Political Crossfire Forums

[Lucky Luke]

chilirainbow wrote:
Nice try.

In Ireland, I was 11. My father was robbed at gunpiont walking to his car from the chemical plant he worked at.

I was in the military while in Germany. My wife and I were robbed at gunpoint at the Frankfurt airport. WE nitified the police, but they just took our statement. They didnt even look for the guy.

Europe isn't as safe as you make it out to be. You quote statistics, which are usualy skewed to the point of view of the person collecting the data, and then make assinine assumptions as to the feelings of others.
Making remarks about something that you really have no experience with makes you look like a fool.

Your arguments are laughable and holow.
:lol:

"There are lies, damn lies, and then theres statistics." Mark Twain

It is very hard to believe when I don't know anyone who has been held at gun point in Europe and I have been travelling about. In fact in all my life in Europe I never heard a gun shot in the European streets. Last time I was in the US gun shots woke me up. Someone got killed just across the street of the hotel I stayed in.

What experience haven't I got that would make me look like a fool Chilirainbow?

I repeat my question, how many times did you get stabbed, shot at and killed while in Europe?

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

lilwolf wrote: britboy,
In my line of work I do carry a concealed weapon. Not because I truly enjoy it, but because I am safer if i do carry one. Not everyone here feels a deep seated need to carry or own a weapon. In europe (as is here) no one is totally safe. There will always be crooks, It is indeed a good thing that you have never had to experience having someone break in and rob you or something worse. I also would count my blessings on that as well.
I have had some bad experiences but all in all my home is pretty safe and my girlfriend does not carry a gun nor does she have a need to. That's a good thing. LL is always going after gun control. There are things he is hung up on and things he will never get either. For what ever reason they are it is often funny to watch him going after an item like a gun.
Anyway, all in all count your blessings my friend. :-D

LL is always going after gun control because it is what this forum is all about!

What else is to get?
:-D
:-D

[lilwolf]

Chilirainbow brings an interesting point LL. I know of numerous people that were robbed at gun point in Europe over the past "RECENT" years. So much for your theory of safe streets in Europe.
Gun control cannot work in the context you want LL. It is simply never going to be accepted here in the US (thank GOD). The laws are already good but the people in charge are always coming up with worthless crap to make another attempt at taking our rights away. The brady law did nothing to stop guns. We all know that. Yet it has been twisted and used incorrectly over the years. That's a fact as well.
England is not so safe and neither is Scotland. That's a fact. One you should think about. Get your own house in order and then go after someone elses house.

[Lucky Luke]

lilwolf wrote: Chilirainbow brings an interesting point LL. I know of numerous people that were robbed at gun point in Europe over the past "RECENT" years. So much for your theory of safe streets in Europe.
Gun control cannot work in the context you want LL. It is simply never going to be accepted here in the US (thank GOD). The laws are already good but the people in charge are always coming up with worthless crap to make another attempt at taking our rights away. The brady law did nothing to stop guns. We all know that. Yet it has been twisted and used incorrectly over the years. That's a fact as well.
England is not so safe and neither is Scotland. That's a fact. One you should think about. Get your own house in order and then go after someone elses house.

Facts Lilwolf, can you back them up?

What are you saying exactly what streets are safer and where is your life more at risk?

:-D
:-D

[lilwolf]

LL you really like to turn things a bit. I am refering to safe streets in Europe. I know people that have been mugged and robbed in Europe.
I also know that many times reports are filed and nothing is done about it.
The safer streets mentioned are simply totaly non-existant. Even that is a fact you cannot argue with LL.
I have never been personally robbed on a street in America either but that's not to say it will not happen. I carry a gun and I like it when I am in the performance of my job and business. Hence, I am very unlikely to be robbed because I am not an easy target for a would be bad guy with intent.

[shrub buster]

Little Luke- I think it's great that you care about these poor Americans who are getting shot dead at such a horrendous rate but I don't think they appreciate your caring. I really think that they are going to have to let it get so bad that eventually they will get the message on their own. But by all means, continue to try to help and advise them on what they could have if they wanted change. Even though I don't understand their great animosity towards decent people who try to set them straight.

Perhaps it is because of all their wars which must have made them a hateful and warring society. Perhaps that is why they need to pacd around guns and always remind themselves of their hate, while hoping for a reason to use their gun on somebody. I know that sometimes from the rhetoric they spew that at least some of them are hoping for a gunfight. Just listen to them when they are at their best explaining in gory detail how they are going to blow somebody away with their big handgun.

[lilwolf]

Law abiding legal people with a legal right to own a handgun are less liklely to shoot someone that some ding dong from a foreign nation that has no clue of what having a gun is really all about. To own a weapon first means that you understand that it is a weapon and in itself it is useless.
But when a person makes the step and intends to commit a crime ( for whatever reason) then they are and should not have a gun.
My "bighandgun" is simply a tool that I use in work and when I go hunting or to the range.
We do not have the BS that other nations have or some of the problems that they have. What bothers Americans is when some yokel from a foreign nation comes along and tries to dictate what we should be doing. Many of those same people feel some psychological need to attempt to cram stuff they want imposed down our throats. But the real funny things are these: What gives them the right to attempt it?
The other is this: There own house (nation) is just as screwed up with people using knives so they need to get their own house in order and then we might listen with more attention and interest.
Finally when someone implies with the usuasl crap about us being warring or some such thing like that. The vast majority of us may not like the government but we do like our constitution.
Now if it is so bad here why are there so many Europeans and Canadians wanting to get here and away from the crap they have to deal with everyday. No society is perfect and we are not. But we still keep and bear arms - and we would not give that up no matter who said give up your guns.
Have a nice day in Scotland and Canada. :-D

[Lucky Luke]

lilwolf wrote: LL you really like to turn things a bit. I am refering to safe streets in Europe. I know people that have been mugged and robbed in Europe.
I also know that many times reports are filed and nothing is done about it.
The safer streets mentioned are simply totaly non-existant. Even that is a fact you cannot argue with LL.
I have never been personally robbed on a street in America either but that's not to say it will not happen. I carry a gun and I like it when I am in the performance of my job and business. Hence, I am very unlikely to be robbed because I am not an easy target for a would be bad guy with intent.

All this is very nice but what streets are safer Lilwolf, American ones or European ones? Where is your life more at risk, America or Europe?

This is what you haven't told us yet Lilwolf.

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

shrub buster wrote: Little Luke- I think it's great that you care about these poor Americans who are getting shot dead at such a horrendous rate but I don't think they appreciate your caring. I really think that they are going to have to let it get so bad that eventually they will get the message on their own. But by all means, continue to try to help and advise them on what they could have if they wanted change. Even though I don't understand their great animosity towards decent people who try to set them straight.

Perhaps it is because of all their wars which must have made them a hateful and warring society. Perhaps that is why they need to pacd around guns and always remind themselves of their hate, while hoping for a reason to use their gun on somebody. I know that sometimes from the rhetoric they spew that at least some of them are hoping for a gunfight. Just listen to them when they are at their best explaining in gory detail how they are going to blow somebody away with their big handgun.

There is something dramatically wrong with the American handgun culture but it will cease with the number of American gun lovers going down every year. They are a dying breed and they know it. The danger is the last attempt of handguns merchants to conquer new markets all over the world, I think we are all aware of the danger and our governments are working very hard to get the number of handguns down.
What is mostly surprising is that educated people living in a western democratic country can't see what they are doing to themselves.

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

lilwolf wrote: Law abiding legal people with a legal right to own a handgun are less liklely to shoot someone that some ding dong from a foreign nation that has no clue of what having a gun is really all about. To own a weapon first means that you understand that it is a weapon and in itself it is useless.
But when a person makes the step and intends to commit a crime ( for whatever reason) then they are and should not have a gun.
My "bighandgun" is simply a tool that I use in work and when I go hunting or to the range.
We do not have the BS that other nations have or some of the problems that they have. What bothers Americans is when some yokel from a foreign nation comes along and tries to dictate what we should be doing. Many of those same people feel some psychological need to attempt to cram stuff they want imposed down our throats. But the real funny things are these: What gives them the right to attempt it?
The other is this: There own house (nation) is just as screwed up with people using knives so they need to get their own house in order and then we might listen with more attention and interest.
Finally when someone implies with the usuasl crap about us being warring or some such thing like that. The vast majority of us may not like the government but we do like our constitution.
Now if it is so bad here why are there so many Europeans and Canadians wanting to get here and away from the crap they have to deal with everyday. No society is perfect and we are not. But we still keep and bear arms - and we would not give that up no matter who said give up your guns.
Have a nice day in Scotland and Canada. :-D

Thank you for sharing your views on Europe and Canada but what streets are safer Lilwolf, American ones, Canadian ones or European ones? Where is your life more at risk, America, Canada or Europe?

:-D
:-D

[lilwolf]

That depends LL. If I am on vacation in Ottawa or some place, I would feel safer than in Europe. I also think that in my area of America my city is pretty safe and I do not worry about getting shot any where. I can not say that all streets are safe. that would be nuts to go there. But also take a look at where the vast majority of the crime you love to talk about is committed. Much is in lower income and poverty stricken areas.
I am more likely to be robbed at knife point in England or Scotland than here. God help the fool that tries it on me. I can and have taken care of myself. Not a big tough guy but someone that is trained to deal with those situations. As for being shot here - doubtful. I still feel safer here than anywhere I have been in the past few years.
as for myl ife being at risk. I will not take an American side and say we are safer. Given my job and lifestyle (you love to attack that) I can say that there are no streets in any of these nations that are 100% safe. i realize that might seem like a cop out to you, but that is also being honest with you.

[Onevote]

shrub buster wrote: Little Luke- I think it's great that you care about these poor Americans who are getting shot dead at such a horrendous rate but I don't think they appreciate your caring. I really think that they are going to have to let it get so bad that eventually they will get the message on their own. But by all means, continue to try to help and advise them on what they could have if they wanted change. Even though I don't understand their great animosity towards decent people who try to set them straight.

Perhaps it is because of all their wars which must have made them a hateful and warring society. Perhaps that is why they need to pacd around guns and always remind themselves of their hate, while hoping for a reason to use their gun on somebody. I know that sometimes from the rhetoric they spew that at least some of them are hoping for a gunfight. Just listen to them when they are at their best explaining in gory detail how they are going to blow somebody away with their big handgun. Whats with you bunny huggers? Do you honestly think a person must be a war mongering, trigger happy, maniac just looking to get into an old west style gun fight! There are a host of reasons to own guns, none of which have anything to do with wanting to shoot people. My car has a bumper of the front. Does that mean I like to ram it into things? No! How about this for an example: You paper money is nothing more than an IOU. Guns are as good as gold any day of the week, and can be traded for anything at anytime. So by and large they make a good investment. Some people like to shoot for recreation, I.E a hobby. Some people collect then the same as they would cars, stamps, coins, Etc. Some people like to hunt. And the argument that they can be used as self defense! And, Might I remind you of the L.A riots! The defenseless people were just that! Defenseless! So open your mind a bit and you might realize the truth, A gun is only as dangerous as the person holding it.

[Quicksurf]

britboy wrote: I travelled round places where guns are prevelant (including the US). I just felt slightly sorry for the people there that they lived in a country where they felt they needed to be armed to be safe. They needed the capability to kill anyone as they went shopping for their diapers or their golf clubs. Just an underlying feeling, as you see the pregnant lady spending money she can't really afford on a gun that she hopes to god she's never needs, that something is going wrong within the society.

I am very lucky. In my country no-one needs to carry a loaded gun around! I'm safe from guns, so is my wife, so are my kids! For free! Always! We take it for granted! No spending money on firearms, ever. No risk of accident to anyone, ever. No spending more money and time and effort learning about guns, ever. There is no point .. not even criminals have them. Fantastic. I think I'll spend the cash I've saved on guns, ammo and training on something else. Perhaps buy a nicer car than our 'no gun control' neighbours. They can have a 5 years old Ford as they have to spend the rest on protecting themselves. I have no-one to protect myself against! Think I'll buy a brand new Ford personally! Hey, if a nutter wants to beat me up, I know he hasn't got a gun. That's a really nice detail. One more worry off my mind.

There is virtually no chance anyone that breaks into my house will have a gun. That makes me feel good. It's nice knowing criminals have a very,very difficult time getting armed, and there's no point in them doing it anyway. I'm feeling real safe now!

I know that my friend that works in a convenience store has virtually no chance of being held up at gun point. Wow this is a nice place to live.

I know that if my neighbour is having an argument with his wife, he doesn't have the option to blow her brains out. Wow that's kind of cool. There will never be an illegal discharge where I live, no matter where I live, in my country. My kids will never hear a gunshot in their entire lives. Society is safer than that. We've moved beyond guns, all of us. We're gonna enjoy trusting each other and our government. You can join the party any time you like.

Furthermore, excellent, I know there are no 'wanna be tough men' who go around with an armed weapon just because they feel 'cool, tough and dangerous'. The best they manage is a knife.

The exceptions to this rule are so rare, they can virtually be discounted.

I really do, truly, hope one day all countries will be able to live in the safety and security that a gun-free society offers. If you never have, and you spend time worrying about how to defend yourself when you SHOULD be down the local having a beer or three with your friends:- trust me, you really don't know what you are missing (and will presume I'm lying about the above in some way and we're all madly being raped and burgled over here .. but imagine for a second .. what if we're not! ).

:lol: When I first read this I thought it was a joke.

[Wolverine]

Quicksurf wrote: britboy wrote: I travelled round places where guns are prevelant (including the US). I just felt slightly sorry for the people there that they lived in a country where they felt they needed to be armed to be safe. They needed the capability to kill anyone as they went shopping for their diapers or their golf clubs. Just an underlying feeling, as you see the pregnant lady spending money she can't really afford on a gun that she hopes to god she's never needs, that something is going wrong within the society.

I am very lucky. In my country no-one needs to carry a loaded gun around! I'm safe from guns, so is my wife, so are my kids! For free! Always! We take it for granted! No spending money on firearms, ever. No risk of accident to anyone, ever. No spending more money and time and effort learning about guns, ever. There is no point .. not even criminals have them. Fantastic. I think I'll spend the cash I've saved on guns, ammo and training on something else. Perhaps buy a nicer car than our 'no gun control' neighbours. They can have a 5 years old Ford as they have to spend the rest on protecting themselves. I have no-one to protect myself against! Think I'll buy a brand new Ford personally! Hey, if a nutter wants to beat me up, I know he hasn't got a gun. That's a really nice detail. One more worry off my mind.

There is virtually no chance anyone that breaks into my house will have a gun. That makes me feel good. It's nice knowing criminals have a very,very difficult time getting armed, and there's no point in them doing it anyway. I'm feeling real safe now!

I know that my friend that works in a convenience store has virtually no chance of being held up at gun point. Wow this is a nice place to live.

I know that if my neighbour is having an argument with his wife, he doesn't have the option to blow her brains out. Wow that's kind of cool. There will never be an illegal discharge where I live, no matter where I live, in my country. My kids will never hear a gunshot in their entire lives. Society is safer than that. We've moved beyond guns, all of us. We're gonna enjoy trusting each other and our government. You can join the party any time you like.

Furthermore, excellent, I know there are no 'wanna be tough men' who go around with an armed weapon just because they feel 'cool, tough and dangerous'. The best they manage is a knife.

The exceptions to this rule are so rare, they can virtually be discounted.

I really do, truly, hope one day all countries will be able to live in the safety and security that a gun-free society offers. If you never have, and you spend time worrying about how to defend yourself when you SHOULD be down the local having a beer or three with your friends:- trust me, you really don't know what you are missing (and will presume I'm lying about the above in some way and we're all madly being raped and burgled over here .. but imagine for a second .. what if we're not! ).

:lol: When I first read this I thought it was a joke.
But really we are all oppressed, and very paranoid. Isn't that right britboy?

[lolninjaz]

I, for one, think it's great that a government can more or less disarm its people, and be loved for it.

[britboy]

Wolverine wrote: Quicksurf wrote: britboy wrote: I travelled round places where guns are prevelant (including the US). I just felt slightly sorry for the people there that they lived in a country where they felt they needed to be armed to be safe. They needed the capability to kill anyone as they went shopping for their diapers or their golf clubs. Just an underlying feeling, as you see the pregnant lady spending money she can't really afford on a gun that she hopes to god she's never needs, that something is going wrong within the society.

I am very lucky. In my country no-one needs to carry a loaded gun around! I'm safe from guns, so is my wife, so are my kids! For free! Always! We take it for granted! No spending money on firearms, ever. No risk of accident to anyone, ever. No spending more money and time and effort learning about guns, ever. There is no point .. not even criminals have them. Fantastic. I think I'll spend the cash I've saved on guns, ammo and training on something else. Perhaps buy a nicer car than our 'no gun control' neighbours. They can have a 5 years old Ford as they have to spend the rest on protecting themselves. I have no-one to protect myself against! Think I'll buy a brand new Ford personally! Hey, if a nutter wants to beat me up, I know he hasn't got a gun. That's a really nice detail. One more worry off my mind.

There is virtually no chance anyone that breaks into my house will have a gun. That makes me feel good. It's nice knowing criminals have a very,very difficult time getting armed, and there's no point in them doing it anyway. I'm feeling real safe now!

I know that my friend that works in a convenience store has virtually no chance of being held up at gun point. Wow this is a nice place to live.

I know that if my neighbour is having an argument with his wife, he doesn't have the option to blow her brains out. Wow that's kind of cool. There will never be an illegal discharge where I live, no matter where I live, in my country. My kids will never hear a gunshot in their entire lives. Society is safer than that. We've moved beyond guns, all of us. We're gonna enjoy trusting each other and our government. You can join the party any time you like.

Furthermore, excellent, I know there are no 'wanna be tough men' who go around with an armed weapon just because they feel 'cool, tough and dangerous'. The best they manage is a knife.

The exceptions to this rule are so rare, they can virtually be discounted.

I really do, truly, hope one day all countries will be able to live in the safety and security that a gun-free society offers. If you never have, and you spend time worrying about how to defend yourself when you SHOULD be down the local having a beer or three with your friends:- trust me, you really don't know what you are missing (and will presume I'm lying about the above in some way and we're all madly being raped and burgled over here .. but imagine for a second .. what if we're not! ).

:lol: When I first read this I thought it was a joke.
But really we are all oppressed, and very paranoid. Isn't that right britboy?

You're not all oppressed. You give the impression you live in constant fear that there is risk you are going to be oppressed by your government - which is a real shame.

I am lucky. I've never felt that fear. I, 100%, do not believe Tony Blair wants to enslave us all, shoot half of us, and use the rest of use in forced labour camps to build, er, 1000 foot high statues of him. I believe that EVEN THOUGH I DON'T OWN A HANDGUN, my government is STILL not going to enslave me. As I said, I lead a blessed life.

[perdidochas]

Lucky Luke wrote:

It is very hard to believe when I don't know anyone who has been held at gun point in Europe and I have been travelling about. In fact in all my life in Europe I never heard a gun shot in the European streets. Last time I was in the US gun shots woke me up. Someone got killed just across the street of the hotel I stayed in.

Funny, I've lived here 39 yrs, and I've never heard a shot fired in anger.

Lucky Luke wrote: What experience haven't I got that would make me look like a fool Chilirainbow?

I repeat my question, how many times did you get stabbed, shot at and killed while in Europe?

The same number of times I've been stabbed, shot at and killed while in America. None.

[shrub buster]

To all the handgunners here- I have no interest in arguing with you about whether or not you should have guns and whether or not it is smart to have your guns. I have long ago come to the obvious conclusion that you people are wrong and I have now come to the point where I think that the only thing to do is disarm you all by instilling an attitude in you which will cause you to give up your guns.

This section of the forum is about 'gun control' and that's what should be talked about here. Not some fantasies about how your guns make you feel good and worthwhile. What the guns do for you people is entirely beside the point. It's what your guns do to other innocent people that is the problem to be addressed. To put it bluntly U.S. handgunners, save it for somebody who cares.

But I want you all to know that help is available is you reach out and take it!

[perdidochas]

shrub buster wrote: To all the handgunners here- I have no interest in arguing with you about whether or not you should have guns and whether or not it is smart to have your guns. I have long ago come to the obvious conclusion that you people are wrong and I have now come to the point where I think that the only thing to do is disarm you all by instilling an attitude in you which will cause you to give up your guns.

This section of the forum is about 'gun control' and that's what should be talked about here. Not some fantasies about how your guns make you feel good and worthwhile. What the guns do for you people is entirely beside the point. It's what your guns do to other innocent people that is the problem to be addressed. To put it bluntly U.S. handgunners, save it for somebody who cares.

I've owned one handgun for almost 20 yrs, I've owned another 2 for about 15 yrs. Guess what, no innocent people have been killed as long as I've owned them. Heck, my father has owned some handguns for over 40 yrs. No innocent people have been killed by them.

Hmm, I don't think the problem is handguns. It's criminals.

[airo]

shrub buster wrote: To all the handgunners here- I have no interest in arguing with you about whether or not you should have guns and whether or not it is smart to have your guns. I have long ago come to the obvious conclusion that you people are wrong and I have now come to the point where I think that the only thing to do is disarm you all by instilling an attitude in you which will cause you to give up your guns.

This section of the forum is about 'gun control' and that's what should be talked about here. Not some fantasies about how your guns make you feel good and worthwhile. What the guns do for you people is entirely beside the point. It's what your guns do to other innocent people that is the problem to be addressed. To put it bluntly U.S. handgunners, save it for somebody who cares.

But I want you all to know that help is available is you reach out and take it! My guns don't do anything to innocent people...

In fact, no gun has ever done anything on it's own to innocent people.

Now, criminals have done PLENTY of things to innocent people. Don't you think those are the ones you should be focusing on?