Political Crossfire Forums

whatnotwho · Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 553

Do you think the 2nd amendment would be written differently if created today? The weapons available at the time were crude one shot black powder flintlocks.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 7644 Location: Montana

Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.
Agreed.

ATrow · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Colorado

Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 7644 Location: Montana

ATrow wrote: Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

Things may need to be changed in the future too and hence why the 2nd is still applicable.

JackarooSundown · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 433 Location: Three thirty.

Winchester wrote: ATrow wrote: Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

Things may need to be changed in the future too and hence why the 2nd is still applicable.

For sure. The 2nd is there to enable us to defend against a corrupt govt. when push comes to shove.

ATrow · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Colorado

JackarooSundown wrote: For sure. The 2nd is there to enable us to defend against a corrupt govt. when push comes to shove.

Right, but if you're defending against a corrupt government, you really don't care about following the rules do you? Me (as much as I detest him), I'm not two worried about George Bush turning the American Government into an evil dictatorship. Besides if he did, there are plenty of ways to make weapons without a gun :wink:.

Gatz Nieblas · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 99 Location: California

Really, it seems that Bush is moving the country very close to an evil dictatorship. In fact, the beast has been prevalent in our government and its centralization experiment since those wretched years of FDR when he plunged this country into socialism.

On topic, though, the 2nd amendment would be written the same today since the second amendment calls for defense against an unjust government and calls for the right for everyone to defend themselves (life, liberty, and property). Trust me, there are a few legislators who still hold these values true.

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2574

Winchester wrote: ...a document that has served our citizens so well.

Um...yeah. It's been brilliant.
:lol:

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2574

JackarooSundown wrote: Winchester wrote: ATrow wrote: Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

Things may need to be changed in the future too and hence why the 2nd is still applicable.

For sure. The 2nd is there to enable us to defend against a corrupt govt. when push comes to shove.

Push has come to shove (New freakin' Orleans). What happened? Nothing.
Its all chest-beating and bravado. Nothing more.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 7644 Location: Montana

Blinky wrote: Winchester wrote: ...a document that has served our citizens so well.

Um...yeah. It's been brilliant.
:lol:

Actually it is, quite a lot of forthought by the founding fathers.

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2574

Winchester wrote: Blinky wrote: Winchester wrote: ...a document that has served our citizens so well.

Um...yeah. It's been brilliant.
:lol:

Actually it is, quite a lot of forthought by the founding fathers.

How has it served you well?

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Blinky wrote: Winchester wrote: Blinky wrote: Winchester wrote: ...a document that has served our citizens so well.

Um...yeah. It's been brilliant.
:lol:

Actually it is, quite a lot of forthought by the founding fathers.

How has it served you well?

Not last year:

Quote: Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report, 2005
.........
murder +4.8%
:-D
:-D

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

whatnotwho wrote: Do you think the 2nd amendment would be written differently if created today? The weapons available at the time were crude one shot black powder flintlocks.

Do you think the 1st amendment would be written differently if created today? The "press" available at the time were manually typeset hand operated printing presses. The religions known were various forms of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

ATrow wrote: Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

And if the 2nd amendment (or any other amendment) is considered un-needed, it should be repealed by another amendment, not by going around it by the courts/legislature. Prohibition of alcohol was a stupid, unconstitutional idea, but at least it's proponents did the honest thing and pushed through a constitutional amendment to allow it, instead of having activist judges pervert the Constitution to allow it.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

Blinky wrote: JackarooSundown wrote: Winchester wrote: ATrow wrote: Winchester wrote: Given the nature of the power hungry spineless wonders we have in office now, I doubt any of them would have had the balls to sign the Declaration of Independence let alone have the foresight to draft a document that has served our citizens so well.

Totally. We forget the amendment is only there because things needed to be changed. The amendment was there to reflect the needs at that time.

Things may need to be changed in the future too and hence why the 2nd is still applicable.

For sure. The 2nd is there to enable us to defend against a corrupt govt. when push comes to shove.

Push has come to shove (New freakin' Orleans). What happened? Nothing.
Its all chest-beating and bravado. Nothing more.

The government backed down in New Orleans after merely the threat of a lawsuit, not by violent action. There was no need for chest-beating and bravado. Peaceful means (which most of us gun owners prefer) resolved it.

Onevote · Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1688 Location: Tampa, Florida

Blinky wrote: Winchester wrote: ...a document that has served our citizens so well.

Um...yeah. It's been brilliant.
:lol: Indeed , it is brilliant! and has worked quite well for us. The framers lived under tyranny and understood the evolution of Governments. Something some of you might want to take note of yourselves. Regardless of how much you may love your Country, how much you may trust your Government. Things evolve, and not always for the benefit of it's citizens. Freedom is not free. You must sometimes fight for it.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

I've never had to fight against my government trying to repress me.

nor did my parents, or my grand parents, or THEIR grand parents!

If we'd worried about this happening, it would have been hundreds of years of wasted worrying! Millions of people learning to use guns that wouldn't have needed to because they never used them.

Billions of pounds spent on guns to defend us from our government, which would have been a complete and utter waste of time owning (as, we now know, the government hasn't tried to oppress us into slavery once in, er, well, at least 200 years!). Millions of hours wasted down the gun range as everyone has to learn to shoot a gun to save them from the government, even though they are not remotely interested in guns. Mrs Smith from number 32 who would MUCH rather have spent the money on more clothes for her grandson and hates guns -- but nope -- instead she has to learn to shoot a handgun just in case her government wants to repress her. So do millions of other housewives across the country. But they haven't spent the money on this. They chose in the UK to live gun-free .. AND our government is still working for us, not against us! Amazing eh? Generations after generations have decided to NOT pointlessly learn how to shoot government representatives, buy all the equipment etc. Boring, expensive, time consuming, accident prone and PROVED to be absolutely pointless. It'd have been a total waste of time. Thank goodness we have avoided that one (so far!)

Thank goodness we trust our government and our trust was correctly placed. Meanwhile, you US better start teaching your kids how to defend you freedom. while you do that, and spend money taking your teenagers down the range even though they hate guns, for that day when your government tried to enslave you (!!) I'll be down the pub spending MY money on partying or perhaps giving my kids a new school uniform instead! I don't need to defend myself against my government.

Deep down, to be honest, I think the US government is trying to actually do the best for the American people as well (SHOCK HORROR)! and the 'we must defend ourselves from those nightmare hell-hound government officials' is just a load of silly paranoia

leftneckredwing · Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 32350 Location: North America

You may mever have to save a life either, but should that prevent you from learning CPR?

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

leftneckredwing wrote: You may mever have to save a life either, but should that prevent you from learning CPR?

It's fact that a certain percentage of people will require the use of someone who has been trained for CPR, within our nation. That is the difference.