Political Crossfire Forums

[Pleonasmus]

I'm going to have to say China, because it still exists under a different name sure they say they are communist now, but chinese comunism died with Mao it was a short lived experiment and when he died things went back to business as usual a large bureaucracy runs the country from a central ruling city, its bejing now and has been before but as much as details change China changes little in basic structure it is the oldest empire in the world, It introduced more technologies then any other from, stainless steel,gun powder, paper, flamethrower,clear glass,silk,taxes,crop rotation,passports, birth certificates, the list goes on and on. But the greatest achievement of the chines empire is stability and peace. In fact it;s been so successfully most people don't know how ethnically diverse china is most people think it is a homogeneous culture because it's been so successfully in binding people together with a common identity.

[XiangYu]

wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer...... What the Heck are you talking about? If it disintegrates, and parts of the empire engage in separatist movements, then it no longer holds onto as much territory as it once did. So, there...

[XiangYu]

Pleonasmus wrote: I'm going to have to say China, because it still exists under a different name sure they say they are communist now, but chinese comunism died with Mao it was a short lived experiment and when he died things went back to business as usual a large bureaucracy runs the country from a central ruling city, its bejing now and has been before but as much as details change China changes little in basic structure it is the oldest empire in the world, It introduced more technologies then any other from, stainless steel,gun powder, paper, flamethrower,clear glass,silk,taxes,crop rotation,passports, birth certificates, the list goes on and on. But the greatest achievement of the chines empire is stability and peace. In fact it;s been so successfully most people don't know how ethnically diverse china is most people think it is a homogeneous culture because it's been so successfully in binding people together with a common identity. Of course China has a diverse ethnic and cultural makeup. IF you look at chinese history, in between the most Successful dynasties, China actually broke up into dozens of individual Kingdoms, each with their own language and culture. But after the breakup one group manages to bind the entire region under Common Rule, almost always with violence.

As for cultures and kingdoms that has lasted the test of time, I would also put the Persians (Iran) and Egyptians (Egypt) under that list.

[pikers]

skylance wrote: GOP (Grand Old Patriots) wrote: Without a doubt, the Roman Empire was the greatest of all time,

why Rome and Greece are great?
because they succeeded developed mideast's culture.

why Rome and Greece kept different political system?
because their babarian tribe' society structure.

that's true history and nature.

"anti-western"?no,God roll,you get the small number,but the rule is "the smallest win".
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I just want to tell Mr.Bush to stop his foolish "expanding democracy plan"
democracy isn't a gift from God,just a gift from long time babarian's lives.
:ah:

I knew that a barely-literate post would end in a Bush diatribe of some sort. :roll:

[pikers]

Melcar wrote: wannabe wrote: Melcar wrote: Siberian Fox wrote: antonio62 wrote: Probably Britain. It did some pretty evil things but every other empire was just as bad (most not on the same scale but still as evil) and they did some brilliant things.

Everyone seems to be overlooking the Islamic empire of the middle ages. Not the best but deserves a mention. Did some brilliant work advancing almost everything and preserving others knowledge.

I agree, the Arabs developed 0,along with other mathematical achievements, and advances in medical studies including the human anatomy. But I still do not think that they are the best.

Well, without the Arabs Europe would have really been in a Dark Age. The true contribution of the Arab empires was that they kept the civilizations of the world in contact with on another. One can even go as far as claim that the Arabs kept civilization itself alive during the Middle Ages.
Funny how many of the mathematical and astronomical (or should I say astrological?) achievements of the time where also being developed an ocean away in a continent soon to be labeled as backward and savage by Europeans.

the Arabs virtually destroyed the Eastern-Roman empire, they were the last big push that brought on the Dark-ages.......sure their civilization was advanced, but not more-so then the Greeks or Persians they replaced.


Both the Roman and Persian kingdoms were becoming very decadent. The fact that both of them were overcomed by the Arabs shows this. One cannot deny the Arab culture and peoples importance as the treaders of wealth and knowledge in those times. They linked the East with the dying West.

I see the Arabs of the time as a civilization that had an overwhelming desire to destroy a superior civilization, to assimilate things they could not achieve on their own.

2,000 years later, and the ME is in the same situation is was then.

[Melcar]

pikers wrote: Melcar wrote: wannabe wrote: Melcar wrote: Siberian Fox wrote: antonio62 wrote: Probably Britain. It did some pretty evil things but every other empire was just as bad (most not on the same scale but still as evil) and they did some brilliant things.

Everyone seems to be overlooking the Islamic empire of the middle ages. Not the best but deserves a mention. Did some brilliant work advancing almost everything and preserving others knowledge.

I agree, the Arabs developed 0,along with other mathematical achievements, and advances in medical studies including the human anatomy. But I still do not think that they are the best.

Well, without the Arabs Europe would have really been in a Dark Age. The true contribution of the Arab empires was that they kept the civilizations of the world in contact with on another. One can even go as far as claim that the Arabs kept civilization itself alive during the Middle Ages.
Funny how many of the mathematical and astronomical (or should I say astrological?) achievements of the time where also being developed an ocean away in a continent soon to be labeled as backward and savage by Europeans.

the Arabs virtually destroyed the Eastern-Roman empire, they were the last big push that brought on the Dark-ages.......sure their civilization was advanced, but not more-so then the Greeks or Persians they replaced.


Both the Roman and Persian kingdoms were becoming very decadent. The fact that both of them were overcomed by the Arabs shows this. One cannot deny the Arab culture and peoples importance as the treaders of wealth and knowledge in those times. They linked the East with the dying West.

I see the Arabs of the time as a civilization that had an overwhelming desire to destroy a superior civilization, to assimilate things they could not achieve on their own.

2,000 years later, and the ME is in the same situation is was then.

The Arab civilization was no different than any other civilization of the time. All it wanted was to expand and take control, the same as the Romans and Persians before them. The fact remains that the Arabs of old had a big impact on Western culture (and to the East to some extent) that is still evident to this day. Do not judge an entire civilization for the fanaticism of a few. And by the way, the reason the ME is the way it is is mostly because of Western interference in the region.

[skylance]

pikers wrote: skylance wrote: GOP (Grand Old Patriots) wrote: Without a doubt, the Roman Empire was the greatest of all time,

why Rome and Greece are great?
because they succeeded developed mideast's culture.

why Rome and Greece kept different political system?
because their babarian tribe' society structure.

that's true history and nature.

"anti-western"?no,God roll,you get the small number,but the rule is "the smallest win".
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I just want to tell Mr.Bush to stop his foolish "expanding democracy plan"
democracy isn't a gift from God,just a gift from long time babarian's lives.
:ah:

I knew that a barely-literate post would end in a Bush diatribe of some sort. :roll:

:think: oh,I don't care about Bush,I am interested in history,and ask myself "why democracy isn't working in other places?"for a long time.
even in India(which is well colonized and westernized).

and my answer is :"modern democracy" is the mixture of west Europe 's unique geography、history and culture.

Japan has similiar historical experience and society structure with Europe.
yes,when Japan imported Chinese culture to be civilized, Japan kept or created the nobility because of the political specific of babarian tribe.

any independant civilization centres cann't have the same step,because higher level civilization means Monanchy.

Korea, China Taiwan ,Singapore's making depend more on traditional centralization than western ideas.
BTW,they are small to be influenced and managed in the U.S's power circle.

so,I just find the basis of the U.S foreign affairs is not reliable.

[Kumar]

Limey Boosk wrote: British empire.

1 Magna carta. Democracy. everyone equal.
lol

You must mean all whites equal.

[antonio62]

pikers wrote: I see the Arabs of the time as a civilization that had an overwhelming desire to destroy a superior civilization, to assimilate things they could not achieve on their own.

2,000 years later, and the ME is in the same situation is was then.

The Islamic empires greatness began before they'd conquered that much. They were a far superior culture at the time than any Christian culture ever has been. Just think what the world would be like if the Islamic empire hadn't existed. There would probably have been no renaissance if one did happen it wouldn't be nearly as advancing as it was.

[lovebush]

wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

[antonio62]

lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

[lovebush]

antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?

[The Comrade]

lovebush wrote: antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?


essentially ALL of englands colonies were given their independance.

[DSwain]

lovebush wrote: antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?

Britain was unusual in its withdrawl from empire in that we didn't fight to cling on anywhere, unlike France, Portugal and the Netherlands. In the most significant 'end of empire' conflict we fought - in Malaya - we'd already planned to give the country independence but we stuck around to see off a Chinese Communist take over. In fact, Malaysia was created in 1957 and British and Commonwealth forces remained in the country until 1961 helping the new government see off the terrorists. The 1948-1961 'Malaya Emergency' is an example of a guerilla army being totally beaten.

Granted, there was fighting elsewhere at the end of empire, most notably in Kenya, Aden and Cyprus - but the fighting was always about which government/power would take over once we'd left, not about Britain fighting to remain as the French did in Algeria and the Portuguese in Mozambique. This is not to knock other European countries, it's just the way things played out.

[lovebush]

DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote: antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?

Britain was unusual in its withdrawl from empire in that we didn't fight to cling on anywhere, unlike France, Portugal and the Netherlands. In the most significant 'end of empire' conflict we fought - in Malaya - we'd already planned to give the country independence but we stuck around to see off a Chinese Communist take over. In fact, Malaysia was created in 1957 and British and Commonwealth forces remained in the country until 1961 helping the new government see off the terrorists. The 1948-1961 'Malaya Emergency' is an example of a guerilla army being totally beaten.

Granted, there was fighting elsewhere at the end of empire, most notably in Kenya, Aden and Cyprus - but the fighting was always about which government/power would take over once we'd left, not about Britain fighting to remain as the French did in Algeria and the Portuguese in Mozambique. This is not to knock other European countries, it's just the way things played out.


didnt fight to cling on anywhere? America??

[DSwain]

lovebush wrote: DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote: antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?

Britain was unusual in its withdrawl from empire in that we didn't fight to cling on anywhere, unlike France, Portugal and the Netherlands. In the most significant 'end of empire' conflict we fought - in Malaya - we'd already planned to give the country independence but we stuck around to see off a Chinese Communist take over. In fact, Malaysia was created in 1957 and British and Commonwealth forces remained in the country until 1961 helping the new government see off the terrorists. The 1948-1961 'Malaya Emergency' is an example of a guerilla army being totally beaten.

Granted, there was fighting elsewhere at the end of empire, most notably in Kenya, Aden and Cyprus - but the fighting was always about which government/power would take over once we'd left, not about Britain fighting to remain as the French did in Algeria and the Portuguese in Mozambique. This is not to knock other European countries, it's just the way things played out.


didnt fight to cling on anywhere? America??

We're talking about the end of empire period here, so from the end of WW2 really (the date is moveable, some estimate it as 1947 with Indian independence, some 1956 with Suez, some 1957 with Ghanian independence, some 1960 with Macmillan's Winds of Change Speech). Ironically of course it was the end of British rule in the American colonies (following our clinging on) that spurred us on to secure India and a quarter of the world.

[lovebush]

DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote: DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote: antonio62 wrote: lovebush wrote: wannabe wrote: lovebush wrote: thundertaker wrote: British, obviously. The spread of liberty and democracy is a direct result of the British Empire....

you mean a direct result of its desintegration.

hardly.....if anything the empire's breakdown made them hold onto territory longer......


but they didnt become democratic until they won their freedom.

In most cases they didn't win it they were given it.

hey I dont want to sound like Im dumping on the British I like them in spite of their snooty dislike of Americans :-D . back to the topic. What are some examples of country's given their Independence? would you consider India to be on that list?

Britain was unusual in its withdrawl from empire in that we didn't fight to cling on anywhere, unlike France, Portugal and the Netherlands. In the most significant 'end of empire' conflict we fought - in Malaya - we'd already planned to give the country independence but we stuck around to see off a Chinese Communist take over. In fact, Malaysia was created in 1957 and British and Commonwealth forces remained in the country until 1961 helping the new government see off the terrorists. The 1948-1961 'Malaya Emergency' is an example of a guerilla army being totally beaten.

Granted, there was fighting elsewhere at the end of empire, most notably in Kenya, Aden and Cyprus - but the fighting was always about which government/power would take over once we'd left, not about Britain fighting to remain as the French did in Algeria and the Portuguese in Mozambique. This is not to knock other European countries, it's just the way things played out.


didnt fight to cling on anywhere? America??

We're talking about the end of empire period here, so from the end of WW2 really (the date is moveable, some estimate it as 1947 with Indian independence, some 1956 with Suez, some 1957 with Ghanian independence, some 1960 with Macmillan's Winds of Change Speech). Ironically of course it was the end of British rule in the American colonies (following our clinging on) that spurred us on to secure India and a quarter of the world.



when you say secure India, Do you mean"cling on"? I do give you credit for your many years of war with the french :-D . that heroin thing with China was not a proud bit of history, but we have a few of those of our own.

[DSwain]

lovebush wrote:
when you say secure India, Do you mean"cling on"? I do give you credit for your many years of war with the french :-D . that heroin thing with China was not a proud bit of history, but we have a few of those of our own.

I shouldn't call nearly 200 years of hegemony 'clinging on'; that's perillously close to the age of your country isn't it? :wink:

[lovebush]

DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote:
when you say secure India, Do you mean"cling on"? I do give you credit for your many years of war with the french :-D . that heroin thing with China was not a proud bit of history, but we have a few of those of our own.

I shouldn't call nearly 200 years of hegemony 'clinging on'; that's perillously close to the age of your country isn't it? :wink:


Well alright since the empire of the British did spawn the greatest nation on Earth, I will concede that it has had the greatest impact and therefore was the greatest empire. May God bless America and her best friend across the pond.

[DSwain]

lovebush wrote: DSwain wrote: lovebush wrote:
when you say secure India, Do you mean"cling on"? I do give you credit for your many years of war with the french :-D . that heroin thing with China was not a proud bit of history, but we have a few of those of our own.

I shouldn't call nearly 200 years of hegemony 'clinging on'; that's perillously close to the age of your country isn't it? :wink:


Well alright since the empire of the British did spawn the greatest nation on Earth, I will concede that it has had the greatest impact and therefore was the greatest empire. May God bless America and her best friend across the pond.

Whatever credit the British Empire can take for the United States must rank amongst the greatest achievements of that empire.