Political Crossfire Forums

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: I propose a peace process in America with a road map to impose strict gun control laws.
:lol: Good luck with that.

shrub buster · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 679

airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you? How do they make you feel? How do you feel when you kill something with your guns? Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun? Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood? Are you proud of your guns? Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns? These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 11048 Location: Podunk, Colorado

shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.
My guns haven't killed anyone since WWII, anyway, why do you think that making weapons impossible for the law abiding to buy but only slightly inconvenient for the criminals will make anyone safer? I mean really, you are only protecting the life of the criminal and destroying the rights of the law abiding.

Quote: But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you?
They are a hobby.

Quote: How do they make you feel?
Good.

Quote: How do you feel when you kill something with your guns?
If a rattlesnake, I feel good, if its anything else I am neutral.

Quote: Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun?
No, I prefer paper over gopher, but going out and getting those plague carrying pests is good.

Quote: Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood?
Only the evil black ones that annoy people like you.

Quote: Are you proud of your guns?
Very, I worked my a$$ off getting them.

Quote: Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns?
All of them.... I guess I like the evil super assault weapons more.

Quote: These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.
:-|
What I want to change? I don’t want to change a thing. Except the number of guns I have.

Why do you fear animate objects exactly? The mopre questions i ask to expose your fear of a piece of metal and plastic the more i can help you to change.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

Criminals have proven time and time again they will use ANYTHING at their disposal to victimize others. Prisons are a proof of concept, where even newspapers are turned into deadly weapons.

Not only that, but guns are already found in volume within our country's borders, which means there's plenty of weapons that the criminals would still be able to utilize. The criminals, by nature, would not care if such weapons were banned, since it's not like they respect the law in the first place. A ban would only prevent people who abide by the law from owning such weapons, and it effectively underarms them, removing their ability to defend themselves against such weapons.

Quote:
But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you? How do they make you feel? How do you feel when you kill something with your guns? Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun? Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood? Are you proud of your guns? Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns? These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.

I've never killed a living thing with my firearm.

That said, i enjoy shooting. It's the same feeling i got while training, while lifting, while running. It's the feeling of perfecting a specific skill, or ability. They don't, however, make me feel like a man. Not any more then any hammer, or wrench i own do. My guns are tools, just like my martial ability, my fit body, and my knives are.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

Also, Shrub, in regards to the last part of you post: This is a political debate forum. We're here to debate. This isn't firearms anonymous, where the first step is acknowledging you have a problem. We're here to debate with you. If you want to try and debate us, then that's fine, but it sounds like you're just interested in trolling. If that's the case, this might not be the place for you.

TNBiologist · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 962 Location: Tennessee

shrub buster wrote: To all the handgunners here- I have no interest in arguing with you about whether or not you should have guns and whether or not it is smart to have your guns. I have long ago come to the obvious conclusion that you people are wrong and I have now come to the point where I think that the only thing to do is disarm you all by instilling an attitude in you which will cause you to give up your guns.

This section of the forum is about 'gun control' and that's what should be talked about here. Not some fantasies about how your guns make you feel good and worthwhile. What the guns do for you people is entirely beside the point. It's what your guns do to other innocent people that is the problem to be addressed. To put it bluntly U.S. handgunners, save it for somebody who cares.

But I want you all to know that help is available is you reach out and take it!

That is the biggest load of phsyco babble bullsh*t I have ever heard.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you? How do they make you feel? How do you feel when you kill something with your guns? Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun? Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood? Are you proud of your guns? Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns? These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.

Stop the Freudian crap.

Onevote · Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1688 Location: Tampa, Florida

shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you? How do they make you feel? How do you feel when you kill something with your guns? Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun? Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood? Are you proud of your guns? Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns? These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change. I'll bite!

I have 23 firearms, 9 handguns, 5 shotguns, 9 rifles

What do they do for me? Nothing, I view them much the same as I do my coin collection or the tools in my tool box. They are just something to spend money on, In that I'll probably not take a bath on in the event I should sell them.

How do they make me feel? Actually the only ones I have any feelings for are the very old ones, about the same way I do when I buy a gold coin made in the mid 1800's Thinking about the history of it, and where it may have been, who might have owned it.

How do I feel when I kill something with them? Due to where I live these days, I don't often get the chance to kill anything but snakes and rats. I can't say that killing the Rats make me feel good, but the snakes do.

Is it the same feeling when you shoot a target? No, shooting at targets is the same as throwing darts, shooting hoops, Bowling Etc. You try to hit what you are aiming at! Nothing more.

Do you regard your gun as an extension of your manhood? Is this really an honest question? Why would I? Does it make me smarter? Taller? More handsome? Better in the sack? Not hardly!

Are you more proud of your larger guns than your smaller guns? No! I have two guns that I am " proud of" They are my first gun, a marlin model 60, 22 cal. and a Winchester Model 70, 30-06, which was a gift from my wife. That I have now had for 10 years and never shot.

So, there you have it!............Give it a go, tell me what's gone so terribly wrong.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

Onevote wrote: shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now. What do they do for you? How do they make you feel? How do you feel when you kill something with your guns? Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun? Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood? Are you proud of your guns? Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns? These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change. I'll bite!

I have 23 firearms, 9 handguns, 5 shotguns, 9 rifles

What do they do for me? Nothing, I view them much the same as I do my coin collection or the tools in my tool box. They are just something to spend money on, In that I'll probably not take a bath on in the event I should sell them.

How do they make me feel? Actually the only ones I have any feelings for are the very old ones, about the same way I do when I buy a gold coin made in the mid 1800's Thinking about the history of it, and where it may have been, who might have owned it.

How do I feel when I kill something with them? Due to where I live these days, I don't often get the chance to kill anything but snakes and rats. I can't say that killing the Rats make me feel good, but the snakes do.

Is it the same feeling when you shoot a target? No, shooting at targets is the same as throwing darts, shooting hoops, Bowling Etc. You try to hit what you are aiming at! Nothing more.

Do you regard your gun as an extension of your manhood? Is this really an honest question? Why would I? Does it make me smarter? Taller? More handsome? Better in the sack? Not hardly!

Are you more proud of your larger guns than your smaller guns? No! I have two guns that I am " proud of" They are my first gun, a marlin model 60, 22 cal. and a Winchester Model 70, 30-06, which was a gift from my wife. That I have now had for 10 years and never shot.

So, there you have it!............Give it a go, tell me what's gone so terribly wrong.

Well, since you aren't coming right out and saying that you're compensating for something you're OBVIOUSLY in denial!

:roll: :roll:

TNBiologist · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 962 Location: Tennessee

shrub buster wrote: airo and perdid- Thank you for your opinions.

airo, you asked: "Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?"

No, I know that our police forces are working as hard as they can to reduce crime and those who perpetrate the crime. I am interested in eliminating as much as possible the tools they use in the commission of their crimes. Handgun! And therefore, to reduce or eliminate handguns they have to be taken out of the hands of those who carry them around. The U.S. is an example of people gone mad with their need to have handguns and it is carrying over into other countries where innocent people are being killed with your guns.

But let's concentrate on your need to have your guns now.

I'll assume you are leading to a point here so I'll play along for now. I own 3 pistols, 1 shotgun, and 3 rifles.

Quote: What do they do for you?

Depend on what I an using them for at the time. My shotgun usually kils a rabbit for me. My .270 usually kills a deer for me. My .22 usually punches .22 caliber holes in a peice of paper. The pistols usually sit in the safe and sometimes punch holes in paper. You see they are tools or objects of recreation.

Quote: How do they make you feel?

Umm, depends. One pistol reminds me of my grandfather, another of a great-uncle (the people that gave them to me). I'm happy when I use one to hunt ( I enjoy hunting).

Quote: How do you feel when you kill something with your guns?

Sense I only kill something I am going to eat, I tend to be happy abotu a well placed shot then realize I have to feild dress/butcher the thing and haul it out of the woods.

Quote: Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun?

No, I am relaxed when target shooting. I am very focused and only focusing on one thing.

Quote: Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood?

Haha, about as much as my hammer does. You find someone that views their guns as such, let me know.

Quote: Are you proud of your guns?

One that was given to me by my grandfather in his will.

Quote: Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns?

No, the one from my grandfather in a pistol which is much smaller than my rifles, shotgun and one of my other pistols.

Quote: These are all important questions to help me understand you people. I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.

Nope not interested in being "helped". Sorry.

RooK · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2006 Location: SE Kentucky

shrub buster wrote: What do they do for you?

Offer a means of joy, accomplishment, and practical usage.

Quote: How do they make you feel?

The same way I feel about my car. I enjoy using it and pamper/buy it accessories when I can.

Quote: How do you feel when you kill something with your guns?

Depends. When it's a deer or some animal that requires skill to take, I get a sense of accomplishment. The food is good too. But I also enjoyed those times spent outdoors and with family. When killing pests, it generally runs from pity to indifference, depending on what kind of animal. I prefer not to kill some animals, but it's usually the most cost effective way to remove them. I also opt not to kill some animals that have hunting seasons.

Quote: Is it the same feeling as when you shoot at a target with your gun?

Usually shooting targets, when for fun (not practice, competition), it's like lighting off fireworks. It's just enjoyable and everyone likes playing along. I've had some fun times with family and friends doing this as well.

Quote: Do you regard your guns as an extension of your manhood?

Probably the stupidest question ever. It's a tool and offers no more extensions of manhood than any other object. It's more closely related, in use, to sports equipment or kitchen knives. People sometimes try to show off while playing basketball, but that doesn't mean the ball is an extension of their manhood. It also seems to be a mentality exacerbated by media and movies, especially in communities where firearms are uncommon. Around here, just about everyone owns a gun or several.

Quote: Are you proud of your guns?

More of the accomplishments from practice and skill I've gained. I also like more powerful handguns, mainly because they have a broader usage range and I'm usually not affected by the recoil.

Quote: Are you more proud of your larger guns than of your smaller guns?

Some can be more interesting to shoot, say something like my 4" .44 magnum revolver. They're somewhat atypical for a cartridge that big and barrel that short. It not only increases recoil, but you'll get a sensation of muzzle blast that is hard to duplicate. It also has practical reasons for the short barrel. Think of it like glasspacks on a V8, it does garner attention, but also has a purpose. People like to display a lot of things for attention: large houses, fancy boats, expensive SUVs, why would guns be any different than these common?

Quote: I may be able to help if you are interested in being helped. Just the fact that you respond to me is an indication that you want to change.

No, my response is not an indication to change. It's an indication for us to reach a better understanding.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14445 Location: idaho

Amazing how shrubbuster sounds so much like LL. I can play also, but you gotta stop on all the psycho BS guy. Debate fine and cool, make your points and get it on.
But please don't take the next step and say that my owning the weapons I do and say something silly like it being worthless or I did not get my monies worth.
I get my monies worth when I take this onto the range for training purposes and demonstrations to military and law enforcement.

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But all in all my friend welcome and lets all have fun. :-D

shrub buster · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 679

wolverine, you said: "My guns haven't killed anyone since WWII, anyway, why do you think that making weapons impossible for the law abiding to buy but only slightly inconvenient for the criminals will make anyone safer? I mean really, you are only protecting the life of the criminal and destroying the rights of the law abiding."

The statistics make it clear that the u.s. far exceeds most first world countries in the world for gun killings. Therefore, if you expect me to believe that your excess number of handguns are being used only by criminals to commit their crimes, then your country must have far more criminals than all those other countries. Is this another problem with your country that is not being accepted as general knowledge? And if not, are the killings happening because of the outrageous number of handguns in the hands of the law abiding people too?

I think those questions deserve some careful consideration.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14445 Location: idaho

shrubbuster, why would you want to take away guns from law abiding citizens who have done nothing illegal, not broken any laws, have met all the requirements needed to own said weapon or weapons.
To keep it out of the hands of bad guys yes, but why decent and law abiding folks?

People that own weapons that are legal in all ways, enjoy them and have a great deal of respect for what that weapon can and cannot do. To understand it and appreciate it is a good thing. To teach your children in a correct manner about that weapon or any weapon is a good thing. I don't know how you do it in Canada but here in some places hunting and understanding weapons is a way of life. A way of life that many will not surrender.
As long as we are within the law then there is no reason why weapons should be taken away from law abiders. If you can shed some light on why weapons should be taken away from law abiders then have at it.
The good guys are not bad guys!!!!

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

shrub buster wrote: s this another problem with your country that is not being accepted as general knowledge?

Actually, yes.

Very few countries in the Western world have the social issues that are latent in American culture.

But these stem from a number of things, many of which may not be the most "politically correct" things people want to hear.

Quote: And if not, are the killings happening because of the outrageous number of handguns in the hands of the law abiding people too?

Where do you guys get the idea that guns somehow drive people to commit murder? I'm seriously curious. I mean, it would be NICE if i could blame all my actions on an inanimate object. Is that what they do in your country?

Quicksurf · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4675

shrub buster wrote: The statistics make it clear that the u.s. far exceeds most first world countries in the world for gun killings.

Right, and most of those guns are gotten from the blackmarket, not gun stores. If a criminal wants a gun, he can get one.

shrub buster wrote: Therefore, if you expect me to believe that your excess number of handguns are being used only by criminals to commit their crimes, then your country must have far more criminals than all those other countries.

Since there are so many guns in America, it would be pointless to take them away from law abiding citizens. Which would mean the only two groups of people with guns would be criminals and the goverment.

shrub buster wrote: Is this another problem with your country that is not being accepted as general knowledge? And if not, are the killings happening because of the outrageous number of handguns in the hands of the law abiding people too?

I have the right to kill someone if they want to kill me. Who cares about statistics?

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

airo wrote: shrub buster wrote: s this another problem with your country that is not being accepted as general knowledge?

Actually, yes.

Very few countries in the Western world have the social issues that are latent in American culture.

But these stem from a number of things, many of which may not be the most "politically correct" things people want to hear.

Quote: And if not, are the killings happening because of the outrageous number of handguns in the hands of the law abiding people too?

Where do you guys get the idea that guns somehow drive people to commit murder? I'm seriously curious. I mean, it would be NICE if i could blame all my actions on an inanimate object. Is that what they do in your country?

Guns make is easier to kill people than not having guns. Hence it will drive some people to commit murder.

For example I believe drive-by shootings would be more difficult to achieve if the people planning them did not have guns. They would not always think of some way to kill all the people (including innocent bystanders) using other means. They couldn't be bothered / it is too risky for them.

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

britboy wrote: airo wrote: shrub buster wrote: s this another problem with your country that is not being accepted as general knowledge?

Actually, yes.

Very few countries in the Western world have the social issues that are latent in American culture.

But these stem from a number of things, many of which may not be the most "politically correct" things people want to hear.

Quote: And if not, are the killings happening because of the outrageous number of handguns in the hands of the law abiding people too?

Where do you guys get the idea that guns somehow drive people to commit murder? I'm seriously curious. I mean, it would be NICE if i could blame all my actions on an inanimate object. Is that what they do in your country?

Guns make is easier to kill people than not having guns. Hence it will drive some people to commit murder.

For example I believe drive-by shootings would be more difficult to achieve if the people planning them did not have guns. They would not always think of some way to kill all the people (including innocent bystanders) using other means. They couldn't be bothered / it is too risky for them.

That's why there's no murder in prisons, right? Because they don't have guns? (SIC)

Guns don't make it easier to kill someone, and someone who is intent on murder will commit it no matter the weapons they have to resort through.

Did you know most shootings occur within 7 feet? Did you know that most studies have found that a male armed with a melee weapon is dangerous within 9 feet, because he could hypothetically close the distance and attack in around a second? Do you see the line i'm connecting here?

If someone is going to shoot someone, it will generally occur within 7 feet. He could easily close the distance, and use a knife, or shank, or some other implement, and in all honesty would if he didn't have a gun to use.

Gang violence is nothing new to America, and has existed since our country was born. It was just as violent then as it is now, and before firearms were widely available, they had no problem using sticks and axes.

In fact, if you want to educate yourself, read up on fire departments, and how they were formed in large cities early in American history.

wayne · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 140 Location: PA.

Hey there brit.
Don't look now, but your country is being surrounded by a threat called militant Islam. They don't care for your 1960's mentality of peace, love and flowers. They have migrated to all the countries of the world....surrounding your little tea party with suicide bombers who want to enter every non Islamic populated area and terrorize your neighborhood.

That ain't all, the communists of the world are starting to get jealous that the Islamic radicals are getting to do all the fun stuff like killing and blowing things up.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3571 Location: London

wayne wrote: Hey there brit.
Don't look now, but your country is being surrounded by a threat called militant Islam. They don't care for your 1960's mentality of peace, love and flowers. They have migrated to all the countries of the world....surrounding your little tea party with suicide bombers who want to enter every non Islamic populated area and terrorize your neighborhood.

That ain't all, the communists of the world are starting to get jealous that the Islamic radicals are getting to do all the fun stuff like killing and blowing things up.

er .. what? My country is surrounded by water and the French.

By communists I presume that you mean the Cubans as I can't think of many others?

So what you're saying is Cubans are getting jealous of the French who want to blow themselves up because we're having a tea party?

What? eh?

Talk about a surreal comedy post!