Political Crossfire Forums

[The Last Gringo]

George Bush has stated that Islam is a peaceful religion and is compatible with democracy. Both are obvious lies and made for political purposes such as not alienating Islamic voters or those Muslim countries that supply our oil.

But hiding the truth about Islam and its perpetual war against the infidels (us) will only continue to cause casualties among our troops in fruitless wars to install democracy in places like Afganistan and Iraq.

There are those who believe that if we eliminate the "radical" Muslims, we can all have a group hug and democracy and peace will reign throughout the world. Muslim clerics and the true believers, however, are the only reason Islam exists. They could number well into the tens of millions out of a population of 1.3 billion and growing.

They are only carrying out the commands of Allah as written in the Quran. These words cannot be changed. There can be no reformation. If Allah says: "Believers, make war on the infidels around you..." you do it. (Sura 9:123)

Muslim clerics preach that the infidels must be destroyed or subjugated and an Islamic government, based on the sharia (Islamic law), established worldwide.

The late Ayatollah Khomeini said: "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is OBEYED in every country in the world...But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world...Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: "Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!" (Islam Unveiled, Spencer)

Another example from an Al-Qaeda training manual affirms this. The jihadists know that "...an Islamic government would never be established except by the bomb and the rifle. Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it."

The young Muslim soldiers are "...to prepare themselves for jihad [holy war], commanded by the Majestic Allah's order in the holy Koran." They will"...strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah...."

The manual restates that "...Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils." (UIC/BM-8 translation)

Note that there is only one Quran. Fundamentalists and moderates read the same book. It is to be taken literally. True believers who carry out Allah's commands are the real Muslims. Without them, as an Iranian cleric said a century ago just before he was hanged, the secular world would prevail and "Islam will perish".

[ToonArmyIsComing]

The Last Gringo wrote: Note that there is only one Quran. Fundamentalists and moderates read the same book. It is to be taken literally. True believers who carry out Allah's commands are the real Muslims. Without them, as an Iranian cleric said a century ago just before he was hanged, the secular world would prevail and "Islam will perish".

Who says those who carry out every letter written in Quran are the "real Muslims"? Islam is a religion that can be interpreted like any other religion in a variety of ways. Which one is more "real" than the other is a matter of choice rather than a set in stone matter.


PS: I really think Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are vicious religions as I have indicated numerous times before on these boards.

[Muslima]

islam says fight the non-believers if they fight you, it doesn't say go wonder around the globe and fight whomever comes into your sight.


al-qaida was created by the US, according to Fahrenheit 9-11, which is totally true.

Khaminey is a shiite, you should google about the shiite.

not every radical muslim is involved since not every radical is armed.

AND as a muslim i don't CARE what bush says about islam because it is all farce.

[Demonic Spoon]

I love these MY INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY IS MORE LOVING/POWERFUL/BETTER THAN YOUR INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY arguments.

Just...shut...up already. Any religion can be used to justify slaughter. There will always be people ready to prey upon the gullibility and stupidity of others. There will always be people telling other people that God demands they kill X person. It wont stop until the end of religion.

[henri]

Demonic Spoon wrote: I love these MY INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY IS MORE LOVING/POWERFUL/BETTER THAN YOUR INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY arguments.

Just...shut...up already. Any religion can be used to justify slaughter. There will always be people ready to prey upon the gullibility and stupidity of others. There will always be people telling other people that God demands they kill X person. It wont stop until the end of religion.

*****

Religion is like a beautiful song to each its own.

The song will sound ugly if it's not sung right

It is not the song that matters, it's the singer!

[Rankor and Pissing]

Muslima wrote: islam says fight the non-believers if they fight you, it doesn't say go wonder around the globe and fight whomever comes into your sight.


al-qaida was created by the US, according to Fahrenheit 9-11, which is totally true. Actually, I prefer "Superman", because THAT is totally true.

Muslima wrote: not every radical muslim is involved since not every radical is armed. It all depends on what youmean by "invovled". Knowing where a bomb is planted and not informing the police = involved. Harboring, feeding and sheltering killer psychopaths bent of seeing 72 virgins by blowing up innocent people who are not attacking them = involved. Funding or taking part in laundering money and routing money to killer psychopaths bent on seeing 72 virgins by blowing up innocent people= involved.

There's many different levels of involvement.

Muslima wrote: AND as a muslim i don't CARE what bush says about islam because it is all farce. That goes a long way towards tolerance. Does it say that in the Qu'ran? Maybe that's a Sunna or located in the Hadith of Muhammad?

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote:
*****

Religion is like a beautiful song to each its own.

The song will sound ugly if it's not sung right

It is not the song that matters, it's the singer!

Name one thing other than religion that can bring the masses to support widespread slaughter?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote:
*****

Religion is like a beautiful song to each its own.

The song will sound ugly if it's not sung right

It is not the song that matters, it's the singer!

Name one thing other than religion that can bring the masses to support widespread slaughter?

:rotf:

[Demonic Spoon]

...No.

[henri]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote:
*****

Religion is like a beautiful song to each its own.

The song will sound ugly if it's not sung right

It is not the song that matters, it's the singer!

Name one thing other than religion that can bring the masses to support widespread slaughter?

*****

Well, Zionism!. It is not based on religion, it is based on Terror!

[Muslima]

Quote: That goes a long way towards tolerance. Does it say that in the Qu'ran? Maybe that's a Sunna or located in the Hadith of Muhammad?

no none, okay. you people dislike him and you expect me to like him? :shock:

[previsionary]

Quote: They are only carrying out the commands of Allah as written in the Quran. These words cannot be changed. There can be no reformation. If Allah says: "Believers, make war on the infidels around you..." you do it. (Sura 9:123)

When was the quran revealed??? during 6th century. I believe that was 1500 yeasrs ago. During those time the pagans were persecuting anyone they wanted. For this reason this was revealed.
Quran is based on the idea that progression overtime will help any muslim believer understand more. This is because more knowledge will be avaliable to us. The Quran is suppose to be understood through reason not that just plain rubbish. Maybe if you read the rest of the chapter you'll have a better understanding of what is meant here.

Quote: Another example from an Al-Qaeda training manual affirms this. The jihadists know that "...an Islamic government would never be established except by the bomb and the rifle. Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it."

The young Muslim soldiers are "...to prepare themselves for jihad [holy war], commanded by the Majestic Allah's order in the holy Koran." They will"...strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah...."

The manual restates that "...Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils." (UIC/BM-8 translation)

What an abominable source you use to make a point? The KKK also has a "manual" it says
"Imagine the world with only one race - only one culture - Is that really what you want? ...Because that WILL be the End result"

Hmmm from this KKK statement I infer that Christianity wants to go after all non christians and kill them off.

My point is there are radical groups from all religous sects. They all have extremeist thoughts. Don't just go on babbling about one small small minority saying it represents an entire group.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Muslima wrote: Quote: That goes a long way towards tolerance. Does it say that in the Qu'ran? Maybe that's a Sunna or located in the Hadith of Muhammad?

no none, okay. you people dislike him and you expect me to like him? :shock:

Absolutely not you do NOT have to like him, you can detest him, hate him or whatever you want as long as you know it's for the right reasons and not because of rhetoric or propaganda reasons... I personally don't like the guy as a human being, I don't like most of his policies, yet I'm usually ending up defending his actions when it comes to U.S. foreign policy, since I think he's doing the right things (though not very well) and he actually does have a grasp on some of the nuances.

[liberty12345]

The Last Gringo wrote: George Bush has stated that Islam is a peaceful religion and is compatible with democracy. Both are obvious lies and made for political purposes such as not alienating Islamic voters or those Muslim countries that supply our oil.

But hiding the truth about Islam and its perpetual war against the infidels (us) will only continue to cause casualties among our troops in fruitless wars to install democracy in places like Afganistan and Iraq.

There are those who believe that if we eliminate the "radical" Muslims, we can all have a group hug and democracy and peace will reign throughout the world. Muslim clerics and the true believers, however, are the only reason Islam exists. They could number well into the tens of millions out of a population of 1.3 billion and growing.

They are only carrying out the commands of Allah as written in the Quran. These words cannot be changed. There can be no reformation. If Allah says: "Believers, make war on the infidels around you..." you do it. (Sura 9:123)

Muslim clerics preach that the infidels must be destroyed or subjugated and an Islamic government, based on the sharia (Islamic law), established worldwide.

The late Ayatollah Khomeini said: "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is OBEYED in every country in the world...But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world...Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: "Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!" (Islam Unveiled, Spencer)

Another example from an Al-Qaeda training manual affirms this. The jihadists know that "...an Islamic government would never be established except by the bomb and the rifle. Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it."

The young Muslim soldiers are "...to prepare themselves for jihad [holy war], commanded by the Majestic Allah's order in the holy Koran." They will"...strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah...."

The manual restates that "...Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils." (UIC/BM-8 translation)

Note that there is only one Quran. Fundamentalists and moderates read the same book. It is to be taken literally. True believers who carry out Allah's commands are the real Muslims. Without them, as an Iranian cleric said a century ago just before he was hanged, the secular world would prevail and "Islam will perish".

Cant say that i agree with you any more! most of the european leaders are blind to these facts at the present time which is sad thing!

Israr Ahmed is a well-known religious figure in Pakistan, India, the Middle East, and the North America. The following is an Interesting video about his views on how non-muslims should be treated in a muslim state under shaira law...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUmFvg2zNU&mode=related&search=mullah

here is the same translation from a neutral source...

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392

some more

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”


Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29).

you cant deny that Islamic law deny's non-muslims and muslims of many basic human rights.

examples of Islamic law in action

Nigeria

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2587039.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html

Pakistan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2958316.stm

Somalia

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news __africa/&articleid=274833

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news __africa/&articleid=276425

40% of muslims want sharia in the uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ZSVTVEFJTQOVTQFI QMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/200 6/02/19/ixportaltop.html

[SaladFingers]

I wish in the Bible (New Testament) we had a printed, black and white ink section telling us how to conduct war :(

Then I could justify killing my boss for loading me with so many Spring car policy changes!!!!!!!!!!

[Tepic]

henri wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: I love these MY INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY IS MORE LOVING/POWERFUL/BETTER THAN YOUR INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY arguments.

Just...shut...up already. Any religion can be used to justify slaughter. There will always be people ready to prey upon the gullibility and stupidity of others. There will always be people telling other people that God demands they kill X person. It wont stop until the end of religion.

*****

Religion is like a beautiful song to each its own.

The song will sound ugly if it's not sung right

It is not the song that matters, it's the singer!

For once, I almost agree with Henri. It's not the religion - it's how it's practised.

[Demonic Spoon]

No s**t. The problem is that religion, as a rule, is contrary to reason. It's a lot easier to get someone to fight when they believe God wants them to.

[Tepic]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Name one thing other than religion that can bring the masses to support widespread slaughter?

Any belief in a 'magic bullet' that solves all problems. Religion is one example. Political systems like communism is another. Once people believe that X is the answer, and the end to all humanity's problems, they will just about destroy humanity to get X into place. And then it always turns out to be a disapointment :?

The idea that eliminating all religion would bring peace and perfection is another X. If enough people believed that, there could be widespread slaughter of those who still had religions.

[nrhy]

Quote: George Bush has stated that Islam is a peaceful religion and is compatible with democracy. Both are obvious lies and made for political purposes such as not alienating Islamic voters or those Muslim countries that supply our oil.

this is a Bullsh*t topic.

[liberty12345]

nrhy wrote: Quote: George Bush has stated that Islam is a peaceful religion and is compatible with democracy. Both are obvious lies and made for political purposes such as not alienating Islamic voters or those Muslim countries that supply our oil.

this is a Bullsh*t topic.

How is shariah law compatible with democracy and human rights? :roll: