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Lord_Drago
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: Utopian Society |
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| :!?: I was wonder what people thought a utopian society would be like...I have had many ideas and would gladly share them if anybody was interested. :!?: |
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Gatz Nieblas
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 99
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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:think: hmmm, interesting question. Usually, people try pegging a utopia as a society of no competition, love everywhere, and no suffering. The fact of the matter is, this is completely unrealistic so the closest thing to a utopia for me is a extremely well-employed, heatedly competitive, free market where all have maximized liberty and are protect perfectly from coercion by their government.
It is useless to discuss that which is not of man's nature for if one is pro-human race, that invidual should look to maximize the very nature of man to his/her advantage and among those important features of man that should be maximized are independence and selfishness. |
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LostSoul3412
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8939
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: |
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"Utopian" itself is a flawed ideal.
A free society on the other hand... |
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FinnMacCool
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 2786
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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There is no such thing as a utopian society and there never will be one.
Nobody is perfect and humans aren't perfect either.
For a good idea of a Utopian society, read "Brave New World"
The irony of that utopian society is that it only became utopian by destroying happiness. Even if a utopian society could ever possibly exist, it would have to destroy the things we love so much.
Its funny cause everybody says that anarchism is utopian but I'm totally in disbelief of utopia. |
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Izzibeth
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| 1984 is also a good example. depending on which end you're on. |
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FinnMacCool
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 2786
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Izzibeth wrote: 1984 is also a good example. depending on which end you're on.
Thats not really a utopia. Thats a dystopia. THe government has perfected control, but they haven't perfected society. |
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sparsely
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 2296
Location: Passamaquoddy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Utopia is not a reality void of all things we individually dislike or find unpleasant.
Such a reality would cease to exist shortly after its own inception. |
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Lord_Drago
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| I just think a Utopian society is where everyone has a place...a socialist communist(I guess) combination...but everyone gets to vote for their leaders of course. |
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LostSoul3412
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8939
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Lord_Drago wrote: ...a socialist communist(I guess) combination...but everyone gets to vote for their leaders of course.
There are no votes in Communism.
There is Democratic Socialism, but even then the collective destroys the individual. |
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FinnMacCool
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 2786
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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LostSoul3412 wrote: Lord_Drago wrote: ...a socialist communist(I guess) combination...but everyone gets to vote for their leaders of course.
There are no votes in Communism.
There is Democratic Socialism, but even then the collective destroys the individual.
Please stop making ignorant statements. |
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Braver
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 29
Location: North America. Below Canada and Above Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I think of Utopia as a place with Job employment at near 100% for people able to work, very low crime rates etc. etc.
I wouldn't think of it as No problems, no murders etc. because without problems there is NO society. |
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Shorty
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Utopian society is simply a society where the government controls what it should, Crime, War, Peace, Employment, all that stuff. The lives of the individual people are left to themselves to bring into the Utopian standard.
That however, would be very, very difficult... A modern Utopia would be somewhere where what competition there is is friendly, not meant to be better than anyone else, and the government steps out of the peoples lives and controls only what it should, The common defense, peace on behalf of the people, and the right to tax itself... Not meaning the people, but to take from its own personal income to provide common welfare. I mean, that is part of what our forefathers tried to do... |
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taz008
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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A utopian society can never be universally realized because a utopian society is relative to each individual. One person's 'perfect' world will not be viewed as 'perfect' to at least someone in that society because people has different preferences and perspectives on the world around them. Also, we, as humans, are suceptiable to a change in opinion on our 'perfect' world or society base on the input that our 'current' society gives us.
To sum it up, every society that contains a group of people has the possability to be viewed as 'unperfect' by at lest one person. |
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Lord_Drago
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Braver makes the point I wanted to get at...But I want 100% work employment everyone has a job and that job benefits the community.
I must also make it clear that in a Utopian society I "see" there are no civilians, everyone must know how to defend themselves and fight beside the people around them...like Sweden but a cross of Sparta, every one receives military training at a young age (6). It gets more complicated than that as I go deeper into it, but you should get my point. |
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LostSoul3412
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8939
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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FinnMacCool wrote: Please stop making ignorant statements.
Please prove my ignorance. |
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The Impeacher
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2928
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Utopian Society |
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Lord_Drago wrote: :!?: I was wonder what people thought a utopian society would be like...I have had many ideas and would gladly share them if anybody was interested. :!?:
Yes, I 'd like you to share your thoughts.
My issue with utopian society is that it would require utopian people... ;)
Be that as it may, however, we must have a vision of the future before we can even attempt to make it happen. |
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mojo
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 5537
Location: Dreamland, NC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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FinnMacCool wrote: There is no such thing as a utopian society and there never will be one.
Nobody is perfect and humans aren't perfect either.
For a good idea of a Utopian society, read "Brave New World"
The irony of that utopian society is that it only became utopian by destroying happiness. Even if a utopian society could ever possibly exist, it would have to destroy the things we love so much.
Its funny cause everybody says that anarchism is utopian but I'm totally in disbelief of utopia.
Agred Brave New World is probably the best example of a utopian society.
Also definately one of Huxley's best works.
But There is something Huxley missed. He missed to ackknowledge the fact that humans need utopian dreams to maintain their humanity. My dream utopia is a place where two opposing viewpoints constantly vie for power but neither one ever overcomes.
An example would be
optimism vs. pessimism
greed vs. modesty
reason vs. unreason |
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FinnMacCool
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 2786
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
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politicalmojo wrote: FinnMacCool wrote: There is no such thing as a utopian society and there never will be one.
Nobody is perfect and humans aren't perfect either.
For a good idea of a Utopian society, read "Brave New World"
The irony of that utopian society is that it only became utopian by destroying happiness. Even if a utopian society could ever possibly exist, it would have to destroy the things we love so much.
Its funny cause everybody says that anarchism is utopian but I'm totally in disbelief of utopia.
Agred Brave New World is probably the best example of a utopian society.
Also definately one of Huxley's best works.
But There is something Huxley missed. He missed to ackknowledge the fact that humans need utopian dreams to maintain their humanity.
But what Huxley was trying to point out was that the humans living in that utopian society only created it because they lost their humanity.
Quote: My dream utopia is a place where two opposing viewpoints constantly vie for power but neither one ever overcomes.
An example would be
optimism vs. pessimism
greed vs. modesty
reason vs. unreason
If that's your dream of a utopian society, you're already living in one. |
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Rilzic
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Alb, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: |
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FinnMacCool wrote: politicalmojo wrote: FinnMacCool wrote: There is no such thing as a utopian society and there never will be one.
Nobody is perfect and humans aren't perfect either.
For a good idea of a Utopian society, read "Brave New World"
The irony of that utopian society is that it only became utopian by destroying happiness. Even if a utopian society could ever possibly exist, it would have to destroy the things we love so much.
Its funny cause everybody says that anarchism is utopian but I'm totally in disbelief of utopia.
Agred Brave New World is probably the best example of a utopian society.
Also definately one of Huxley's best works.
But There is something Huxley missed. He missed to ackknowledge the fact that humans need utopian dreams to maintain their humanity.
But what Huxley was trying to point out was that the humans living in that utopian society only created it because they lost their humanity.
Quote: My dream utopia is a place where two opposing viewpoints constantly vie for power but neither one ever overcomes.
An example would be
optimism vs. pessimism
greed vs. modesty
reason vs. unreason
If that's your dream of a utopian society, you're already living in one.
Thats why you mix 1984 with A Brave New World.
FinnMacCool wrote: But what Huxley was trying to point out was that the humans living in that utopian society only created it because they lost their humanity.
Exactly, which makes them Negative Utopia's. |
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FinnMacCool
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 2786
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand why people think 1984 was a utopia. It wasn't at all. Every single one of them still had emotions they were just suppressed and controlled through fear.
In Brave New World, their emotions are eliminated. |
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