Political Crossfire Forums

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Skywalker wrote: i have only one question to u guys...

am i stupid or that argument is extremly contradictive?!?!?!

i mean WTF?!?! he says "Every nation has the right to defend itself"... what about lebanon?? we dont have the right to defend ourselves?!?!

bush is being a hypocrit here... he really lacks some IQ... i mean he could have thought about it before and come up with something more supportive to Israel... what an idiot!

Lebanon should have called up their military to get rid of Hezbollah a long while ago. Preventive medicine, you know.

The price for harboring and accepting terrorism is obviously a bit higher than you thought, eh?

The Arab world wanted war, and now they have it.

Suck it up.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8673 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: man really u israeli are hard to argue with

We know, we know, trust me you stay on here long enough and you figure that out pretty easily, we take great pride in it. :wink:

Quote: it doesnt seem that ur using the common sense we all know...

Yet we are, and we are making the arguments to you. You just choose to dismiss them are restate your point without addressing them.

Skywalker · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 29

first of all idiot.. here in lebanon we consider hezballah a national resistance so how on earth u want the army to fight hezbollah??? plz go get informed before trying to act like a smartass...

ur signature s*cks dude as bad as u do... (free country i can say what i want _|_ )

superskippy... dismiss what u fukcing retard?? the thing is ur not making any sense... that's y we cant argue with anyone of u... take pride he says... f***ing zionist!!

i know i'll get banned for that but it was worth it and i dont have any regrets!

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8673 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: first of all idiot.. here in lebanon we consider hezballah a national resistance so how on earth u want the army to fight hezbollah??? plz go get informed before trying to act like a smartass...

ur signature s*cks dude as bad as u do... (free country i can say what i want _|_ )

Actually no you cant, this is a moderated forum. There are no personal insults allowed, if I had the energy to I could have a moderator edit out those remarks. Learn those rules fast or you will be spirited out of here rather quickly.

As for the army fighting Hezbollah, the majority of the country did not view Hezbollah as what you proclaim it to be. The fact remains that the Lebanese government had the obligation to disarm them and failed to do so.

Skywalker · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 29

yeah right... as if u live in lebanon and see the daily news... yeah ur right man... u know about my country more than i do! nice going sweetheart (do u consider that an insult? i just want to see what im allowed to use arround u sissies)..

Skywalker · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 29

yeah right... as if u live in lebanon and see the daily news... yeah ur right man... u know about my country more than i do! nice going sweetheart (do u consider that an insult? i just want to see what im allowed to use arround u sissies)..

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: here in lebanon we consider hezballah a national resistance so how on earth u want the army to fight hezbollah???

That kind of shoots the idea that Hezbollah is a separate entity in the foot.

In that case those civilians are terrorists too. Because that is what you idea of "national resistence" boils down to.

Terrorist attacks against Israel.

Suck it up cry baby, Lebanon and the rest of the Arab world got what it wanted. Do you think the Russians, Syrians, and Iranians cared what they knew would inevitably happen to Lebanese civilians when those thousands of missiles they sent to Lebanon were used for what they were intended to be used for?

You should blame them for your country's destruction instead of Israel.

They used Lebanon for a bunch of punks. They attacked Israel through their proxies and now that proxy is paying the price instead of who planned and executed the attacks.

If you were honest with yourself you would realize it was Lebanon's own fault for allowing thousands of clandestine weapons to be imported into their country and be used against Israel. There is no way to sneak that many weapons and soldiers into Lebanon without the government and the people all knowing all about it. Either they condoned it, or they participated.

There's no getting around that.

Skywalker · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 29

Russians?? u still living in the cold war??

go check again the meaning of national resistance in ur non-zionist dictionary then come and tell me about it... and the rest of what u said i wont bother arguing about it cause it's practically copy-pasted from ur other zionists friends in this forum and guess what? from bush too... i wonder from where he's getting these ideas...

Redruin · Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 924

"If you were honest with yourself you would realize it was Lebanon's own fault for allowing thousands of clandestine weapons to be imported into their country and be used against Israel. There is no way to sneak that many weapons and soldiers into Lebanon without the government and the people all knowing all about it. Either they condoned it, or they participated.

There's no getting around that."

There are a bunch of other threads detailing why this line of reasoning is faulty. But to repeat, briefly, Lebanon's population and government cannot be blamed; Israel could not disband Hezbollah in southern Lebanon over the duration of their 18 year occupation. After they left, the Syrians ran the show for another few years, and it is probably during this time the majority of the arms were delivered to Hezbollah. The current Lebanese government, which we only recently hailed as a model of success, has only been in power for a little over a year - hardly enough time to disarm Hezbollah. The Lebanese people should not be held accountable for a crime Hezbollah committed. If your neighbor commits a heinous crime would you be content to see the police flatten your house, your neighborhood, your city, or even your entire nation, to take him out?

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

let me ask you people these

maybe hizbuallah chose the wrong way to get rid of jews from their country, but after the attacks on lebanon, doesn't it seem right for hizbuallah to fight back for lebanon, since the army men are hiding in shelters? what if hizbullah didn't have any rockets and stuff, but they still kidnapped the soldiers, would the jew still attack people who are civilians?

as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

i hope you give me convincing answers with sources or your reply will be ignored....

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8673 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

Hezbollah has no ground to stand on when it says it bears arms to protect itself from Israeli attack. It has been 6 years since we were in Lebanon and have made no move to enter it since. Hezbollah acted in aggression and war, they have no argument to say those weapons are for protection.

Hezbollah was the only group from the civil war who decided to hold onto their arms and muscle their way into power.

X-Shocker · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 167 Location: All around you

Muslima wrote: let me ask you people these

maybe hizbuallah chose the wrong way to get rid of jews from their country,

Not just "maybe", but hizbuallah is very WRONG.

Quote: what if hizbullah didn't have any rockets and stuff, but they still kidnapped the soldiers, would the jew still attack people who are civilians?

First of all, kidnapping the soldiers will result in the same actions whether hizbullah has "rockets and stuff" or not.

Secondly, "the Jew" did not "attack people who are civilians". Israel attacked Hezbullah. It is the civilians fault for not leaving the cities as warned by Israel.

Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them?

Actually, Israel wants the kidnapped soldiers.

Quote: will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

The US is not support any terroristic countries: Israel is not a terrorist country.

Quote: i hope you give me convincing answers with sources or your reply will be ignored....

You have to be willing to listen when the truth is knocking at your eardrums.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

superskippy wrote: Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

Hezbollah has no ground to stand on when it says it bears arms to protect itself from Israeli attack. It has been 6 years since we were in Lebanon and have made no move to enter it since. Hezbollah acted in aggression and war, they have no argument to say those weapons are for protection.

Hezbollah was the only group from the civil war who decided to hold onto their arms and muscle their way into power.

i decided not to ignore.......

don't include the civil war because i am interested in now not yesterday....
even if they weren't for protection, they are to stop you from killing babies.......for god's sake, i think you people are as anybody else who cares to see their children growing, yet you keep killing innocent children who don't eben know who hibuallah or nassurallah is........you kill them and it is a mistake, hizbullah defends but they are terrorists?

that is totallu unfair equation!

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

Quote: Not just "maybe", but hizbuallah is very WRONG.

in your view, not everybody's.....

Quote: First of all, kidnapping the soldiers will result in the same actions whether hizbullah has "rockets and stuff" or not.

Secondly, "the Jew" did not "attack people who are civilians". Israel attacked Hezbullah. It is the civilians fault for not leaving the cities as warned by Israel.

really? the civilians fault? how do you want them to leave when the annoying fly-like rockets are raining on them? how do you want them to leave when everything moving is being targeted? how do you want them to leave when there is no safe way to leave? how do you want them to leave when they are under rocks and concrete? how do you want them to leave when they don't have a transportation? how do you want them to leave when they are being targeted during the leaving?

do you want to go on? coz it will never end.....

Quote: Actually, Israel wants the kidnapped soldiers.

i doubt that....

Quote: The US is not support any terroristic countries: Israel is not a terrorist country.

US is supporting isreal. maybe they are not, but their actions surely are....

Quote: You have to be willing to listen when the truth is knocking at your eardrums.

i am willing to listen and as i a proof i responded to you.....

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8673 Location: Petah Tikva

Muslima wrote: superskippy wrote: Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

Hezbollah has no ground to stand on when it says it bears arms to protect itself from Israeli attack. It has been 6 years since we were in Lebanon and have made no move to enter it since. Hezbollah acted in aggression and war, they have no argument to say those weapons are for protection.

Hezbollah was the only group from the civil war who decided to hold onto their arms and muscle their way into power.

i decided not to ignore.......

don't include the civil war because i am interested in now not yesterday....
even if they weren't for protection, they are to stop you from killing babies.......for god's sake, i think you people are as anybody else who cares to see their children growing, yet you keep killing innocent children who don't eben know who hibuallah or nassurallah is........you kill them and it is a mistake, hizbullah defends but they are terrorists?

that is totallu unfair equation!

Ok fine your not interested in the civil war, that is fine. How can you justify Hezbollah's attacks then? Self defence? Defence against what? We left the country 6 damn years ago, and all Hezbollah has done is given us reasons for why we shouldnt have left.

mai · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Dubai

superskippy wrote: Muslima wrote: superskippy wrote: Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

Hezbollah has no ground to stand on when it says it bears arms to protect itself from Israeli attack. It has been 6 years since we were in Lebanon and have made no move to enter it since. Hezbollah acted in aggression and war, they have no argument to say those weapons are for protection.

Hezbollah was the only group from the civil war who decided to hold onto their arms and muscle their way into power.

i decided not to ignore.......

don't include the civil war because i am interested in now not yesterday....
even if they weren't for protection, they are to stop you from killing babies.......for god's sake, i think you people are as anybody else who cares to see their children growing, yet you keep killing innocent children who don't eben know who hibuallah or nassurallah is........you kill them and it is a mistake, hizbullah defends but they are terrorists?

that is totallu unfair equation!

Ok fine your not interested in the civil war, that is fine. How can you justify Hezbollah's attacks then? Self defence? Defence against what? We left the country 6 damn years ago, and all Hezbollah has done is given us reasons for why we shouldnt have left.

The issue here is not justfying Hizbulla's actions, it's condemning Israel's approach in this war. Must there be so many casualties? You said so yourself, that around a hundrend millitants have been killed, which only means that most of them, the other 300, were innocent civilians. Yes, you left the country 6 years ago, with the satisfaction of the lebanese people and their acceptance of israel as a neighbour. However, Hezbulla, attacked and kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers for their own reasons; it wanted their prisoners back. Now im not saying that Israel is all to blame here, but, Hizbulla is not the representative of the lebanese people and they must not pay the price of a war they never wanted.

thatisnotme · Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 452

mai wrote: ...Hizbulla is not the representative of the lebanese people and they must not pay the price of a war they never wanted.

Imagine a fringe group using Canadian soil to attack the US, and the Canadian government doing absolutely nothing about. Do you think that the US would tolerate that? Don't you think for one minute that the US would not hesitate to bomb whatever it thought it need to do in order to destroy that fringe group, even if in those attacks innocent Canadians might be killed? Same thing with Israel and Lebanon. The Lebanese government, by not acting in every possible way to stop or disarm Hezbollah, is guilty of what Hezbolla has done to Israel.

SpartanPhalanx · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2198 Location: 3rd rock

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: here in lebanon we consider hezballah a national resistance so how on earth u want the army to fight hezbollah???

That kind of shoots the idea that Hezbollah is a separate entity in the foot.

In that case those civilians are terrorists too. Because that is what you idea of "national resistence" boils down to.

Terrorist attacks against Israel.

Suck it up cry baby, Lebanon and the rest of the Arab world got what it wanted. Do you think the Russians, Syrians, and Iranians cared what they knew would inevitably happen to Lebanese civilians when those thousands of missiles they sent to Lebanon were used for what they were intended to be used for?

You should blame them for your country's destruction instead of Israel.

They used Lebanon for a bunch of punks. They attacked Israel through their proxies and now that proxy is paying the price instead of who planned and executed the attacks.

If you were honest with yourself you would realize it was Lebanon's own fault for allowing thousands of clandestine weapons to be imported into their country and be used against Israel. There is no way to sneak that many weapons and soldiers into Lebanon without the government and the people all knowing all about it. Either they condoned it, or they participated.

There's no getting around that.

Sorry Cap'n, but you're WAY off base. If Israel has the right to self defence, so does Lebanon. You cannot victimize a people who have already been brutalised by Israel. You conveniently forget that Hezbollah was created as a direct result from Israeli attrocities back in 1982 to the tune of almost 20,000 dead men, women and children. Yes, Israeli State Terror gave birth to Hezbollah. You cannot argue your point by omiting most of the story and the root causes for Hezbollah's existence. You cannot demonize and lable one party as terrorist while omiting the very reasons for resistance to Isreal.....That is simply not logical.

SpartanPhalanx · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2198 Location: 3rd rock

mai wrote: superskippy wrote: Muslima wrote: superskippy wrote: Quote: as for the law or whatever 1559, if hizbuallah agreed to give in all their weapons, which everybody here knows perfectly that it won't happen, will the lebanese, specifically, and palest's get the guarantee that isreal won't keep attacking them? will the US stopp supporting the terror on lebanon? will the US stop providing israel with lasered bombs?

Hezbollah has no ground to stand on when it says it bears arms to protect itself from Israeli attack. It has been 6 years since we were in Lebanon and have made no move to enter it since. Hezbollah acted in aggression and war, they have no argument to say those weapons are for protection.

Hezbollah was the only group from the civil war who decided to hold onto their arms and muscle their way into power.

i decided not to ignore.......

don't include the civil war because i am interested in now not yesterday....
even if they weren't for protection, they are to stop you from killing babies.......for god's sake, i think you people are as anybody else who cares to see their children growing, yet you keep killing innocent children who don't eben know who hibuallah or nassurallah is........you kill them and it is a mistake, hizbullah defends but they are terrorists?

that is totallu unfair equation!

Ok fine your not interested in the civil war, that is fine. How can you justify Hezbollah's attacks then? Self defence? Defence against what? We left the country 6 damn years ago, and all Hezbollah has done is given us reasons for why we shouldnt have left.

The issue here is not justfying Hizbulla's actions, it's condemning Israel's approach in this war. Must there be so many casualties? You said so yourself, that around a hundrend millitants have been killed, which only means that most of them, the other 300, were innocent civilians. Yes, you left the country 6 years ago, with the satisfaction of the lebanese people and their acceptance of israel as a neighbour. However, Hezbulla, attacked and kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers for their own reasons; it wanted their prisoners back. Now im not saying that Israel is all to blame here, but, Hizbulla is not the representative of the lebanese people and they must not pay the price of a war they never wanted.

Also don't forget the issue of the Israeli occupation of Shebaa Farms. Both Lebanon and Syria have been pursuing legal avenues for the return of this territory to Lebanon to no avail. Israel cannot expect peace and calm when it consistently ignores and flouts laws while at the same time choosing to enforce laws which are in its interestes.(UNSC 1559)

There is still a de-facto occupation of territory not belonging to Israel. There are still Lebanese political prisoners who have not been returned to Lebanon.

If Israel want honest discourse and dimplomacy it has to clean up ITS OWN ACT before lecturing others about theirs.
This is the root of the problem in its dealings with Lebanon, Syria(Golan Heights) and the Palestinian issue.

Dictat by force, which is the only way Israel has employed for decades in an attempt to enforce its own interests accomplishes nothing and Israel still has not learned that lesson in over 50 years of its existence.

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

superskippy wrote: Ok fine your not interested in the civil war, that is fine. How can you justify Hezbollah's attacks then? Self defence? Defence against what? We left the country 6 damn years ago, and all Hezbollah has done is given us reasons for why we shouldnt have left.

even though i support what mai and spartan had to say, i would like to remind you skippy that the civilains are innocent.

i am not arguing who is to blame, nor am i starting a request to as a weak person, you must be educated and civilised yourself, so must look into things with rationality.

i am arguing with you very politely and rationaly, even though i am a muslim in the first place and you what that means.

what if the situation was reversed? if your army kidnapped two from hizbuallah, and you had the weapons that hizbuallah has only, and hizbuallah was in your place with the rockets and others and they were the ones throwing and destroying and killing. wouldn't they be stopped in one day? the US wouldn't have used the veto. hizbuallah are going to be condemened and even worse. so why is it when you are killing civilians, you are not listening to anybody to stop? why does bush say you have the right to defend yourself, while the lebanese have nothing to defend themselves with? why in this war the US decided to for a new ME, even though it is none of her business and she knows it will only create more and more problems? why is it when hizbuallah is defending its land they are terrorists and when you are occupying the shibaa for years you are not terrorists?

i could go on, you know........but i am looking for a very convincing answer, which is written with rationality.