Political Crossfire Forums

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Israel is literally closing down Lebanon slowly. If you look at it, Lebanon will be locked down soon completely:

- The main airport in the country has already been severely damaged.
- The ports are still semi-operational and at the moment, all the people who can escape the country are getting out and going to Cyprus while they can. Soon, however, Israel will tighten its naval blockade shutting off all the port activities. Israel has already bombed some ports.
- Some bridges and Roads in the Southern Lebanon are being wiped out with precise air attacks, which will make movement very difficult.

This will bring the entire country to a halt and we can see an economic melt down in Lebanon in the near future.

Quote: Israel bombards Beirut's port and airport

At least 23 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon today as the violence there shows no signs of easing. Israel has dismissed talk of sending an international force to southern Lebanon to help end Hezbollah rocket attacks as premature and continued to bombard the country's infrastructure. Beirut's port and international airport came under attack. Petrol stations and factories elsewhere were also hit. Israel's military campaign, launched after Hezbollah captured two of its soldiers, has resulted in the loss of lives of some 176 Lebanese - all but 13 of them civilians.

http://euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=369852&lng=1

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: London

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Israel is literally closing down Lebanon slowly. If you look at it, Lebanon will be locked down soon completely:

- The main airport in the country has already been severely damaged.
- The ports are still semi-operational and at the moment, all the people who can escape the country are getting out and going to Cyprus while they can. Soon, however, Israel will tighten its naval blockade shutting off all the port activities. Israel has already bombed some ports.
- Some bridges and Roads in the Southern Lebanon are being wiped out with precise air attacks, which will make movement very difficult.

This will bring the entire country to a halt and we can see an economic melt down in Lebanon in the near future.

Quote: Israel bombards Beirut's port and airport

At least 23 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon today as the violence there shows no signs of easing. Israel has dismissed talk of sending an international force to southern Lebanon to help end Hezbollah rocket attacks as premature and continued to bombard the country's infrastructure. Beirut's port and international airport came under attack. Petrol stations and factories elsewhere were also hit. Israel's military campaign, launched after Hezbollah captured two of its soldiers, has resulted in the loss of lives of some 176 Lebanese - all but 13 of them civilians.

http://euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=369852&lng=1

How this halts Hizbollah takes a smarter man than me to decipher, because if there is method to this madness, I cant see it.
But only time will tell, who is right and who got it wrong. Also saying this country is being crippled by Israel is a understatement.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Plato & Socrates wrote: How this halts Hizbollah takes a smarter man than me to decipher, because if there is method to this madness, I cant see it.
But only time will tell, who is right and who got it wrong.

This is NOT going to stop Hezbollah because destroying Hezbollah is outside Israel's power. Rather, these move are designed to transform Hezbollah from the supreme ruler of the Southern Lebanon into an insurgensy group that will be less of a long term threat to Israel's security. Lebanon as an insurgent group can only fire a few rockets at Israel and engage in low intensity fights. So, as long as Israel does not occupy Lebanon, Hezbollah as an insurgent group is rather harmless.

TacticalSniper · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

Simple. Israel cuts down ways for Hezbollah to take away our soldiers and cuts Hezbollah's supply lines. Right now they can't get any more rockets into the country and South Lebanon. And it works, as Hezbollah been decreasing shootings into Israel in the past days.

See? That simple.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1647 Location: UK / Hungary

TacticalSniper wrote: Simple. Israel cuts down ways for Hezbollah to take away our soldiers and cuts Hezbollah's supply lines. Right now they can't get any more rockets into the country and South Lebanon. And it works, as Hezbollah been decreasing shootings into Israel in the past days.

See? That simple.

Yes, isn't it!!! Sadly they won't see this as they are blinded by their hatred of Israel the US and any other country that takes a stand against terrorism!!

TacticalSniper · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject:

Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: London

TacticalSniper wrote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.

My my, what confidence. I'm going to constantly remind you of this little post in the weeks and months to come.

TacticalSniper · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject:

Please, do. Your point being?

Communalknighthood · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada

What people don't seem to understand about this conflict is the ethical questions. Many western leaders have argued that Israel has a right to defend its self. But, who is defending Palestine. They have no army, they have no real state. 60 years of dislocation, suffering and oppression has created a militant population. And Israel has a right to exist?

Also, terrorism appears to overshadow the crimes against the Palestinian people. Consider the military as nothing more then a state-sanctioned terrorist unit, what exactly makes military force legitimate? And how is it different from terrorism?

jimmyz · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:

Plato & Socrates wrote: TacticalSniper wrote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.

My my, what confidence. I'm going to constantly remind you of this little post in the weeks and months to come.

Still hoping for the best in the future I see Plato... :roll:

Would be good for your point if hostilities carried on for Quote: weeks and months to come
^shrug^

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Communalknighthood wrote: What people don't seem to understand about this conflict is the ethical questions. Many western leaders have argued that Israel has a right to defend its self. But, who is defending Palestine.

Who is defending Palestine?

No one that's in their right mind. Why would anyone need to defend Palestine if they didn't dig a tunnel under the border and kidnap someone.

No one would need to if they wouldn't have started shooting rockets into Israel within a week after the Israelis withdrew from Gaza.

And ultimately no one would need to defend them if the Arab League didn't try to destroy Israel in 1948, less than 24 hours after the nation was restored.

2 million "Palestinians" (Arabs) live in Israel as citizens. You know whose defending them right now from the folks attacking Israel for the thousandth time?

The IDF.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: London

jimmyz wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: TacticalSniper wrote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.

My my, what confidence. I'm going to constantly remind you of this little post in the weeks and months to come.

Still hoping for the best in the future I see Plato... :roll:

Would be good for your point if hostilities carried on for Quote: weeks and months to come
^shrug^

My point being is that who-ever thinks this latest Israeli bombing campaign is going to stop Hizbollah is quite frankly potty.
Tactical snipers optimism coupled with his comment...
Quote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.
As i said time will judge. Personally I will be more than happy to see Hizbollah lay down arms and stop lobby those rockets. But after this latest Israeli move? No way can I see them doing this, except escalate this latest crisis.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Plato & Socrates wrote: jimmyz wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: TacticalSniper wrote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.

My my, what confidence. I'm going to constantly remind you of this little post in the weeks and months to come.

Still hoping for the best in the future I see Plato... :roll:

Would be good for your point if hostilities carried on for Quote: weeks and months to come
^shrug^

My point being is that who-ever thinks this latest Israeli bombing campaign is going to stop Hizbollah is quite frankly potty.
Tactical snipers optimism coupled with his comment...
Quote: Well, you don't even have to not-hate Israel to see that. Simple military tactics used in every war.
As i said time will judge. Personally I will be more than happy to see Hizbollah lay down arms and stop lobby those rockets. But after this latest Israeli move? No way.

So if Israel wouldn't have defended itself, do you think Hezbollah would have ever stopped launching them?

Until they ran out of missiles, that is.

TacticalSniper · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject:

It's true. Hezbollah would get more and more resources from Syria and Iran. I agree with Plato that time will judge. However, what is not really reported in Western media, as far as I've seen, is that Nasrallah is in serious trouble here. Many Lebanese people don't believe him any more, because he failed to protect him. Except Syria and Iran, who unofficially support them, every other country in the region condemned Hezbollah actions and called for disarming them. Hezbollah's military abilities been seriously hurt, as IAF is more and more victorious. In first days Hezbollah could say Israel only attacks civilians, but right now, that civilian casualties are becoming lower and lower, as civilians flee the bombing areas, the only one who gets hurt is Hezbollah.

Plato, I still didn't understand why do you highlight this quote of mine. Yes, cutting off supply lines is one of the first things you learn during tactics and strategy studies. Israel does it fairly well, and now the firing into Israel subsides.

Communalknighthood, Palestinians were offered a state, they rejected it with war. If you think Palestinian terrorists aren't trained - you don't know what you're talking about. In 2001 there were about 70,000 armed men among Palestinians - they are protecting themselves. Palestinians' suffering is their own fault, as they were offered peace, lands, money and many help from all around the world. They took it and continued fighting. And last but not least - difference between IDF and Palestinian terrorists? If you'll read interviews with captured suicide bombers, you'll see that they were trying to find a place with as many civilians as possible to blow them up. Basically - IDF targets terrorists (quite well, actually), Palestinians target civilians.

Zoot · Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 2184

cap'n queasy wrote: Communalknighthood wrote: What people don't seem to understand about this conflict is the ethical questions. Many western leaders have argued that Israel has a right to defend its self. But, who is defending Palestine.

Who is defending Palestine?

No one that's in their right mind. Why would anyone need to defend Palestine if they didn't dig a tunnel under the border and kidnap someone.

In response to a doctor and his son being kidnapped by IDF troops.

Quote: No one would need to if they wouldn't have started shooting rockets into Israel within a week after the Israelis withdrew from Gaza.

Rockets that killed fewer civilians in four years than this latest IDF push killed in the first four days.

Quote: 2 million "Palestinians" (Arabs) live in Israel as citizens. You know whose defending them right now from the folks attacking Israel for the thousandth time?

The IDF.

Which includes Arab Israelis, surely.

TacticalSniper · Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject:

IDF does not include Israeli Arabs, who in 99.9 percent do not join the IDF, unlike Droozes and Bedouins.

Zoot wrote: In response to a doctor and his son being kidnapped by IDF troops.

Where did you take that BS from? Even the Palestinians never used it as a reason, they used the fake killing of the family on the beach as an excuse. Also, even if they did use it as a reason, it took at least several months to make the tunnel, so it couldn't be used as an excuse anyway.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: Which includes Arab Israelis, surely.

Yes Arab Israelis sometimes volunteer and they do form some very solid hardcore regiments.

Communalknighthood · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada

cap'n queasy wrote: Communalknighthood wrote: What people don't seem to understand about this conflict is the ethical questions. Many western leaders have argued that Israel has a right to defend its self. But, who is defending Palestine.

Who is defending Palestine?

No one that's in their right mind. Why would anyone need to defend Palestine if they didn't dig a tunnel under the border and kidnap someone.

No one would need to if they wouldn't have started shooting rockets into Israel within a week after the Israelis withdrew from Gaza.

And ultimately no one would need to defend them if the Arab League didn't try to destroy Israel in 1948, less than 24 hours after the nation was restored.

2 million "Palestinians" (Arabs) live in Israel as citizens. You know whose defending them right now from the folks attacking Israel for the thousandth time?

The IDF.

Look back further in history, the Zionists began the conflict. Palestinians only see their actions as defending their own people. Because like I said they have no army or state, Israel deprived them of it.

Think a little deeper!!!

maalox · Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 133 Location: above u

TacticalSniper wrote: Simple. Israel cuts down ways for Hezbollah to take away our soldiers and cuts Hezbollah's supply lines. Right now they can't get any more rockets into the country and South Lebanon. And it works, as Hezbollah been decreasing shootings into Israel in the past days.

See? That simple.

man ur such an ignorant

hezbollah has like a rocket for every Israelian

hezbollah DOES NOT need airport , port , nore highways to get his supplies of rockets

they are fabricating theire own rockets now u doss

everything u hear is a part of the AMERICAN PROPAGANDA

it`s a filthy exuse zioniste use to destroy lebanon

israel always want lebanon to be ruined

check this out

www.fromisraeltolebanon.org

Communalknighthood · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada

TacticalSniper wrote: It's true. Hezbollah would get more and more resources from Syria and Iran. I agree with Plato that time will judge. However, what is not really reported in Western media, as far as I've seen, is that Nasrallah is in serious trouble here. Many Lebanese people don't believe him any more, because he failed to protect him. Except Syria and Iran, who unofficially support them, every other country in the region condemned Hezbollah actions and called for disarming them. Hezbollah's military abilities been seriously hurt, as IAF is more and more victorious. In first days Hezbollah could say Israel only attacks civilians, but right now, that civilian casualties are becoming lower and lower, as civilians flee the bombing areas, the only one who gets hurt is Hezbollah.

Plato, I still didn't understand why do you highlight this quote of mine. Yes, cutting off supply lines is one of the first things you learn during tactics and strategy studies. Israel does it fairly well, and now the firing into Israel subsides.

Communalknighthood, Palestinians were offered a state, they rejected it with war. If you think Palestinian terrorists aren't trained - you don't know what you're talking about. In 2001 there were about 70,000 armed men among Palestinians - they are protecting themselves. Palestinians' suffering is their own fault, as they were offered peace, lands, money and many help from all around the world. They took it and continued fighting. And last but not least - difference between IDF and Palestinian terrorists? If you'll read interviews with captured suicide bombers, you'll see that they were trying to find a place with as many civilians as possible to blow them up. Basically - IDF targets terrorists (quite well, actually), Palestinians target civilians.

Yes they wanted a state, but not on Israeli terms. The 1947 partition gave more land to the Israelis despite the fact that they were a minority everywhere in the region. Why should the Palestinians yield territory to a peoples who were singlhandedly violating their right to self-determination.

Look, I know how sensitive an issue it is in Palestine, but there is a very good reason that many people (usually educated) don't support Israel. I mean why should jews have a state when Quebecors, Kurds, Taiwanese, Tibetans and Sikhs don't have one. Or just other displaced people like Native Americans and Arabs who were expelled from Southern Portugal and Spain only 500 years ago.

I just had a lecture in my history of the Middle East course on the establishment of the Israeli state and by the end of the lecture everyone was sympathetic to Palestine. It just makes more sense then supportig Israel.

Think about it.