Political Crossfire Forums

[cap'n queasy]

Quote:
Much of the Nazi's funding was laundered through a corporate slush fund at a company called IG Farben.

Not surprising, as IG Farben was a German armament manufacturer.

Quote: The Nazi "Final Solution" was a deportation policy.
No, it was a containment and execution policy.

There was no need for a deportation policy, Jews wanted to leave. But they were confined in ghettoes until they were transported to death camps and liquidated.

Try picking up an actual history book.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: No, it was a containment and execution policy.

There was no need for a deportation policy, Jews wanted to leave. But they were confined in ghettoes until they were transported to death camps and liquidated.
The "Final Solution" was a deportation policy, first to the Eastern front (i.e., Poland) and from there to destinations unknown, either Palestine or Africa. The Jews had been VOLUNTARILY confining themselves to ghettos for millenia in Europe.. the Nazis certainly were not the ones who invented ghettos.

Initially, the Jews didn't want to leave. They were extremely successful in Germany, moreso than pretty much anywhere else in the world (largely b/c Germany was much more tolerant of Jews than any other European nation up until the early 20th century). Of course, this didn't square w/ the Zionist agenda of setting up a Jewish state in Israel, and hence the pressure of anti-Semiticism, to force the Jews to flee..

[John]

Quote: The Jews had been VOLUNTARILY confining themselves to ghettos for millenia in Europe.. the Nazis certainly were not the ones who invented ghettos.

So what changed?


Why did Jews suddenly stop this strange habit of confining themselves to ghettos?

[letsgooilers]

psholtz wrote: letsgooilers wrote: neither Warburg appears on any list of defendants I could find.
Of course not.

They're the ones who actually started the war. Why should they be called to account for their own actions?

Quote: Quote: Try reading a history book..

Try taking off the tinfoil hat..
No seriously.

Read a history book.

The Nazi "Final Solution" was a deportation policy. It was not a mass murder policy (even though the Nazis did, obviously, commit mass murders).

No, seriously, take off the tinfoil hat..

And I guess you feel no need to address my other points eh?

[psholtz]

John wrote: Quote: The Jews had been VOLUNTARILY confining themselves to ghettos for millenia in Europe.. the Nazis certainly were not the ones who invented ghettos.

So what changed?


Why did Jews suddenly stop this strange habit of confining themselves to ghettos?
They still do .. it's called Israel.

[psholtz]

letsgooilers wrote: And I guess you feel no need to address my other points eh?
No, I have a day job and in my free time I'm busy doing my duty as an American patriot and prosecuting a lawsuit against the IRS and couple evil banks.

I'll get to your points when I have time to dig into my history books again.

[to_frankie]

John wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: John wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: John wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Carlin wrote: Israel isn't really a holy land. Why is it ok for violence, kidnapping, torture, and killing to be not only accepted, but celebrated in the name of nonsense? Who cares who started what? This needs to end.




Indeed. It is insult to everyone when Israel is described as the Holy Hand. It is a land IMHO of extreme depravity of morals. Israel desrve what's coming to them and I feel no sympathy for them.

What's coming to them?

Some sort of karma for the pain and suffering they have caused others through their imperialism. To think they sit back and let the military commit crimes in Palestine and then order the killing, capture or torture of many Palestinians or so called "militants" is truly evil. I propose economic and other forms of sanctions on Israel and a boycott of Israeli products.

Then what do you think is coming to you?

You've caused a lot of pain for your parents.

WTF? Do you have no sympathy whatsoever! You know jack**** about that and I haven't caused anything! I'm not the one refusing to speak. You nothing about it and you are dead wrong! In fact you have insulted me greatly. Very very greatly about something so personal. For the sake of the forum rules i'm not going to go on a personal tyrade against you but if this wasn't the forum and in real life well...........

Keep to the topic and stop launching personal attacks to which you are 100% wrong. If your goal is to upset others then you shouldn't be on this forum. Some Christian you are.

Seems like you can dish it out but you can't take the heat.

Don't be surprised when you open your mouth and someone holds you to your same standards.

You are a perfect example of the pro-Israeli side. When someone starts disagreeing with and proving you wrong. ATTACK HIM PERSONALLY. Good on you for proving our point. Now go ahead and call me a Paki.

[to_frankie]

Duchifas wrote: Yeah yeah, carry on. Those nice Nazis just tried to find better living arrangements for Jews, and those damn Jews just started dropping like flies.

All the mobile killing squads in Eastern Europe, yeah, they just wanted to deport Jews, and then those stupid Jews just died. Who knew that when you mow down thousands of people with machine guns, they would just die? Who knew that when you just temporarily "hold" 33,000 Jews at Babi Yar they would just die, instead of being deported. Especially when you execute them by machine gun fire.

Who knew that when you just "hold" people in a room and release Zyklon B gas into it, they would suddenly drop dead before the deportation.

You are scum, paul sholtz. There are plenty idiots in this world, and not much can be said of them. An idiot is an idiot, whether communist or socialist, and I don't mind their rants or boycotts that much. They are just entertaining. But you are not an idiot. You are just vile Nazi-apologetic scum.

And if after reading your post any moderator decides to ban me instead of you, then I'd put him in the same category.

And you're just a racist, who values no life other than jewish ones and who is always playing the victim card. I find it ironic that you decide to attack him personally when he utterly refutes your argument. Dont like it when the goya are smarter than you do you? :roll:

of course you could have tried to prove him wrong but, no it's easier to attck him like it's easier to attack civilians who dont agree with you. :shock:

[Mailech]

psholtz wrote: The Nazi "Final Solution" was a deportation policy. It was not a mass murder policy (even though the Nazis did, obviously, commit mass murders).

One of the propositions for the final solution was for a mass deportation of the Jews to I think Madigascar.

The real final solution based on the Wannsee conference was to exterminate all the Jews in Europe. They don't say it out right, but the inference is obvious.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-wannsee.htm

Wannsee Conference wrote: Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
Treated accordingly does not mean to buy them coffee and a doughnut for surviving the forced labor.

[cap'n queasy]

to_frankie wrote: Duchifas wrote: Yeah yeah, carry on. Those nice Nazis just tried to find better living arrangements for Jews, and those damn Jews just started dropping like flies.

All the mobile killing squads in Eastern Europe, yeah, they just wanted to deport Jews, and then those stupid Jews just died. Who knew that when you mow down thousands of people with machine guns, they would just die? Who knew that when you just temporarily "hold" 33,000 Jews at Babi Yar they would just die, instead of being deported. Especially when you execute them by machine gun fire.

Who knew that when you just "hold" people in a room and release Zyklon B gas into it, they would suddenly drop dead before the deportation.

You are scum, paul sholtz. There are plenty idiots in this world, and not much can be said of them. An idiot is an idiot, whether communist or socialist, and I don't mind their rants or boycotts that much. They are just entertaining. But you are not an idiot. You are just vile Nazi-apologetic scum.

And if after reading your post any moderator decides to ban me instead of you, then I'd put him in the same category.

And you're just a racist, who values no life other than jewish ones and who is always playing the victim card. I find it ironic that you decide to attack him personally when he utterly refutes your argument. Dont like it when the goya are smarter than you do you? :roll:

of course you could have tried to prove him wrong but, no it's easier to attck him like it's easier to attack civilians who dont agree with you. :shock:

Utterly refutes? Hardly. Anyone should be insulted by holocaust denial. It's an affront to human dignity and a refusal to look at the truth about the human race. It's disgusting to apologize for that behavior. Not to mention the fact that it contradicts the clear facts and evidence. It ridiculous and grotesque to claim the "final solution" was anything else than what it was. An industrialized method of exterminating human beings. How can you expect Duchifas to not be angry and insulted by such vile lies about it? It was his folks that did the dying in that, and they are being called criminals and scum who deserved it.

Quote: Dont like it when the goya are smarter than you do you?


What kind of comment is that to make?

You are out of line.

[cap'n queasy]

Mailech wrote: psholtz wrote: The Nazi "Final Solution" was a deportation policy. It was not a mass murder policy (even though the Nazis did, obviously, commit mass murders).

One of the propositions for the final solution was for a mass deportation of the Jews to I think Madigascar.

The real final solution based on the Wannsee conference was to exterminate all the Jews in Europe. They don't say it out right, but the inference is obvious.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-wannsee.htm

Wannsee Conference wrote: Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
Treated accordingly does not mean to buy them coffee and a doughnut for surviving the forced labor.

I don't think it does mean coffee and doughnuts at all.

[to_frankie]

cap'n queasy wrote: to_frankie wrote: Duchifas wrote: Yeah yeah, carry on. Those nice Nazis just tried to find better living arrangements for Jews, and those damn Jews just started dropping like flies.

All the mobile killing squads in Eastern Europe, yeah, they just wanted to deport Jews, and then those stupid Jews just died. Who knew that when you mow down thousands of people with machine guns, they would just die? Who knew that when you just temporarily "hold" 33,000 Jews at Babi Yar they would just die, instead of being deported. Especially when you execute them by machine gun fire.

Who knew that when you just "hold" people in a room and release Zyklon B gas into it, they would suddenly drop dead before the deportation.

You are scum, paul sholtz. There are plenty idiots in this world, and not much can be said of them. An idiot is an idiot, whether communist or socialist, and I don't mind their rants or boycotts that much. They are just entertaining. But you are not an idiot. You are just vile Nazi-apologetic scum.

And if after reading your post any moderator decides to ban me instead of you, then I'd put him in the same category.

And you're just a racist, who values no life other than jewish ones and who is always playing the victim card. I find it ironic that you decide to attack him personally when he utterly refutes your argument. Dont like it when the goya are smarter than you do you? :roll:

of course you could have tried to prove him wrong but, no it's easier to attck him like it's easier to attack civilians who dont agree with you. :shock:

Utterly refutes? Hardly. Anyone should be insulted by holocaust denial. It's an affront to human dignity and a refusal to look at the truth about the human race. It's disgusting to apologize for that behavior. Not to mention the fact that it contradicts the clear facts and evidence. It ridiculous and grotesque to claim the "final solution" was anything else than what it was. An industrialized method of exterminating human beings. How can you expect Duchifas to not be angry and insulted by such vile lies about it? It was his folks that did the dying in that, and they are being called criminals and scum who deserved it.

Quote: Dont like it when the goya are smarter than you do you?


What kind of comment is that to make?

You are out of line.

what kind of comment is it to call another poster scum? dont see you commenting on that?


and why cant one research the jewish holocaust and make outlandish claims on its background. Jews are making claims that the Qana massacre was staged by the Lebanese. whats the difference.

Im an adult I can make up my own mind on whom to believe. Every group has experienced pain and bigotry and every group has racists within it.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: How can you expect Duchifas to not be angry and insulted by such vile lies about it? It was his folks that did the dying in that, and they are being called criminals and scum who deserved it.
The only one who's thrown the word scum around so far is Duchi..

Besides, it we take as true that Duchi is a Zionist, then we must also take as true that Duchi's "folks" were *not* the ones who did most of the "dying" in WWII.. Herein lies the subtle deception that you and Duchi are trying to pull over everyone else. Zionist Jews had a tendency to be treated w/ kid gloves by the Nazis, and more often than not the Zionists were directly collaborating w/ Nazis anyway.

And even more importantly, MANY PEOPLE suffered under the Nazis, not just the Jews. This is especially true in Eastern Europe, which was as much as a victim of Hitler's bizarre racial theories as the Jews ever were.. and yet these victims tend to be reduced to "second class" status by the mainstream Holocaust accounts.

[Mailech]

cap'n queasy wrote: I don't think it does mean coffee and doughnuts at all.

I am not saying that you did

[cap'n queasy]

Mailech wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I don't think it does mean coffee and doughnuts at all.

I am not saying that you did

I was being facetious. :lol: Sorry.

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: How can you expect Duchifas to not be angry and insulted by such vile lies about it? It was his folks that did the dying in that, and they are being called criminals and scum who deserved it.
The only one who's thrown the word scum around so far is Duchi..

And only in your direction, as is well deserved. Actually, scum may have been somewhat offended that I put you in the same category with it.

Quote: Besides, it we take as true that Duchi is a Zionist, then we must also take as true that Duchi's "folks" were *not* the ones who did most of the "dying" in WWII.. Herein lies the subtle deception that you and Duchi are trying to pull over everyone else. Zionist Jews had a tendency to be treated w/ kid gloves by the Nazis, and more often than not the Zionists were directly collaborating w/ Nazis anyway.

First of all, I am not a Zionist, as that term has been appropriated to refer to the enterprise of building a secular and socialist paradise in the land of Israel. I am a Jew, and being a Jew entails a loylaty to the Torah, as a guide for the Jewish people.

To the extent that the "Zionist" state of Israel promotes the values of the Torah (or at least does not oppose them), I support Israel. To the extent that the state of Israel opposes the values of the Torah I oppose it. You can label me Zionist, anti-Zionist, or whatever you wish, I remain just a Jew.

Second, it is pretty disgusting how you extrapolate how many of my family were killed by the Nazis based on my political views. Too many of them were murdered to count here. I will not desecrate their memory by discussing them with the likes of you.

But, I am quite confident that extrapolating from your personal views, your grandfathers must have been quite high up in the SS, mobile killing squads, and the concentration camp "deportation" personnel. They would be proud of you continuing their legacy here.

Then again, why extrapolate, when we have wikipedia. Say, psholtz, are you related by any chance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrud_Scholtz-Klink

Quote: Gertrud Scholtz-Klink (February 9, 1902 - March 24, 1999; nee Treusch) was a fervent National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazi Party) member and Reichs Women's Leader.

She married a postal worker at the age of eighteen and had six children before he died. His martyrdom and her plain Germanic looks made her a perfect candidate for the National Socialists.

She joined the Nazi Party and by 1929 became leader of the women's section in Baden.

When Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, he appointed Scholtz-Klink as Reich Women's Leader and head of the Nazi Women's League. A good orator, her main task was to promote male superiority and the importance of child-bearing. In one speech she pointed out that "the mission of woman is to minister in the home and in her profession to the needs of life from the first to last moment of man's existence."

In July 1934 she was appointed as head of the Women's Bureau in the German Labour Front. Scholtz-Klink had responsibility for persuading women to work for the good of the Nazi government. In 1938 she argued that "the German woman must work and work, physically and mentally she must renounce luxury and pleasure." though she herself enjoyed a comfortable material existence. As she was a woman, she was usually left out of the more important meetings in the Male dominated society of the Third Reich and has been considered usually to be a figurehead. By 1940 she was married to her third husband SS Obergruppenführer August Heissmeyer and made frequent trips to visit women at Political Concentration Camps.

After the War she went into hiding and was not arrested until 1948. Later that year she was sentenced by a French military court to eighteen months in prison. Historian Claudia Koonz interviewed her in the early 1980s and found her to be somewhat unrepentant of her Nazi past.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: First of all, I am not a Zionist
Could have fooled me... :lol:

Quote: Second, it is pretty disgusting how you extrapolate how many of my family were killed by the Nazis based on my political views. Too many of them were murdered to count here. I will not desecrate their memory by discussing them with the likes of you.
And many members of my family were murdered by Hitler and especially Stalin as well.. You have my condolences, but you also dodged the pertinent question: how many of these family members were Zionists?

Quote: Then again, why extrapolate, when we have wikipedia. Say, psholtz, are you related by any chance?
I don't think the relation is any closer than is my relation to say George P. Schultz (Reagan's economic adviser), to the CEO of Starbucks (Howard Schultz) or to Harry Schultz (the world's most highly paid financial adviser, knighted 7 times).

It's a quite common name..

So what are you going to do now? Boycott Starbucks? :lol:

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: Duchifas wrote: First of all, I am not a Zionist
Could have fooled me... :lol:

Quote: Second, it is pretty disgusting how you extrapolate how many of my family were killed by the Nazis based on my political views. Too many of them were murdered to count here. I will not desecrate their memory by discussing them with the likes of you.
And many members of my family were murdered by Hitler and especially Stalin as well.. You have my condolences, but you also dodged the pertinent question: how many of these family members were Zionists?

I have no idea. When people are murdered, I do not separate them into political categories, as you like to do.

My family who were murdered were just Jews. I don't know or care whether they were Zionists or anti-Zionists. They were just Jews, and that's why the Nazis murdered them.

To me, the Americans who were murdered on 9/11 were Americans. Not Democrats or Republicans, for whom I would grieve less or more. They were ALL my countrymen murdered by Islamic maniacs.

I suppose that you would separate them into whether they were pro or anti Israel, and whether they were bankers or not, and whatever other idiotic distinctions would tickle your necrophiliac fancy. I don't feel the need to engage in your fetishes.

Quote: Quote: Then again, why extrapolate, when we have wikipedia. Say, psholtz, are you related by any chance?
I don't think the relation is any closer

Hmm, could have fooled me. Considering your ideology and such...

Quote: than is my relation to say George P. Schultz (Reagan's economic adviser), to the CEO of Starbucks (Howard Schultz) or to Harry Schultz (the world's most highly paid financial adviser, knighted 7 times).

It's a quite common name..

So what are you going to do now? Boycott Starbucks? :lol:

No. But considering Starbucks' record, you and your boycotting buddy DarthTiberius should certainly boycott them:

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

I, on the other hand, am a satisfied customer of their business, and will continue to be one for a long time.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: I have no idea. When people are murdered, I do not separate them into political categories, as you like to do.

My family who were murdered were just Jews. I don't know or care whether they were Zionists or anti-Zionists. They were just Jews, and that's why the Nazis murdered them.

To me, the Americans who were murdered on 9/11 were Americans. Not Democrats or Republicans, for whom I would grieve less or more. They were ALL my countrymen murdered by Islamic maniacs.

I suppose that you would separate them into whether they were pro or anti Israel, and whether they were bankers or not, and whatever other idiotic distinctions would tickle your necrophiliac fancy. I don't feel the need to engage in your fetishes.
Interesting conspiracy theory you have about "Islamic maniacs" being responsible for 9/11..

Be that as it may, 9/11 was obviously NOT a "precision-guided" attack on America, in the sense that population groups were not targeted on an individual-by-individual basis. The Nazi roundups of Jews in Europe WERE "precision-guided" in this sense (and they were very precise, indeed), so once again your analogy fails to hold.

btw, 9/11 would not have happpened had America followed its Constitution and refused to support foreign nations (including, eg., Israel). Moreover, for as long as America continues to ignore its Constitution and continues support for foreign nations it has no business meddling in, attacks like 9/11 will continue occuring.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: No. But considering Starbucks' record, you and your boycotting buddy DarthTiberius should certainly boycott them:

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

I, on the other hand, am a satisfied customer of their business, and will continue to be one for a long time.
The man's politics are his own, and as mine.

However, it's an interesting tidbit of economic information you post there. Proof indeed that the Israeli economy is in complete shambles and that only the major infusions of foreign aid are what keeps Israel (economically) alive. If even Starbucks CANNOT keep its businesses open and run them profitably in Israel, what does that tell you? :lol: