Political Crossfire Forums

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

Well, its not really about guns, but knives and guns both serve pretty much the same purposes, and LL was harping on about the knife amnesty, so I thought id post the results:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5132046.stm

Quote: "The fact that there were 130 knife attacks in one month just appals me and it proves that we are not doing enough. Ten years ago you would expect that number in a year"

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Boneman wrote: Well, its not really about guns, but knives and guns both serve pretty much the same purposes, and LL was harping on about the knife amnesty, so I thought id post the results:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5132046.stm

Quote: "The fact that there were 130 knife attacks in one month just appals me and it proves that we are not doing enough. Ten years ago you would expect that number in a year"

wait... are you trying to say that banning something does NOT stop crime? how radical! how wrong!!!!

:lol:

surprise surprise, only the gun lobby could have predicted it.

Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10882 Location: Podunk, Colorado

What is it going to be after knives? Cricket bats? Hahahahaha. Only the anti-gun are paranoid enough to ban those.

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

Thats a point I made to LL, more people in the UK are killed with baseball bats than they are with legally owned firearms yet no one has tried banning baseball bats. He has yet to respond.

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

Boneman wrote: Thats a point I made to LL, more people in the UK are killed with baseball bats than they are with legally owned firearms yet no one has tried banning baseball bats. He has yet to respond.

That sounds a bit like an argument for the greater regulation of baseball bats to me......... :twisted:

Slythe · Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 1616 Location: US of A

If they keep this up, people will be eating with plastic utensils, because metal ones cause crime. You can't play sports like tennis or cricket without having a license and in order to get that license you need to register the racket or bat and before you get that, you take a test to see if you can wield it properly.

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2339

Boneman wrote: Thats a point I made to LL, more people in the UK are killed with baseball bats than they are with legally owned firearms yet no one has tried banning baseball bats. He has yet to respond.

Probably true. Legally owned firearms. I can' speak for the UK, but in Australia there are fewer illegal firearms due to the fact that there are fewer legal firearms.
Gun-nuts fail to understand that it is once-legal firearms that supply the market for illegal firearms. Guns that are "lost" (sold by their owners), stolen etc.

Otacon · Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:31 am Post subject:

The point is that criminals get their guns through illegitmate means.

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2339

Otacon wrote: The point is that criminals get their guns through illegitmate means.

I understand that. However:
If there are no guns to get, then they are out of luck aren't they?
It's not a theory I came up with. It is a functioning policy in Australia that is working. We have far fewer illegal guns on our streets than you. Crimes such as armed robbery, muggings etc are committed with firearms at a stageringly lower rate here than in the US.

Its a simple premise: If there are no guns, there are no guns.

Otacon · Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:48 am Post subject:

America is much larger than Australia. There are more guns here than anywhere else in the world. A ban on guns isn't going to stop the violence in America. Therefore, owning a gun is the best way to protect my personal safety, and the safety of others.

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 21832 Location: Sin City

if you ban a certain implement or tool... only the responsible wielders of said tool will be denied access to it.... the criminal element will find access through other than legal means..... what you are left with is basically good guys being "outgunned" by bad guys..... this has pretty much been proven by now..... hopefully it will actually sink in to the policy makers thick skulls some day

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2339

Otacon wrote: America is much larger than Australia. There are more guns here than anywhere else in the world. A ban on guns isn't going to stop the violence in America. Therefore, owning a gun is the best way to protect my personal safety, and the safety of others.

And so the cycle continues...

Blinky · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 2339

Thrilla wrote: if you ban a certain implement or tool... only the responsible wielders of said tool will be denied access to it.... the criminal element will find access through other than legal means..... what you are left with is basically good guys being "outgunned" by bad guys..... this has pretty much been proven by now..... hopefully it will actually sink in to the policy makers thick skulls some day

Not true.
You are not reading the posts here Thrilla. If there are fewer guns overall, there are fewer guns circulating illegally.
Australia is living proof.

blinky wrote: Its a simple premise: If there are no guns, there are no guns.

Otacon · Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:10 am Post subject:

But that is impossible in America. America isn't Australia.

alclarkey · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 1360

Blinky wrote: It's not a theory I came up with. It is a functioning policy in Australia that is working.

It is?

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=8073

Rubber Traits · Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 91 Location: Memphis, TN

Blinky wrote:

Not true.
You are not reading the posts here Thrilla. If there are fewer guns overall, there are fewer guns circulating illegally.
Australia is living proof.

Australia is an island. If there is a national ban on guns, it is slightly more difficult to smuggle one in than it would be in America. Need a gun in California and the US has banned it? Go to mexico, or buy it from crooked cops, or buy it from ex-military, or buy it from one of the millions of people who kept theirs anyways.

The 2nd amendment protects all of our other amendments. I'm not going to surrender my right to have a gun on the offchance a criminal can't get one, or that the government won't violate my other rights, after doing it to one of them already.

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Boneman wrote: Well, its not really about guns, but knives and guns both serve pretty much the same purposes, and LL was harping on about the knife amnesty, so I thought id post the results:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5132046.stm

Quote: "The fact that there were 130 knife attacks in one month just appals me and it proves that we are not doing enough. Ten years ago you would expect that number in a year"

Your link is about knife control laws in England and Wales. It says that 236 people were killed by a sharp instrument in England and Wales in 2004-05, this is a rate of less than 0.5 per 100,000.

How big a problem is it when America has a murder rate with knife over 0.7 per 100,000?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/weaponstab.htm

England and Wales are targeting knife crimes like never before, tell us again who is not doing enough Boneman?

BTW in 1995, 10 years ago 231 people were killed by a sharp instrument in England and Wales, 5 less than in 2005 making your thread looking silly at best.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb0104.pdf
:-D
:-D

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Boneman wrote: Thats a point I made to LL, more people in the UK are killed with baseball bats than they are with legally owned firearms yet no one has tried banning baseball bats. He has yet to respond.

I don't recall you making such a point Boneman, would you please show us your data on the matter, may be opening another silly thread and I'll show you where you are wrong, again.

:-D
:-D

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Otacon wrote: America is much larger than Australia. There are more guns here than anywhere else in the world. A ban on guns isn't going to stop the violence in America. Therefore, owning a gun is the best way to protect my personal safety, and the safety of others.

There is not much evidence on whether American consumers who buy guns for protection against crime get their money's worth.

:-D
:-D

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

Lucky Luke wrote: Boneman wrote: Thats a point I made to LL, more people in the UK are killed with baseball bats than they are with legally owned firearms yet no one has tried banning baseball bats. He has yet to respond.

I don't recall you making such a point Boneman, would you please show us your data on the matter, may be opening another silly thread and I'll show you where you are wrong, again.

:-D
:-D
9th page of the "trouble with gun controle" thread.