, it was utilized by Christians as a book of hope in the time of the oppressive Roman Empire. Though, I believe the author, John, was foretelling the coming of future events after the Roman Empire towards the end of times.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Well, we are already getting a little taste of the next thing.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

Thats a bit closer than when you claimed they were never mentioned.

Still wrong though.
No seriously..

The Jews are only mentioned in Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9..

Quote away, if you can find some other reference to them in that book.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

Thats a bit closer than when you claimed they were never mentioned.

Still wrong though.
No seriously..

The Jews are only mentioned in Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9..

Quote away, if you can find some other reference to them in that book.

After chapter three, there is no mention of the "Church" (on earth that is)....you'll even notice the phase "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." is not used after chapter 3. In Chapter 4 we see the Church in Heaven with the Lord. And chapter 5 begins the Day of the Lord and the people left on this planet that are "God's people" are the Jews.

Basically the whole world is going to go to war against Israel....and the Lord will save them when they call upon Jesus Christ. We can already see things working up to this right now. Turn on your favorite news source for details.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

Thats a bit closer than when you claimed they were never mentioned.

Still wrong though.
No seriously..

The Jews are only mentioned in Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9..

Quote away, if you can find some other reference to them in that book.

After chapter three, there is no mention of the "Church" (on earth that is)....you'll even notice the phase "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." is not used after chapter 3. In Chapter 4 we see the Church in Heaven with the Lord. And chapter 5 begins the Day of the Lord and the people left on this planet that are "God's people" are the Jews.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was hilarious.... :-D

No, but seriously... what you're saying is that there's no reference to the "Jews" in Revelations beyond the two quotes in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, correct? Anything above and beyond that is just something for which we have no firmer authority other than your own imagination (or perhaps, Missler's). Or in other words, you're just making stuff up..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Well, we are already getting a little taste of the next thing.
And you're still down here on Planet Earth..

You have any ETAs for when you expect to be getting beamed up to Heaven, a la "Rapture"??

I thought you were supposed to be gone by the time the "tribulations" began..

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: John wrote: If you really want to know.

I believe Revelation's specific purpose will be for the Jews during the Tribulation.
Even though the Jews are only mentioned twice in the entire book of Revelations, specifically in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, right?.. Neither reference is very flattering, either, btw..

But conjure on, my friend.. it always entertains me to see what you come up w/ next.. :-D

Thats a bit closer than when you claimed they were never mentioned.

Still wrong though.
No seriously..

The Jews are only mentioned in Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9..

Quote away, if you can find some other reference to them in that book.

After chapter three, there is no mention of the "Church" (on earth that is)....you'll even notice the phase "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." is not used after chapter 3. In Chapter 4 we see the Church in Heaven with the Lord. And chapter 5 begins the Day of the Lord and the people left on this planet that are "God's people" are the Jews.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was hilarious.... :-D

No, but seriously... what you're saying is that there's no reference to the "Jews" in Revelations beyond the two quotes in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, correct? Anything above and beyond that is just something for which we have no firmer authority other than your own imagination (or perhaps, Missler's). Or in other words, you're just making stuff up..

It seems that you have to see the word "Jew" in order to know what's being talked about...

Like I said...it's really written with the Jewish mind set in mind. They'll understand it when the time comes.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: It seems that you have to see the word "Jew" in order to know what's being talked about...
Yes, of course I do... :rotf:

You told me that Rev 4-22 is written about the Jews.. I told you in order for that to be true, it would have to actually mention the Jews, which it does not. So enough w/ this nonsense.. Rev 4-22 has nothing to do w/ the Jews specifically.. can we agree on this much, at least?

Quote: Like I said...it's really written with the Jewish mind set in mind.
Of course it is... :lol:

St. John was a Jew..

Of course it's written w/ a "Jewish" mindset..

Honestly, John.. what's so hard about all this?? :-D

SouthernBelle82 · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 1123 Location: Tennessee

The thing you have to remember is Revelation is very very vague. It's like people trying to predict the future through Nostradmus or something. I'm studying this now at my church in the college class and it's pretty interesting to read and you have to remember that it's mostly symbolism and everything mentioned such as with wars and stuff is things that has happened, is happening or will happen. You just can't predict anything with it.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

SouthernBelle82 wrote: The thing you have to remember is Revelation is very very vague.
It wasn't vague if you were living at that time. The apocaliptic writing style was a genre that its own styles, and if you were living at that time, you would know those styles. It's like spoofs. Have you ever seen Scary Movie 1, 2, or 3, or Airplane, or Top Secret or anything similar to that? It may be funny if you've never seen the movies it's spoofing, but it becomes infinitely more funny if you have. The same is true with apocaliptic works. Sure, they may make a little sense now, but back then, they were very clear. Everybody knew how the genre worked, because LOTS of things were written in it. Nowadays, you don't have many apocaliptic writers, so it's harder to understand. If, on the other hand, one were to study both the time period, or context, of the genre, and multiple works in that genre, it would become clearer and much, much less vague.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8939

The Book of Revelations tells of the second coming of Christ.

It's hard to imagine humanity's salvation as the Apocalypse.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

LostSoul3412 wrote: The Book of Revelations tells of the second coming of Christ.

It's hard to imagine humanity's salvation as the Apocalypse.
Apocalypse is a widely misused term. It originally just meant telling a secret, or divulging secretive information. Then, this term was applied to Revelation (since it IS telling some secretive information), but later that got applied to the destructive fighting of that time. Anywho, there's my contribution to the discussion. :P

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8939

CrossEyedMary wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: The Book of Revelations tells of the second coming of Christ.

It's hard to imagine humanity's salvation as the Apocalypse.
Apocalypse is a widely misused term. It originally just meant telling a secret, or divulging secretive information. Then, this term was applied to Revelation (since it IS telling some secretive information), but later that got applied to the destructive fighting of that time. Anywho, there's my contribution to the discussion. :P

I can understand that.

I was just saying that maybe the end of the world isn't necessarily a bad thing. :wink: