Political Crossfire Forums

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2601

I have to take sholtz's side on this (shudder) if there will be eating and drinking then why not sex? Why is one phyisical pleasure transfered and not another?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

Mailech wrote: I have to take sholtz's side on this (shudder) if there will be eating and drinking then why not sex? Why is one phyisical pleasure transfered and not another?

Why not?

What about dancing and singing? Laughter?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: Mailech wrote: I have to take sholtz's side on this (shudder) if there will be eating and drinking then why not sex? Why is one phyisical pleasure transfered and not another?

Why not?

What about dancing and singing? Laughter?
How about peace?

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

JackarooSundown wrote: Ever since I was very young I have always pondered this. When the sunday school teacher said there will be no hunger in Heaven, did that mean that we will be spiritual beings and therefore not need food, or did it mean that God will provide us with plenty of food? You decide.

I personally doubt there would be any need for food (or result of hunger) as food is only needed to supply the physical body with 'go-go' juice. It isn't necessary for the spiritual body, as the spiritual body can exist after the physical body stops.
But as long as you make it there, why would we care if there's food or not? :P

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2601

John wrote: Mailech wrote: I have to take sholtz's side on this (shudder) if there will be eating and drinking then why not sex? Why is one phyisical pleasure transfered and not another?

Why not?

What about dancing and singing? Laughter?

Ok sure what about dancing and singing? will there be dancing and singing. And why can't sholtz have his 72 virgins?

As for laughter, well that is not really a physical thing.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

Quote: will there be dancing and singing. And why can't sholtz have his 72 virgins?

I doubt he'd know what to do. :rotf:

Seriously though...I guess I don't really care if there is food or not...I just personally think that there will be by a couple hints in the Bible. *shrug*

sparsely · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2296 Location: Passamaquoddy

we already have enough food, however it is partitioned by those in power who would create an industry of hunger, like many other things.
Heaven is not something that will come when we die, but what will come when we as a society remove the middlemen.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

psholtz wrote: The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

Ah...the Gnostic shows his true colors.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: psholtz wrote: The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

Ah...the Gnostic shows his true colors.
No..

Gnostics hate the flesh, remember??..

I don't hate the flesh (although I do understand that the flesh is temporary, and the Soul is eternal, and so the two are always *at war* w/ each other, so to speak).. Rather, I see the flesh/body as 100% essential to the manifestation of man's purpose and destiny on this earth (another way of looking at it would be, why would God give us bodies in the first place, if it were not for some purpose?)

The view I express above is more Platonic than anything.

We've been over this before.

At any rate, call me crazy, but I really don't think you're going to be hungry, thirsty or wanting sex if you make it to Heaven. Heaven to me seems to be a state of peace (for the Soul).. either you're there, or you aren't.

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2601

psholtz wrote: The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

That is mostly what I believe, with the caveat that at the time of the ressurection, those of us that make it, will have our bodies back, but they will be perfected bodies, as before the sin of Adam and Eve. What that body will need or desire though, is beyond my realm of knowledge.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

Ah...the Gnostic shows his true colors.
No..

Gnostics hate the flesh, remember??..

I don't hate the flesh (although I do understand that the flesh is temporary, and the Soul is eternal, and so the two are always *at war* w/ each other, so to speak).. Rather, I see the flesh/body as 100% essential to the manifestation of man's purpose and destiny on this earth (another way of looking at it would be, why would God give us bodies in the first place, if it were not for some purpose?)

The view I express above is more Platonic than anything.

We've been over this before.

At any rate, call me crazy, but I really don't think you're going to be hungry, thirsty or wanting sex if you make it to Heaven. Heaven to me seems to be a state of peace (for the Soul).. either you're there, or you aren't.

Quote: Heaven to me seems to be a state of peace (for the Soul).. either you're there, or you aren't Well said :clap:

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

psholtz wrote: John wrote: psholtz wrote: The body is, perhaps obviously, a (finite) limitation .. and as such, it seems to me that genuine freedom, in the truest sense of the word, is utterly impossible for the mind/soul/spirit that habitually identifies itself w/ the body and with the desires of the body. The "need" for food, drink, sex, etc, these strike me as being just that.. feelings imposed upon the mind by the limitations of the finite body in which the soul has been temporarily encased.

Therefore, if Heaven is liberation, and freedom for the Soul in the truest sense of the word, I would be amazed if our Souls would continue to be tyrannized (once in Heaven) by the carnal desires and appetites that held sway over us while incarnated in the temporal body.

Ah...the Gnostic shows his true colors.
No..

Gnostics hate the flesh, remember??..

I don't hate the flesh (although I do understand that the flesh is temporary, and the Soul is eternal, and so the two are always *at war* w/ each other, so to speak).. Rather, I see the flesh/body as 100% essential to the manifestation of man's purpose and destiny on this earth (another way of looking at it would be, why would God give us bodies in the first place, if it were not for some purpose?)

The view I express above is more Platonic than anything.

We've been over this before.

At any rate, call me crazy, but I really don't think you're going to be hungry, thirsty or wanting sex if you make it to Heaven. Heaven to me seems to be a state of peace (for the Soul).. either you're there, or you aren't.

I think you are confusing the sin nature that we inherited from Adam with physicality.

Having physical substance isn’t evil.

I believe that the resurrected body will inherit physical capabilities.

Quote: The view I express above is more Platonic than anything.

Gnosticism and the Platonic belief structure go hand and hand.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: I think you are confusing the sin nature that we inherited from Adam with physicality.

Having physical substance isn’t evil.

I believe that the resurrected body will inherit physical capabilities.
The physical is not "evil", but neither is it eternal.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is very clearly spelled out in Scripture.

Quote: Quote: The view I express above is more Platonic than anything.

Gnosticism and the Platonic belief structure go hand and hand.
Yes, much like Catholic and Protestant belief structures go together hand in hand.

Tell us John, do you count yourself as a Catholic? :lol:

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

Quote: Yes, much like Catholic and Protestant belief structures go together hand in hand.

Tell us John, do you count yourself as a Catholic?

No...but I would consider them to be Christians. I think it's a good example you bring up here.

I think that Gnosticism is to Platonicism as Catholicism is to Protestantism. Same type…different breed.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24241

Quote: The physical is not "evil", but neither is it eternal.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is very clearly spelled out in Scripture.

What about flesh and bone?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: Quote: Yes, much like Catholic and Protestant belief structures go together hand in hand.

Tell us John, do you count yourself as a Catholic?

No...but I would consider them to be Christians. I think it's a good example you bring up here.

I think that Gnosticism is to Platonicism as Catholicism is to Protestantism. Same type…different breed.
OK.

And now that you've gone through all this trouble to carefully and meticulously arrange all these labels in such the way you like to see them arranged, your point would be ..... what?

That you're going to go to Heavan and enjoy wine and cheese banquets w/ Jesus, while everyone else is going to burn in hell for eternity?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

John wrote: Quote: The physical is not "evil", but neither is it eternal.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is very clearly spelled out in Scripture.

What about flesh and bone?
What do you think?

eynon · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject:

Quote: At any rate, call me crazy, but I really don't think you're going to be hungry, thirsty or wanting sex if you make it to Heaven. Heaven to me seems to be a state of peace (for the Soul).. either you're there, or you aren't. [/quote](yawn)sounds kinda boring to me....better memorize the Dungeons and Drangons story-tellers guide before I die, give me and the other souls something to do :wink:

to be honest I have no clue what heaven will be like, nor do I really care, I try to serve G-d because he is the source, alpha-omega, etc....BUT the human soul thrives on passion, passion brought on by things like art, music, love, craft, and so on. Anyone who has ever felt G-d's touch through the holy-spirit will recognize that passion in not an alien concept to him, nor do I think will it be to us in heaven.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Eynon81 wrote: to be honest I have no clue what heaven will be like, nor do I really care, I try to serve G-d because he is the source, alpha-omega, etc....BUT the human soul thrives on passion, passion brought on by things like art, music, love, craft, and so on. Anyone who has ever felt G-d's touch through the holy-spirit will recognize that passion in not an alien concept to him, nor do I think will it be to us in heaven.
The things you cite above are more examples of creativity then they are "passion"..

Certainly God is a creative force, as is man (who is created in God's image... no pun intended on the word "created" there, of course).

In the sense that God is an eternal Creator, then perhaps Heaven is not unlike this either. For Heaven must partake of Eternity, and I'm not against saying that it has a creative aspect to it. But at the same time, the things cited earlier in this thread, like hunger and thrist, are to my mind examples more of the body's (temporary) tyranny over the Soul, then they are examples of the creative principle... although in the most abstract sense, I suppose the body consumes food and water for the purpose of creating new cells and replacing old ones that have died.

Sex is a different story, for obvious reasons. It is certainly a creative function, which is (perhaps ironically) why I would wager more money on there being some form of sex in Heaven, then food and drink.. :wink: