Political Crossfire Forums

Lebanese_Canadian · Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 12

ok buddy u r talkin facts then get this fact straight. The lebanese army cannot fight hezbollah for many reasons PLZ allow me to list them for you !!!

1) If we attack them , we will be taken care of by Syria. And not publicly but rather Silently. Syria has secret services all over lebanon. And to beleive that they pulled everyone out is pure bs.

2) i dunno how old are you but if you wer alive in 1975 u would know of the Lebanese civil war that split the country. Muslims vs christians. Thus shiites / sunni vs christians vs druz vs palestinians. It was a struggle for power. the only way that it was settled was thru this agreement.
Our president is christian, our PM is sunni muslim and our speaker or parliement is Shiite Muslim. Thats how hezbollah got into our govt otherwise we lebanese DO NOT WANT THEM THER
if we wer to attack hezbollah we would suffer another civil war.

Rather than being an ignorant and stating that lebanon deserves this , get ur facts straight and then argue. WE LEBANESE HATE HEZBOLLAH AND SYRIA AND IRAN !! WE JUST WANT TO LIVE PEACEFULLY !!!

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

I think most Israelis recognize that Lebanon has massive internal issues, and is a rather split nation. But that only reinforces why we have to act. If you cannot destroy Hizbollah and yet they still attack us then I beleive the conclusion is obvious. We must do it for you, sadly it will be also alongside the cost of many Israelis, the cost of many Lebanese.

Lebanese_Canadian · Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 12

i have posted the following just recently on another topic. Allow me to share it with you !!

Quote: I have been reading alot and OMG people need a lebanese point of view. We in Lebanon HATE Hezbollah we do not want them in our country. We do not want Palestinians nor Syrians. Sunni muslims hate shiites ( hezbollah) and its proven just recently when saudi arabia a sunni state accused Hezbollah for the crisis. We christians really hate the shiites too. We get along more with the Sunni b/c we both want Lebanon to prosper in today's world.

The main reason why our government cannot side with anyone is b/c of the following:
1) If we choose to officialy declare our position with Israel then expect syria to either invade us , OR what most of you dont know to commit crimes against our ppl with their secret service. Also it risks starting the 1975 civil war again.

2) If we publicly support the hezbollah terrorist then as u might have figured out, Israel will finish us.

After the speech Mr.Senyoura made today, he stated Lebanon wants the help of the international community in order to take back our country. In other words to disarm Hizbollah and get rid of them.

Right now most lebanese are silently happy of what israel is doing. We want Israel to bomb the s**t out of Hezbollah and their supporters. They are the cause of all this destruction and the previous ones in the past. We have had enough of this BS , rebuilding our country time after time.

we also want to open our borders with Israel, to trade with them and become good neighbours.

Our civilians are dying now because of the stupid kidnapping. We had enough. It might cost us Lebanese BLood but we want Hezbollah DEAD EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM !!

I hope this will be over soon with minimun civilian casualties and the full disarmement of the dumb F***S in the south. God Bless Lebanon and thank you Israel !!

PS: Plz leave Beirut City Centre in one piece Thanx !!!

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

We seem to think along the same lines then. Though I do wonder if this is just your opinion or hopefully though perhaps just wistfully that of the Lebanese street as well.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1647 Location: UK / Hungary

SpartanPhalanx wrote: Israel is killing men, women and children in Lebanon, some in convoys, some just for being there and living their lives.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2196219

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1821462,00.html

Comments?

Had a look at what's going on in Haifa lately? Perhaps you could post a similar thread on that?!!!

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1647 Location: UK / Hungary

Plato & Socrates wrote: SpartanPhalanx wrote: Israel is killing men, women and children in Lebanon, some in convoys, some just for being there and living their lives.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2196219

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1821462,00.html

Comments?

Typical paranoid Israel. Yet again with world sympathy understanding that legitimate action should be taken against Hizbollah. They have decided to go OVER THE TOP yet again. They are predictable and lame, for they will justify each civilian death as a necessary evil and then will be completely dumbfounded to understand why they are resented and hated. The use of disproportion bombing and shelling is utterly illogical and totally in the long term counter productive.
But this is modern Israel for you. This is what happens when the moderate voice does'nt get heard, compared to the "lets hit them even harder" brigade, for that should make them change there ways, is there thinking because this strategy has worked in the past. Has'nt it?

I agree Israel should only be allowed to throw stones and fire the same amount of rockets as Hezbollah.The UN can officiate this war and any Commander found to have fired one more rocket than Hezbollah will be given a severe talking too and told not to be so naughty!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Futhermore this forum will also require that any Israeli deaths should pass unmentioned whilst just even a single death in Palestine or Lebanon will require a minimum of three threads all condeming the 'evil war mongering Israelis!! :roll: :roll:

Zoot · Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 2183

TacticalSniper wrote: Spartan, Israel does not destroy Lebanon. It barely attacked civilian infrastructure. The IDF destroys mainly Hezbollah's rocket placements. I am posting weak arguments? At least, unlike you, I use facts. Hezbollah obviously did not expect they'd get such a reaction. In 2001 they kidnapped three soldiers from my company, 601st battalion. They expected us be quiet, like then. It will not happen. Hezbollah is part of Lebanese government, thus we were attacked by a state. Any country would have responded with the same - so will we.

And I've posted not long ago link to an article that proves Greeks helped Milosevic. Don't try to hide here! You murderous Greeks helped him is slaughtering thousands and a genocide.

Is taking prisoners of war not common practice in wars where you're from?

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

Is destroying the people who attack you where your from? If you call them POW's then you acknowledge there is a war and you acknowledge our right to use fully military force in said acknowledged war.

cogent · Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 41 Location: beirut

do you really think that you are hitting spots that would hurt hizbollah
just so that you know... hizbollah never uses our airports
they never use our roads,
and never uses our building
they have their own secret buildings and paths
so these excuses are cheap and worthless

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: London

MoscowMatt wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: SpartanPhalanx wrote: Israel is killing men, women and children in Lebanon, some in convoys, some just for being there and living their lives.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2196219

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1821462,00.html

Comments?

Typical paranoid Israel. Yet again with world sympathy understanding that legitimate action should be taken against Hizbollah. They have decided to go OVER THE TOP yet again. They are predictable and lame, for they will justify each civilian death as a necessary evil and then will be completely dumbfounded to understand why they are resented and hated. The use of disproportion bombing and shelling is utterly illogical and totally in the long term counter productive.
But this is modern Israel for you. This is what happens when the moderate voice does'nt get heard, compared to the "lets hit them even harder" brigade, for that should make them change there ways, is there thinking because this strategy has worked in the past. Has'nt it?

I agree Israel should only be allowed to throw stones and fire the same amount of rockets as Hezbollah.The UN can officiate this war and any Commander found to have fired one more rocket than Hezbollah will be given a severe talking too and told not to be so naughty!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Futhermore this forum will also require that any Israeli deaths should pass unmentioned whilst just even a single death in Palestine or Lebanon will require a minimum of three threads all condeming the 'evil war mongering Israelis!! :roll: :roll:

Wit is an art you obviously lack. But that could be forgiven if your post had any merit or substance, but my,my it does'nt even possess that. :lol: I know it irritates you that some of us have'nt mentioned the death of some mitzvah. But this thread is called Israel Kills 32 Civilians in Air Strikes. Start a thread about some Israeli deaths and has always irrespective of which organisation have killed them, I will condemn them as always and offer my condolences. Unlike some on the pro-Israeli side,
I have never not once attempted to justify not a single Jewish civilian death.

The sad fact is, that playing the most blatant form of partisan politics is beneath me. A death no matter what side perpetrates it, I utterly condemn and a search through any of my previous posts will make that fact absolutely crystal clear and to be honest i'm quite proud of that. But dear oh dear, for too many on the Pro-Israeli side, you guys are disproportionately Jewish, who refuse point blank to condemn the obvious. Personally I don't envy you guys at all, because it frequently puts you in a impossible position to defend the indefensible.

Yet again after world wide acknowledgment that Israel is in the right to stop Hizbollah attacks in all forms. She goes completely over the top, just like night follows day and like thunder follows lightning, the pro-Israeli's will defend every single death perpetrated on behalf of the IDF. It's too predictable and quite frankly bordering the pathetic.

MoscowMatt just like a Freudian slip reveals the subconscious thought in the mind. Have you ever really asked yourself and explored the reasons why it irritates you, that the pro-Palestinian supporters don't mention Israeli deaths with the same frequency as Palestinian ones?

Naturally your tiny mind will automatically believe that its because of the partisan divide. Or you may even think that for some, its because they don't care about Jewish deaths. The sad fact is that you are wrong on all accounts. You also need a lesson in Occam's Razor The very reason we frequently debate and talk about Arab deaths compared to Jewish deaths, is precisely because the ratio of Arab vs Jewish deaths are far higher. Quite simple is'nt it?

Muslima · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 1642

cogent wrote: do you really think that you are hitting spots that would hurt hizbollah
just so that you know... hizbollah never uses our airports
they never use our roads,
and never uses our building
they have their own secret buildings and paths
so these excuses are cheap and worthless

exactly. :clap:

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8672 Location: Petah Tikva

cogent wrote: do you really think that you are hitting spots that would hurt hizbollah
just so that you know... hizbollah never uses our airports
they never use our roads,
and never uses our building
they have their own secret buildings and paths
so these excuses are cheap and worthless

Right. Just like they did in the 1980's right? And just like they did up until the end of the civil war and our withdrawel right? I mean Hezbollah offices and strongholds in South Beruit are all a conspiracy right? And they have their own secret airfields which they use right? And their own secret highways that no one else in Lebanon knows about or can find? Underground trams?

Your making rather absurd claims.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1647 Location: UK / Hungary

Plato & Socrates wrote:
Yet again after world wide acknowledgment that Israel is in the right to stop Hizbollah attacks in all forms. She goes completely over the top, just like night follows day and like thunder follows lightning, the pro-Israeli's will defend every single death perpetrated on behalf of the IDF. It's too predictable and quite frankly bordering the pathetic.

Given your stance on matters I'll excuse your ignorance and stupidity regarding matters of warfare!!!

Any nation being attacked will respond with all it's might. The idea of any war is to win it is quickly as possible nobody wants a drawn out conflict over decades. In order to acheive this you use overwhelming force.

So simple even you could understand this. But apparently not!!! :lol:

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

MoscowMatt wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote:
Yet again after world wide acknowledgment that Israel is in the right to stop Hizbollah attacks in all forms. She goes completely over the top, just like night follows day and like thunder follows lightning, the pro-Israeli's will defend every single death perpetrated on behalf of the IDF. It's too predictable and quite frankly bordering the pathetic.

Given your stance on matters I'll excuse your ignorance and stupidity regarding matters of warfare!!!

Any nation being attacked will respond with all it's might. The idea of any war is to win it is quickly as possible nobody wants a drawn out conflict over decades. In order to acheive this you use overwhelming force.

So simple even you could understand this. But apparently not!!! :lol:

Overwhelming force against civilians is the single greatest way to prolong this conflict 'over decades'.

If you wish to punish a petty criminal do you send him to the gallows? The sentance in this case is disproportionate in the extreme to the crime.

Di · Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 1391 Location: Northern Calif

MoscowMatt wrote:
I agree Israel should only be allowed to throw stones and fire the same amount of rockets as Hezbollah.The UN can officiate this war and any Commander found to have fired one more rocket than Hezbollah will be given a severe talking too and told not to be so naughty!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Futhermore this forum will also require that any Israeli deaths should pass unmentioned whilst just even a single death in Palestine or Lebanon will require a minimum of three threads all condeming the 'evil war mongering Israelis!! :roll: :roll:

:lol:

The above is QFT (Quoted For Truth!) Nice to know I'm not the only one who noticed this rather blatant double standard.

Di · Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 1391 Location: Northern Calif

cogent wrote: do you really think that you are hitting spots that would hurt hizbollah
just so that you know... hizbollah never uses our airports
they never use our roads,
and never uses our building
they have their own secret buildings and paths
so these excuses are cheap and worthless

I'm sorry, but this just isn't believable. Of course Hezbollah uses your roads. That's how they transport the rockets they are firing into Israel; it's how they get raiding parties into Israel to murder and kidnap soldiers; it's how they supply themselves with arms and missles from Syria.

Of course they use your buildings. It's where they live, where they work, where they have office space, where they store their arms and missles. And if they choose to store missles in the basement of an apartment complex, guess what? That complex will be coming down, and sadly a whole bunch of residents who may or may not be related to Hezbollah fighters will come down with it. 'Secret buildings?' Muhahaha. Give me a break. Half the world had the address of Hezbollah headquarters. Heck, they even own a tv station, both of which are probably listed in the Lebanese equivalent of the yellow pages!

Of course they use the airport. Do you think they walk everywhere, and their supplies are ferried in on the backs of camels?

What do you expect Israel to do when Hezbollah, operating freely throughout southern Lebanon, crosses the border, murders 8 soldiers, kidnaps 2 more, then brags about it while smugly implying they will transport those soldiers "far, far away"? I'll tell you what I'd expect Israel to do... I'd expect Israel to blockade the ports, destroy the roads out of Lebanon and shut down the airport, all to keep them from transporting said soldiers "far, far away."

Pshaw. To insist that Hezbollah walks on 'secret paths', uses 'secret buildings' and apparently has never used an airplane for any purpose is the most ludicrous statement I've read on these boards... and I've read a lot of ludicrous statements, lol

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: London

Pebble wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote:
Yet again after world wide acknowledgment that Israel is in the right to stop Hizbollah attacks in all forms. She goes completely over the top, just like night follows day and like thunder follows lightning, the pro-Israeli's will defend every single death perpetrated on behalf of the IDF. It's too predictable and quite frankly bordering the pathetic.

Given your stance on matters I'll excuse your ignorance and stupidity regarding matters of warfare!!!

Any nation being attacked will respond with all it's might. The idea of any war is to win it is quickly as possible nobody wants a drawn out conflict over decades. In order to acheive this you use overwhelming force.

So simple even you could understand this. But apparently not!!! :lol:

Overwhelming force against civilians is the single greatest way to prolong this conflict 'over decades'.

If you wish to punish a petty criminal do you send him to the gallows? The sentance in this case is disproportionate in the extreme to the crime.

MoscowMatt their is no way you are British, talking the utter rubbish you do. What has our history in Ireland taught you?
Do you remember the Brighton bombing? Did the Republic of Ireland get bombed? We consistently told the American's that from a British government perspective, the I.R.A was a terrorist group. Day after day, week after week, year after bloody year, in the bars of Boston and New York, I.R.A fund-raising was going on.

Those collections were being used to fund I.R.A terrorist activities on the British mainland. These Bombs killed and maimed many of our fellow citizens as you fully well know. It disrupted everyday life especially the transport. But did we go on a killing spree, even though we had the capacity to do so?

"Any nation being attacked does'nt always respond with all it's might" People like you talk about using overwhelming force because you personally are not on the receiving end. If we Brits were as dumb as the Israeli's, we would be occupying the Republic of Ireland today.

With the logic applied by Israel, The U.K would have been within her rights to bomb the Irish communities in New York and Boston because for decades we requested the U.S government to stop I.R.A fund raising taking place on their soil. Who did'nt use to feel sick watching Gerry Adams and Martin Mc-Guiness, swanning around raising funds to kill my fellow citizens.
Hey, why stop at Boston and New York, why not the whole of the USA infrastucture?

The I.R.A had political offices in the Republic of Ireland whilst they bombed us and assassinated some of our politicians. Did we bomb the Rep of Ireland infrastructure to the dark ages?

Not once did we make the I.R.A and the American fund raising issue seriously come between the British government and Americans. Neither did we try to obliterate the Rep of Ireland government for allowing financial aid to freely flow without any attempt to stop it, going to the I.R.A, even though we continually asked. So please don't give me the "you've never faced what we're facing tripe"

Overwhelming force. :lol: listen to yourself. How people on this forum can come on here and proclaim that the state of Lebanon declared war on Israel, is beyond me. :shock: Quite frankly i'm lost for words and that's rare.

SpartanPhalanx · Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2198 Location: 3rd rock

Plato & Socrates wrote: Pebble wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote:
Yet again after world wide acknowledgment that Israel is in the right to stop Hizbollah attacks in all forms. She goes completely over the top, just like night follows day and like thunder follows lightning, the pro-Israeli's will defend every single death perpetrated on behalf of the IDF. It's too predictable and quite frankly bordering the pathetic.

Given your stance on matters I'll excuse your ignorance and stupidity regarding matters of warfare!!!

Any nation being attacked will respond with all it's might. The idea of any war is to win it is quickly as possible nobody wants a drawn out conflict over decades. In order to acheive this you use overwhelming force.

So simple even you could understand this. But apparently not!!! :lol:

Overwhelming force against civilians is the single greatest way to prolong this conflict 'over decades'.

If you wish to punish a petty criminal do you send him to the gallows? The sentance in this case is disproportionate in the extreme to the crime.

MoscowMatt their is no way you are British, talking the utter rubbish you do. What has our history in Ireland taught you?
Do you remember the Brighton bombing? Did the Republic of Ireland get bombed? We consistently told the American's that from a British government perspective, the I.R.A was a terrorist group. Day after day, week after week, year after bloody year, in the bars of Boston and New York, I.R.A fund-raising was going on.

Those collections were being used to fund I.R.A terrorist activities on the British mainland. These Bombs killed and maimed many of our fellow citizens as you fully well know. It disrupted everyday life especially the transport. But did we go on a killing spree, even though we had the capacity to do so?

"Any nation being attacked does'nt always respond with all it's might" People like you talk about using overwhelming force because you personally are not on the receiving end. If we Brits were as dumb as the Israeli's, we would be occupying the Republic of Ireland today.

With the logic applied by Israel, The U.K would have been within her rights to bomb the Irish communities in New York and Boston because for decades we requested the U.S government to stop I.R.A fund raising taking place on their soil. Who did'nt use to feel sick watching Gerry Adams and Martin Mc-Guiness, swanning around raising funds to kill my fellow citizens.
Hey, why stop at Boston and New York, why not the whole of the USA infrastucture?

The I.R.A had political offices in the Republic of Ireland whilst they bombed us and assassinated some of our politicians. Did we bomb the Rep of Ireland infrastructure to the dark ages?

Not once did we make the I.R.A and the American fund raising issue seriously come between the British government and Americans. Neither did we try to obliterate the Rep of Ireland government for allowing financial aid to freely flow without any attempt to stop it, going to the I.R.A, even though we continually asked. So please don't give me the "you've never faced what we're facing tripe"

Overwhelming force. :lol: listen to yourself. How people on this forum can come on here and proclaim that the state of Lebanon declared war on Israel, is beyond me. :shock: Quite frankly i'm lost for words and that's rare.

Great post Plato...but to be honest, logic and reason, in the vein you described above is completely lost on Zionists and their apologists. We can reason 'till the bloody cows come home but to them the sky's pink even though we all know it isn't.

As I type the above , I can't but think of Churchill's famous speech in 1940, while Britain was under attack by the Nazis, much like Lebanon is today....

"We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

TacticalSniper · Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject:

Yeah, only difference is, Britain did not attack Hitler.

So thinking of Israel and its fight with Lebanon... Churchill's saying comes to my head:

"We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

Couldn't say better. That's exactly what we're gonna do.

Arcenius I · Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject:

I hope people realize this:

Israel's attacks on civillian infrastructure, if done far enough as to prevent any movement within Lebanon, will eventually cause the two soldiers to be slaughtered to death, if Hezabollah is not able to move them.

If Israel wants to see its soldiers alive again, it better be smart enough to realize that it needs to stop bombing airports, water plants, electric plants and other major buildings which have nothing to do with Hezbollah. In short, Israel is artficially setting a deadline as to how far longer the two soldiers get to live.