Political Crossfire Forums

[dtwizzy2k5]

A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

[Darth Tiberius]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

All these can be explained by science. The brain is sometimes starved of oxygen and then has these dillusions before the brain recovers and is brought back from the brink of death. Nothing spiritual about it.

[Gilbert1908]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

I have had such experiences twice unfortunately for me, but I honestly don't see them as proof of anything beyond someone's personal experience.

The human mind is so far from being understood that to attach evidence of a supernatural nature to the memories or "experiences" of what could easily be explained as a dream or hallucinatory state does not work well with none believers and rightfully so.

I can certainly attach my own meaning to my experiences but I really can not seek to present them as any kind of scientific proof.

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

Actually do to my health conditions I have been flat-lined twice and maybe as many as 5 near death experiences..As far as see light I have seen that..As a matter of fact I was thinking I had made some mistakes in my thinking...But as the light started getting brighter and brighter I started opening my eyes and realized it was just the bright lights that they were using for my surgery....

As far as all the other accounts I have none..The only miracles were do to medical science that got my heart to restart...Although I have been able to remember things that happened that I shouldn't have been because I was out cold..But I have waking up during surgery 2 times ..So it could of been me waking up and hearing things that were going on..

[dtwizzy2k5]

Darth Tiberius wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

All these can be explained by science. The brain is sometimes starved of oxygen and then has these dillusions before the brain recovers and is brought back from the brink of death. Nothing spiritual about it.

But there have been accounts of people who have experienced NDEs when they were clinically brain dead and in some accounts clinically dead. How does science explain that?
Doesnt it seem like too much of a coincidence that most people who have experienced NDEs report very similar experiences that are heaven like (or in some cases hell like)?

[dtwizzy2k5]

feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

Actually do to my health conditions I have been flat-lined twice and maybe as many as 5 near death experiences..As far as see light I have seen that..As a matter of fact I was thinking I had made some mistakes in my thinking...But as the light started getting brighter and brighter I started opening my eyes and realized it was just the bright lights that they were using for my surgery....

As far as all the other accounts I have none..The only miracles were do to medical science that got my heart to restart...Although I have been able to remember things that happened that I shouldn't have been because I was out cold..But I have waking up during surgery 2 times ..So it could of been me waking up and hearing things that were going on..

Thats interesting. There have been accounts of people who have heard very good music with sounds that are unearthly (heavenly music one might say). Surely no doctor plays music, let alone heavenly music, during a surgery. Also people have had out of body experiences where they actually float above and watch their body in the medical room and they came back reporting conversations that actually occured in the room while they were clinically brain dead so its not like they woke up during the surgury or anything.
Im not really attacking you or arguing with you here, i just would like to hear your thoughts on these accounts and stuff...

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

Actually do to my health conditions I have been flat-lined twice and maybe as many as 5 near death experiences..As far as see light I have seen that..As a matter of fact I was thinking I had made some mistakes in my thinking...But as the light started getting brighter and brighter I started opening my eyes and realized it was just the bright lights that they were using for my surgery....

As far as all the other accounts I have none..The only miracles were do to medical science that got my heart to restart...Although I have been able to remember things that happened that I shouldn't have been because I was out cold..But I have waking up during surgery 2 times ..So it could of been me waking up and hearing things that were going on..

Thats interesting. There have been accounts of people who have heard very good music with sounds that are unearthly (heavenly music one might say). Surely no doctor plays music, let alone heavenly music, during a surgery. Also people have had out of body experiences where they actually float above and watch their body in the medical room and they came back reporting conversations that actually occured in the room while they were clinically brain dead so its not like they woke up during the surgury or anything.
Im not really attacking you or arguing with you here, i just would like to hear your thoughts on these accounts and stuff...

Alot of people say alot of things...I guess if you think about if your near death your brain isn't functioning at 100 % anyways so who knows what a person may think they are experiencing when that happens...One thing though, most drugs make you think happy thoughts So that could be part of it...Like I said I've been dead and seen none of these things..But I have remembered conversations but I don't know if that was while I was Flat-lined.

[toddytodd]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

It would be interesting to see if NDEs are similar based upon social and/or geographic boundaries. Meaning, do Christians that experience NDE's see something different than a Mormon which sees something different than a Muslim, etc? Or do they all see a light and hear the voice of God?

[toddytodd]

Gilbert1908 wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....
The human mind is so far from being understood that to attach evidence of a supernatural nature to the memories or "experiences" of what could easily be explained as a dream or hallucinatory state does not work well with none believers and rightfully so.
That is a good point. This idea (the brain making things up that can't be understood or don't make sense) can also be used for the belief in a lot of things: God, UFOs, ghosts, etc. It is something that should be considered by people when searching for any of the previously mentioned items.

[dtwizzy2k5]

NDEs

This is a great PDF of a book about NDEs. Its a very long read so i know some people may not have the patience to read it but it is very good and for me it was very enlightening. It includes accounts of NDEs, and conclusions drawn from those accounts. It also gives evidence as to why NDEs cant be explained away with science or "just random brain chemicals". The site is broken down into sections so you can go scroll through the interesting parts if you dont want to read the whole thing. There are some very interesting ideas including the concepts of God not caring about your religion or sexual orientation but about the pureness of your heart and how much love you have. Its very detailed and i encourage anybody seeking truth or interested in god/religion to take a look-see at this site... and let me know what you all think

[Darth Tiberius]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

All these can be explained by science. The brain is sometimes starved of oxygen and then has these dillusions before the brain recovers and is brought back from the brink of death. Nothing spiritual about it.

But there have been accounts of people who have experienced NDEs when they were clinically brain dead and in some accounts clinically dead. How does science explain that?
Doesnt it seem like too much of a coincidence that most people who have experienced NDEs report very similar experiences that are heaven like (or in some cases hell like)?

Science can explain that electrical impulses still exist when the brain is "dead". And when someone is officially dead for a few seconds they can still be on rare occasions revived.

But science doesn'rt have the answer 100% of the time. Just most of the time.

[dtwizzy2k5]

Darth Tiberius wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: A lot of people have had near-death experiences (NDEs). Almost all of them have very similar qualities, such as seeing a light, out of body experiences, and other stuff like that. There have even been accounts of people describing events that actually happened even though they were clinically brain dead or completely dead. There have also been numerous atheists who have converted and become theists after experiencing their own NDEs.
This is an interesting phenomenon and IMO is more proof that God exists (or at least that an afterlife exists). I was wondering what some atheists on this forum think of NDEs or how they like to explain them in a non-theistic way. Becuase the way i see it, it cant really be explained with science and it seems to me to be very supernatural.
Feel free to share your thoughts (even if you are not an atheist)....

All these can be explained by science. The brain is sometimes starved of oxygen and then has these dillusions before the brain recovers and is brought back from the brink of death. Nothing spiritual about it.

But there have been accounts of people who have experienced NDEs when they were clinically brain dead and in some accounts clinically dead. How does science explain that?
Doesnt it seem like too much of a coincidence that most people who have experienced NDEs report very similar experiences that are heaven like (or in some cases hell like)?

Science can explain that electrical impulses still exist when the brain is "dead". And when someone is officially dead for a few seconds they can still be on rare occasions revived.

But science doesn'rt have the answer 100% of the time. Just most of the time.

Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife. Click the link i gave above (a couple posts back) for more information if you dont believe me or are interested to find the truth.

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

[JDHURF]

It is highly improbable that what these individuals claim to have experienced i.e. “seeing the bright light” or “seeing dead family members” is actually realistic. When a physical body dies, the heart ceases to pump blood to the brain hence the brain ceases to receive oxygen and then literally begins to suffocate. The brain under such duress will function for a while before it completely “dies”; this is one of the reasons that people can be brought back to life by having their heart electrically pumped back into action. While the brain is still “alive” it is under immense duress from the lack of oxygen and is subject to fairly bizarre phenomena; it is known that a lack of oxygen to the brain produces a sense of “transcendence” and that one will see a world of explicit bright light, ask anyone that has been on one of those space shuttle force simulators. After death there is ample evidence to believe that existence of self ceases to be. Consciousness seems to be intrinsically bound to the physical realm through the functioning of the brain, after death the brain will cease functioning and will decay altogether consciousness following suit. There can be no afterlife with out a physical body based on the current evidence and research produced by modern science through fields of psychology, physiology, and neuroscience. In short the brain will continue to run for a while after the heart has ceased pumping blood through the body; much like when you cut off a large electronic item quickly and the electric charge remaining within the component runs the item for a short time before finally running out of electricity and shutting down completely. So the mind still runs for a time after immediate death, however, any claim made by the individual after such an occurrence that they saw the bright lights of heaven or their dead loved ones should be considered the delirious superstition being ascribed to the trauma of a suffocating and dying brain.

[dtwizzy2k5]

feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

If you have a problem with anythign i said (all of which was true) try using a real rebuttal. Emoticons make for a pretty weak argument you know.

JDHURF wrote: It is highly improbable that what these individuals claim to have experienced i.e. “seeing the bright light” or “seeing dead family members” is actually realistic. When a physical body dies, the heart ceases to pump blood to the brain hence the brain ceases to receive oxygen and then literally begins to suffocate. The brain under such duress will function for a while before it completely “dies”; this is one of the reasons that people can be brought back to life by having their heart electrically pumped back into action. While the brain is still “alive” it is under immense duress from the lack of oxygen and is subject to fairly bizarre phenomena; it is known that a lack of oxygen to the brain produces a sense of “transcendence” and that one will see a world of explicit bright light, ask anyone that has been on one of those space shuttle force simulators. After death there is ample evidence to believe that existence of self ceases to be. Consciousness seems to be intrinsically bound to the physical realm through the functioning of the brain, after death the brain will cease functioning and will decay altogether consciousness following suit. There can be no afterlife with out a physical body based on the current evidence and research produced by modern science through fields of psychology, physiology, and neuroscience. In short the brain will continue to run for a while after the heart has ceased pumping blood through the body; much like when you cut off a large electronic item quickly and the electric charge remaining within the component runs the item for a short time before finally running out of electricity and shutting down completely. So the mind still runs for a time after immediate death, however, any claim made by the individual after such an occurrence that they saw the bright lights of heaven or their dead loved ones should be considered the delirious superstition being ascribed to the trauma of a suffocating and dying brain.

So all those people lied about what they experienced in their NDEs? And you cant use "scientific evidence" to explain spiritual phenomena (sp?) because God isnt limited to earthly laws of science. You still dont convince how all these similar experiences can be merely coincidences. And is it also a coincidence that what religion teaches us about Christ and heaven and afterlife also happens to fit perfectly into the visions that people see of heaven and Christ and God during their NDEs? Of course not. There have also been people who were born blind who have recorded accounts of being able to SEE things in their near death experiences. Explain that one with science, will you? For further information, check my link above in my earlier posts.

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

If you have a problem with anythign i said (all of which was true) try using a real rebuttal. Emoticons make for a pretty weak argument you know.




There is nothing to argue this affirms nothing...Why is it true, because they say it is.......Hmmmm Sounds like something else I've heard before...

[dtwizzy2k5]

feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

If you have a problem with anythign i said (all of which was true) try using a real rebuttal. Emoticons make for a pretty weak argument you know.




There is nothing to argue this affirms nothing...Why is it true, because they say it is.......Hmmmm Sounds like something else I've heard before...

For some reason you have this problem where you think everybody is always lying about stuff. Instead of asking me for proof of God maybe i should be asking you for proof that all these ppl lied about NDEs and people lied about jesus and the whole world is lying !!! You sound very insecure...did ur parents lie to you much when u were a child?

[JDHURF]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: So all those people lied about what they experienced in their NDEs?
I didn’t claim that they had lied rather I claimed that they were ascribing supernatural phenomena to the natural trauma of a suffocating and dying brain.
dtwizzy2k5 wrote: And you cant use "scientific evidence" to explain spiritual phenomena (sp?) because God isnt limited to earthly laws of science.
I likewise never claimed that science is capable of observing and describing “spiritual phenomena,” rather I claimed that NDE’s did not constitute such “spiritual phenomena.”
dtwizzy2k5 wrote: You still dont convince how all these similar experiences can be merely coincidences.
They aren’t coincidence, they are the natural consequences of having ones brain cut off from a required supply of oxygen thus suffocating and dying. The human race generally reacts in a similar and predictable manner to specific traumas, hence the efficacy of the medical establishment.
dtwizzy2k5 wrote: And is it also a coincidence that what religion teaches us about Christ and heaven and afterlife also happens to fit perfectly into the visions that people see of heaven and Christ and God during their NDEs? Of course not.
Exactly where in the Christian doctrine is the “vision” of heaven explicitly stated? Furthermore it is a scientific fact that upon brain deterioration and the lack of oxygen inherent therein such phenomena as being enveloped within an explicit bright light is a rather common occurrence and can be synthetically induced. How a medical and psychological laymen wishes to interpret these “transcendent” and unusual events is clearly up to them but to – without any abutment, or scientific evidence – claim that these events are evidence of the supernatural is well out of bounds with what is intellectually responsible and honest.
dtwizzy2k5 wrote: There have also been people who were born blind who have recorded accounts of being able to SEE things in their near death experiences. Explain that one with science, will you? For further information, check my link above in my earlier posts.
Again you are ascribing occult postulates to phenomena widely known within the medical and psychiatric establishments to be accountable through natural means.

[toddytodd]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

If you have a problem with anythign i said (all of which was true) try using a real rebuttal. Emoticons make for a pretty weak argument you know.

JDHURF wrote: It is highly improbable that what these individuals claim to have experienced i.e. “seeing the bright light" or “seeing dead family members" is actually realistic. When a physical body dies, the heart ceases to pump blood to the brain hence the brain ceases to receive oxygen and then literally begins to suffocate. The brain under such duress will function for a while before it completely “dies"; this is one of the reasons that people can be brought back to life by having their heart electrically pumped back into action. While the brain is still “alive" it is under immense duress from the lack of oxygen and is subject to fairly bizarre phenomena; it is known that a lack of oxygen to the brain produces a sense of “transcendence" and that one will see a world of explicit bright light, ask anyone that has been on one of those space shuttle force simulators. After death there is ample evidence to believe that existence of self ceases to be. Consciousness seems to be intrinsically bound to the physical realm through the functioning of the brain, after death the brain will cease functioning and will decay altogether consciousness following suit. There can be no afterlife with out a physical body based on the current evidence and research produced by modern science through fields of psychology, physiology, and neuroscience. In short the brain will continue to run for a while after the heart has ceased pumping blood through the body; much like when you cut off a large electronic item quickly and the electric charge remaining within the component runs the item for a short time before finally running out of electricity and shutting down completely. So the mind still runs for a time after immediate death, however, any claim made by the individual after such an occurrence that they saw the bright lights of heaven or their dead loved ones should be considered the delirious superstition being ascribed to the trauma of a suffocating and dying brain.

So all those people lied about what they experienced in their NDEs? And you cant use "scientific evidence" to explain spiritual phenomena (sp?) because God isnt limited to earthly laws of science. You still dont convince how all these similar experiences can be merely coincidences. And is it also a coincidence that what religion teaches us about Christ and heaven and afterlife also happens to fit perfectly into the visions that people see of heaven and Christ and God during their NDEs? Of course not. There have also been people who were born blind who have recorded accounts of being able to SEE things in their near death experiences. Explain that one with science, will you? For further information, check my link above in my earlier posts.

Quote: So all those people lied about what they experienced in their NDEs?
Speaking only for myself, I don't see it as a 'lie'. Seeing something is one of the strongest forms of proof for people in general - they will 'believe it when I see it' type of thing. However, just because someone sees something doesn't mean it actually exists. Someone experiencing a NDE can 'see' something and 110% believe they saw it. In actuality they did 'see' it, but it could very easily be something their mind conjured up. Therefore, it could only exists in their mind, not in reality.
Quote: There have also been people who were born blind who have recorded accounts of being able to SEE things in their near death experiences. Explain that one with science, will you? What seems unexplainable today, might very well be explainable tomorrow. Just because it can't be explained today, doesn't mean it isn't scientifically possible, nor does it mean it is a 'supernatural experience'. Should we discount the supernatural entirely? I don't believe so. But by keeping the supernatural cause alive, we must realize that many will dismiss it entirely until it is able to be proved.

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Even so, the similarities between all the accounts are too strong to be a coincidence and completely affirm the existence of God and an afterlife.


"completely affirm" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

If you have a problem with anythign i said (all of which was true) try using a real rebuttal. Emoticons make for a pretty weak argument you know.




There is nothing to argue this affirms nothing...Why is it true, because they say it is.......Hmmmm Sounds like something else I've heard before...

For some reason you have this problem where you think everybody is always lying about stuff. Instead of asking me for proof of God maybe i should be asking you for proof that all these ppl lied about NDEs and people lied about jesus and the whole world is lying !!! You sound very insecure...did ur parents lie to you much when u were a child?

Yes they did lie, they said God was real...Now my dad feels like he may of been lied to as well...When you come here and say something that affirms that God and the afterlife is real you better come up with something better than testimonies of people that were dead and right before,during,and right after their brains would of been doing all kinds of things..You might as well of said you saw god in your closet and took a picture of him but the picture didn't come out...