Political Crossfire Forums

[thatisnotme]

Muslima wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: What on the area where it existed over 1000 years ago as you say?!!!!

before the 1000 years ago the kanaans lived there, which were arabs....this family still exists in jordan.

Yes... and there is a Santa Claus... LOL

[MoscowMatt]

Nico wrote: MoscowMatt wrote:
The point I make is this. The rock throwers obviously hate the Israelis. Today they have a rock in their hand tomorrow it could be a gun grenade, whatever they get their hands on. It's the progression of hate.

Firstly; rock throwers are standing in their own streets, not Israeli streets, which means that someone is out of place. If the Israelis are in a tank then they probably weren't invited. It has been shown that circumstances of foreigners in a strange neighbourhood driving armoured vehicles attract rock-throwing kids. ask any squaddie from the British army:



Secondly, shooting a rock throwing kid will make his friends hate you rather than mock you. rock throwing is as much bravado for their buddies as anything else. the only reason one would shoot a kid is to make them fear you, rather than just protect yourself inside said tank. The deliberate installation of fear into a population is called terrorism.

So returning to the point I am trying to make, how many rock throwing kids do you think will one day pick up an gun, grenade etc?!!!

Do you not agree that a rock throwing kid is more likely to become a militant than a kid who stays at home where it is safe?

[FreedomSpeech]

MoscowMatt wrote: So returning to the point I am trying to make, how many rock throwing kids do you think will one day pick up an gun, grenade etc?!!!

Do you not agree that a rock throwing kid is more likely to become a militant than a kid who stays at home where it is safe?
So the solution is simply killing the kid.. lol, typical zionist thinking :twisted: .

[MoscowMatt]

FreedomSpeech wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: So returning to the point I am trying to make, how many rock throwing kids do you think will one day pick up an gun, grenade etc?!!!

Do you not agree that a rock throwing kid is more likely to become a militant than a kid who stays at home where it is safe?
So the solution is simply killing the kid.. lol, typical zionist thinking :twisted: .

No the solution is kids stop throwing rocks and stop becoming militants and look towards building a constructive future for their country rather than just being the next cycle in all this pointless killing!!

Simple really!!

Did I say the kid should be shot? No!! so get your facts right before you give me all the 'typical zionist' crap!

[Di]

As long as children on both sides are taught hatred, this will go on. Everyone will continue to wag fingers at somebody else for the carnage, but both sides have brought it on themselves. The kind of one-sided hatreds I read in forums like this, posts that don't even acknowledge that there is another side to every issue, is indicative of the entire ME problem. Each side sees the only solution to be destroying the other. The only time there will be peace is when one side or the other succeeds in doing just that.

[Ellron]

superskippy wrote: Ellron wrote: iafhq wrote:

well im not saying Israel is totally innocent there have been cases where soldiers fired upon and killed civilians but they have been trialed and sent to a life sentence as if they killed a fellow Israeli. and yes I condemn their actions, but compared to the amount of destruction and murder the Terorrists have caused Israel, its like comparing an atom to Jupiter!


YEs thats why there are twice the amount of dead Palastinians then Israelis.

Israel has made way more destruction then the terrorist and thats a fact.

A body count is no indication of who is just. In that respect you would have to conclude the Japan was the moral superior due to their marked higher losses.
I wasnt comparing anything to morality. I was showing how he was wrong.

[Ellron]

thatisnotme wrote: Muslima wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: What on the area where it existed over 1000 years ago as you say?!!!!

before the 1000 years ago the kanaans lived there, which were arabs....this family still exists in jordan.

Yes... and there is a Santa Claus... LOL

What the hell does that mean?

You dont believe they lived there before the Israelis?

Ignorance is strength!!

[FreedomSpeech]

MoscowMatt wrote:
No the solution is kids stop throwing rocks and stop becoming militants and look towards building a constructive future for their country rather than just being the next cycle in all this pointless killing!!

Simple really!!

Did I say the kid should be shot? No!! so get your facts right before you give me all the 'typical zionist' crap!
you are defending the israeli tanks actions (which is killing the kid) which means you accept such a solution.

MoscowMatt wrote: look towards building a constructive future for their country
I can't see how would 'building a constructive future for their country' be possible when the IDF keeps destroying civilian buildings and cities' infrastructures. Gaza has no electricity at all, most hospitals have no backup power generators.

[Ellron]

MoscowMatt wrote: FreedomSpeech wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: So returning to the point I am trying to make, how many rock throwing kids do you think will one day pick up an gun, grenade etc?!!!

Do you not agree that a rock throwing kid is more likely to become a militant than a kid who stays at home where it is safe?
So the solution is simply killing the kid.. lol, typical zionist thinking :twisted: .

No the solution is kids stop throwing rocks and stop becoming militants and look towards building a constructive future for their country rather than just being the next cycle in all this pointless killing!!

Simple really!!

Did I say the kid should be shot? No!! so get your facts right before you give me all the 'typical zionist' crap!

Israel is not helping the situation with them giving them reasons to hate them more every day.

Israel will have to stop first before the Palastinians do becasue Israel has their act more straight and are more organized.

[Plato & Socrates]

MoscowMatt wrote:

Once again you completely miss the point, but then as it's you I'm not surprised!! :lol:

The point I make is this. The rock throwers obviously hate the Israelis. Today they have a rock in their hand tomorrow it could be a gun grenade, whatever they get their hands on. It's the progression of hate.

Oh I get it. Its the old progression theory. Yeah right. Today's rock thrower is tomorrows grenade thrower.
STFU! Your case is BS. Why not ban titty milk, since its a natural progression to alcoholism in later life and the stats are indisputable Moscowmatt.
Oh please.... :roll: Trips, Es and weed in my youth, didn't progress to charlie or crack and a thieving habit.
You'll develop paranoia at your rate and soon. Who's that? :shock: :lol:

[superskippy]

The idea that the teens of Palestine who engage in acts of violence no matter how small or ineffective might or will one day become more active in militant organizations is a highly valued idea and many studies have been done on it. The popular phrase used to be "Today a rock, tomorrow a rocket launcher" and variations upon it. People that practice violence like that at such a young age are far more prone to continue to adulthood or took root at a young age with militant groups. It's not even politics it's more about psychology. So while the context in which you think Moscow may be putting his point up is wrong, the basic principle is not.

Also Plato might want to calm it down a little bit.

[thatisnotme]

Ellron wrote: thatisnotme wrote: Muslima wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: What on the area where it existed over 1000 years ago as you say?!!!!

before the 1000 years ago the kanaans lived there, which were arabs....this family still exists in jordan.

Yes... and there is a Santa Claus... LOL

What the hell does that mean?

You dont believe they lived there before the Israelis?

Ignorance is strength!!


It is your connection of kanaans with Arabs of today... like saying Romans were the ancestors of modern Italians!!! There has been so many mixing of bloodlines throughout the thousands of years that you might as well say we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. LOL.

[Plato & Socrates]

superskippy wrote: The idea that the teens of Palestine who engage in acts of violence no matter how small or ineffective might or will one day become more active in militant organizations is a highly valued idea and many studies have been done on it. The popular phrase used to be "Today a rock, tomorrow a rocket launcher" and variations upon it. People that practice violence like that at such a young age are far more prone to continue to adulthood or took root at a young age with militant groups. It's not even politics it's more about psychology. So while the context in which you think Moscow may be putting his point up is wrong, the basic principle is not.

I understand where your coming from skippy and to tell the truth, regarding Moscowmatts assertion. I may have been a bit hasty in my reply. The oversight on my behalf was thinking that Arab Israeli's and Palestinian Arabs live in a normal society with everyday choices to make. The same statistical anomaly came up with young Irish boys who found themselves heavily involved in para-military activities in later life. It is about psychology, I believe more in the (Behaviourist) branch of psychology. Within the environment these young Palestinians find themselves in. It is highly likely that they will progress from rocks to grenades. The question I would ask you and Moscow, from a psychological view point is why?

Quote: Also Plato might want to calm it down a little bit.

Politics can be quite adversarial and I'm first to acknowledge that I can be quite sharp with my tongue and rude.
I have noticed that I have been rude to you and many times it has been unwarranted. I cant promise Duchifas or Moscow just yet, but with you i'll cut it out. Anyway the other 2 give as good as they get.

[Nico]

MoscowMatt wrote: Nico wrote: MoscowMatt wrote:
The point I make is this. The rock throwers obviously hate the Israelis. Today they have a rock in their hand tomorrow it could be a gun grenade, whatever they get their hands on. It's the progression of hate.

Firstly; rock throwers are standing in their own streets, not Israeli streets, which means that someone is out of place. If the Israelis are in a tank then they probably weren't invited. It has been shown that circumstances of foreigners in a strange neighbourhood driving armoured vehicles attract rock-throwing kids. ask any squaddie from the British army:



Secondly, shooting a rock throwing kid will make his friends hate you rather than mock you. rock throwing is as much bravado for their buddies as anything else. the only reason one would shoot a kid is to make them fear you, rather than just protect yourself inside said tank. The deliberate installation of fear into a population is called terrorism.

So returning to the point I am trying to make, how many rock throwing kids do you think will one day pick up an gun, grenade etc?!!!

Do you not agree that a rock throwing kid is more likely to become a militant than a kid who stays at home where it is safe?



No one can deny it. however much like plato I take a behavioralist view of humanity, and it is environment which makes people do these things, notwithstanding that individual personalities play a part. It is too limited to try to cow a rock thrower into submission, when the problem is situational.

There is a big problem when we question the rock throwers and ignore the giant metal thing decked out with a four or five metre gun barrel that they throw rocks at. A tank isn't an Israeli, it's a giant symbol of domination which moves through the streets and tells you by its presence that you and all your kind have to do what the hell you're told. Humans react in very predictable fashion to such situations, from China to Hungary to Ireland to Palestine.

Shooting the rock thrower is immoral even if one thinks that the thrower might grow up to be a bad 'injun' or not, and says a lot about the psyche of the tank crew as much as the guy with the rock.

The only person who isn't dangerous, is a person who has a happy life. Be the one to take away the happiness and be the one being the recipient of rocks, unfortunately. None of this addresses the fact that Israeli tanks are not driving around Israel getting rocks thrown at them, but someone else's city altogether. If someone walked around my house uninvited, I'd find it did something fundamental to my sense of passivity also.



edit: also, a rock thrower knows they can do nothing to a tank. the act is symbolic. Anyone who shoots kids doing this, needs to go home and rethink their idea of what moral is.
An infantryman defending themselves from a crowd I can fully understand; a guy in an MBT? No way.

[cap'n queasy]

superskippy wrote: Ellron wrote: iafhq wrote:

well im not saying Israel is totally innocent there have been cases where soldiers fired upon and killed civilians but they have been trialed and sent to a life sentence as if they killed a fellow Israeli. and yes I condemn their actions, but compared to the amount of destruction and murder the Terorrists have caused Israel, its like comparing an atom to Jupiter!


YEs thats why there are twice the amount of dead Palastinians then Israelis.

Israel has made way more destruction then the terrorist and thats a fact.

A body count is no indication of who is just. In that respect you would have to conclude the Japan was the moral superior due to their marked higher losses.

Skip, don't try to interject logical thought into this.

:lol:

[MoscowMatt]

Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote:

Once again you completely miss the point, but then as it's you I'm not surprised!! :lol:

The point I make is this. The rock throwers obviously hate the Israelis. Today they have a rock in their hand tomorrow it could be a gun grenade, whatever they get their hands on. It's the progression of hate.

Oh I get it. Its the old progression theory. Yeah right. Today's rock thrower is tomorrows grenade thrower.
STFU! Your case is BS. Why not ban titty milk, since its a natural progression to alcoholism in later life and the stats are indisputable Moscowmatt.
Oh please.... :roll: Trips, Es and weed in my youth, didn't progress to charlie or crack and a thieving habit.
You'll develop paranoia at your rate and soon. Who's that? :shock: :lol:

Well I can see from your posts that the drugs obviously had some lasting effect on you!!!! :lol:

Try and make a constructive argument for a change. I've seen from other threads what most people think of you! Says it all really!!!

Oh and lots of people do progress to harder drugs & crime, you need to step outside your front door and take a peek at the real world.

[Ellron]

cap'n queasy wrote: superskippy wrote: Ellron wrote: iafhq wrote:

well im not saying Israel is totally innocent there have been cases where soldiers fired upon and killed civilians but they have been trialed and sent to a life sentence as if they killed a fellow Israeli. and yes I condemn their actions, but compared to the amount of destruction and murder the Terorrists have caused Israel, its like comparing an atom to Jupiter!


YEs thats why there are twice the amount of dead Palastinians then Israelis.

Israel has made way more destruction then the terrorist and thats a fact.

A body count is no indication of who is just. In that respect you would have to conclude the Japan was the moral superior due to their marked higher losses.

Skip, don't try to interject logical thought into this.

:lol:

Yes ignore my rebutal.. You guys are good at that.

Ill say it again just to make you look foolish and show how you people ASSume i was talking about morality

Main statement was. Israel causes less damage then Palastinians.

Then i corrected him saying that Israel has killed twice the many Palastinians as their own dead and has destroyed way more buildings which are facts.

Thank you

Game over.

[superskippy]

Quote: I understand where your coming from skippy and to tell the truth, regarding Moscowmatts assertion. I may have been a bit hasty in my reply.

Never a problam thats what debating further is for eh :wink:

Quote: The oversight on my behalf was thinking that Arab Israeli's and Palestinian Arabs live in a normal society with everyday choices to make. The same statistical anomaly came up with young Irish boys who found themselves heavily involved in para-military activities in later life. It is about psychology, I believe more in the (Behaviourist) branch of psychology.

And I would agree which is pretty much the point I was trying to make. Not a political one just a psychological and one of statistical record.

Quote: It is highly likely that they will progress from rocks to grenades. The question I would ask you and Moscow, from a psychological view point is why?

From a psychological viewpoint? Well I suppose I'd look at it as a natural progression. You start at a young age with violence and due to societal conditions (I'm trying to stay far away from the politics of it) are not reprimanded for it but are looked on positevly for it, and you feel that what you are doing is right. Is it not logical that if that is the case at a young age that as you progress and you see the violence continue you would continue in a more organized format with your peers? As well as at an older age arent you more inclined to carry out a more advanced action? So would that not lead to a more advanced tool IE instead of a rock or firebomb perhaps a gun?

One point I do want to make clear is that the person still has a choice to make and many do choose to defer, however the sociatal influence from the persons community and government as well as the influence from your own actions and mind.

Just my thought.


Quote: Politics can be quite adversarial and I'm first to acknowledge that I can be quite sharp with my tongue and rude.
I have noticed that I have been rude to you and many times it has been unwarranted. I cant promise Duchifas or Moscow just yet, but with you i'll cut it out. Anyway the other 2 give as good as they get.

No need to apologise Plato, just we all fear the all powerful hand of G-.... Nico! :lol:

[Tepic]

Nico wrote: Humans react in very predictable fashion to such situations, from China to Hungary to Ireland to Palestine.

That sounds almost like psychohistory.

I'd be surprised if at least some politicians didn't analyse that kind of thing ... but why do their actions so often seem counterproductive? :?

[Plato & Socrates]

Tepic wrote: Nico wrote: Humans react in very predictable fashion to such situations, from China to Hungary to Ireland to Palestine.

That sounds almost like psychohistory.

I'd be surprised if at least some politicians didn't analyse that kind of thing ... but why do their actions so often seem counterproductive? :?

In one word? SHORT-TERMISM