Political Crossfire Forums

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?

ShirzadianM · Joined: 27 Jun 2006 Posts: 140 Location: Ohio

LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?

Because the entire abortion argument revolves around the sanctity of life. You do not have to be a member of a certain gender to help "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..." as the Constitution so eloquently states.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 1965 Location: Washington

LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?
Because there's no rule that states that every single one of your beliefs has to be a direct result of personal, physical experience.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

ShirzadianM wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?

Because the entire abortion argument revolves around the sanctity of life. You do not have to be a member of a certain gender to help "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..." as the Constitution so eloquently states.

So, you believe that a fetus should be protected with "blessings of liberty" when it is unable to comprehend what "blessings of liberty" are?

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

CrossEyedMary wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?
Because there's no rule that states that every single one of your beliefs has to be a direct result of personal, physical experience.

So, if the government said one day that guys who had impregnated women had to cut off their testicles so that they couldn't make anymore babies, I could be pro-testicle-cutting (not that I would be), even though I will never have testicles?

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

AllAmericanMan wrote: If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

I know that a lot of women are pro-life (unfortunately, because I've met them), but I simply said that a lot of men on here are pro-life. I didn't say that all of the pro-lifers on here are men.

The only reason it's a pretty circular argument is because I, the pro-choicer, keeps giving you arguments to which you, the pro-lifer, simply keeps repeating himself to a useless degree.

Rankor and Pissing · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 8453

LittleAcorn wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

I know that a lot of women are pro-life (unfortunately, because I've met them), but I simply said that a lot of men on here are pro-life. I didn't say that all of the pro-lifers on here are men.

The only reason it's a pretty circular argument is because I, the pro-choicer, keeps giving you arguments to which you, the pro-lifer, simply keeps repeating himself to a useless degree.

Your assumption is that the only valid opinions are from women, who actually can get pregnant. Men's status as "pro-life" is somehow diminished because they cannot become pregnant. The initial arguement is faulty - one doesn't have to become pregnant to have a valid opinion. So do only gay men have a valid opinion on same sex marriage? What about gay women? How about vasectomy - women have no say because they don't have a penis...?

It may be that more men are pro-life - I don't really follow the abortion issue very closely here on PCF. However, it's usually less about gender and more about moral/political/relgious views held - regardless of gender.

JayDubya · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Texas

LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

"Proud to be a gay, Liberal-Green fairy"

Neither will you.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

LittleAcorn wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

I know that a lot of women are pro-life (unfortunately, because I've met them), but I simply said that a lot of men on here are pro-life. I didn't say that all of the pro-lifers on here are men.

The only reason it's a pretty circular argument is because I, the pro-choicer, keeps giving you arguments to which you, the pro-lifer, simply keeps repeating himself to a useless degree.

The reason its a circular argument is because science has proven when life begins (at conception) and pro choicers insist on dehumanizing the young just the same.

Izzibeth · Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 423

i would say that it's not that i have noticed that a lot of the pro-lifers are men... i've just noticed a lack of female voice on this issue in this particular forum. i know that not all (or even most) women are pro-choice. it is most likely pretty split down the middle. i am just a little bit surprised at how few females are actually discussing it.

it is probably because the issue is one in which an actual voice (no offense to pcf forums, but i'm sure you know what i mean) is really the only thing worth taking part in because forum arguments on this issue just keep going round and round and round.

i just never seem to learn my lesson. ^_^

i just can't stay away!!!!

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: i just never seem to learn my lesson. ^_^

i just can't stay away!!!!

Its ok we still love ya. :wink:

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

Rankor and Pissing wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

I know that a lot of women are pro-life (unfortunately, because I've met them), but I simply said that a lot of men on here are pro-life. I didn't say that all of the pro-lifers on here are men.

The only reason it's a pretty circular argument is because I, the pro-choicer, keeps giving you arguments to which you, the pro-lifer, simply keeps repeating himself to a useless degree.

Your assumption is that the only valid opinions are from women, who actually can get pregnant. Men's status as "pro-life" is somehow diminished because they cannot become pregnant. The initial arguement is faulty - one doesn't have to become pregnant to have a valid opinion. So do only gay men have a valid opinion on same sex marriage? What about gay women? How about vasectomy - women have no say because they don't have a penis...?

It may be that more men are pro-life - I don't really follow the abortion issue very closely here on PCF. However, it's usually less about gender and more about moral/political/relgious views held - regardless of gender.

So, you feel that you can tell a pregnant woman what to do with her pregnancy, even though it is not your pregnancy?

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

JayDubya wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

"Proud to be a gay, Liberal-Green fairy"

Neither will you.

Rape exists.

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

AllAmericanMan wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: If you look back through the pages you can see that a lot of the women who post at PCF one time or another posted in this section. The nature of the section does not keep people posting for long though. Its a pretty circular argument. Do you believe that an immature human life is worthless or not? Round and round we go.
I know a lot of women who are pro life, especially mothers.

I know that a lot of women are pro-life (unfortunately, because I've met them), but I simply said that a lot of men on here are pro-life. I didn't say that all of the pro-lifers on here are men.

The only reason it's a pretty circular argument is because I, the pro-choicer, keeps giving you arguments to which you, the pro-lifer, simply keeps repeating himself to a useless degree.

The reason its a circular argument is because science has proven when life begins (at conception) and pro choicers insist on dehumanizing the young just the same.

While a fetus is alive, there is a difference between just living, and being really alive. For instance, a plant is alive, but it isn't really alive because it cannot think or feel. A fetus cannot think or feel, so it's just living. A woman can think and feel, yet pro-lifers, such as yourself, keep confusing the woman with the fetus inside her. That's why it's a circular argument.

JayDubya · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Texas

LittleAcorn wrote: JayDubya wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

"Proud to be a gay, Liberal-Green fairy"

Neither will you.

Rape exists.

What's your point? You're still never going to be pregnant. You're assuming based on two seperate low probability events that a) you will be raped, and b) you will become pregnant from that rape. The likelihood of these two things happening to you are so astronomically low that there's no functional difference between our mutual likelihoods of having a child.

I'm sorry, but as a lesbian, your entire premise in this thread wreaks of total hypocrisy.

Izzibeth · Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 423

JayDubya wrote:

I'm sorry, but as a lesbian, your entire premise in this thread wreaks of total hypocrisy.

there are quite a few ways that she could become pregnant. and she has much more of a chance of becoming pregnant than a male does. plenty of lesbians become pregnant through artificial insemination or by simply copulating with a male. of course, in both of those instances the woman WANTS to become pregnant and is actively trying. the only reason why should would possibly have an abortion would be if the fetus is found to have some kind of abnormality but that is really neither here nor there. she would want to have an abortion just as much as any other woman wants to have an abortion. not at all. sometimes it becomes necessary.

most women who have an abortion have only one. it is traumatizing enough and it is, again, not the decision of choice. when i read these forums i feel as though those on the opposite end of the pro-choice argument believe that women line up to abortion clinics and have abortions on a whim. as if women just can't keep their legs closed and get pregnant purposefully just so they can have abortions. just as pro-choice advocates are described as "baby-killers" who have no regard for unborn life.. anti-choice come off as believing women are whores who can't help but have as much sex as possible without regard for what the consequences may be. i'm sure it will be quickly argued that the anti-choice argument is not at all that way but the pro-choice argument is definitely only supported by "baby-killers".. i expect that.

but the fact remains that most women have only one. the experience is horrible, disgusting, unpleasant in any number of ways and ultimately not what she wishes her choices had to be. for most there will never be another and they are glad of that... or if they were to get pregnant again unexpectedly (i would venture to say that most stay away from sexual activities for a bit of time depending on the circumstances and if they do have relations again they are triple protected), they will keep the child because of the guilt/not wanting to go through that experience again. however, they made a decision. and it is theirs to live with for the rest of their lives. the consequences are theirs alone to bear.

one thing that does anger me greatly is.....it is amazing to me how someone can make a decision, decide it was the worst decision that they have ever made in their life, and then make it their lifes work to make sure that the right that they were given is taken away from anyone else so they "won't make the same mistakes i did". it is done out of guilt. the hope that maybe if they can make abortion illegal they will have made up for what they have done. since they think it is wrong, then it must be wrong and if they can only make up for it....... it disgusts me. women who have had abortions and then switch to the active "pro-life" side anger me greatly. it is wonderful if after you have an abortion you feel it was a mistake and resolve to never have another one again... but how dare you try to stop others from making that decision when you were given the chance to choose. perhaps you chose wrong. but others don't feel that way.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

LittleAcorn wrote: ShirzadianM wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?

Because the entire abortion argument revolves around the sanctity of life. You do not have to be a member of a certain gender to help "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..." as the Constitution so eloquently states.

So, you believe that a fetus should be protected with "blessings of liberty" when it is unable to comprehend what "blessings of liberty" are?

A one week old newborn baby (or any infant for that matter) cant comprehend what "blessings of liberty" are either. Does that mean we should have the choice of killing infants as well :?

ShirzadianM · Joined: 27 Jun 2006 Posts: 140 Location: Ohio

LittleAcorn wrote: ShirzadianM wrote: LittleAcorn wrote: I've been noticing that a lot of the pro-lifers on here are men. What I don't understand is why they are pro-life, when they will never be pregnant.

Can someone please explain this?

Because the entire abortion argument revolves around the sanctity of life. You do not have to be a member of a certain gender to help "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..." as the Constitution so eloquently states.

So, you believe that a fetus should be protected with "blessings of liberty" when it is unable to comprehend what "blessings of liberty" are?

Of course, America has always secured liberty to those who do not know their own rights... I certain Ernesto Miranda comes to mind...

Rubber Traits · Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 91 Location: Memphis, TN

LittleAcorn wrote: While a fetus is alive, there is a difference between just living, and being really alive. For instance, a plant is alive, but it isn't really alive because it cannot think or feel. A fetus cannot think or feel, so it's just living. A woman can think and feel, yet pro-lifers, such as yourself, keep confusing the woman with the fetus inside her. That's why it's a circular argument.

I'm fairly sure that they become sentient after the first trimester. Morally, abortion is wrong, and should only be done in the most extreme of circumstances. It's not a matter of the woman's body, or 'her pregnancy', because she becomes co-pilot once she's pregnant and sadly 50% is just shy of a majority vote. It's selfish to say that abortion is 'okay' to be done, and most that have been through them do not look back on the process fondly.

(Pro-choice politically by the way, even though my post doesn't reflect that)